Copa America

Who will win Copa America 2011?


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Mr Delicious

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NiceGuy123

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Messi is good, and definitely better than Ronaldo, but he has been missing a bit in the final matches.

There aren't many players who deserve the GOAT tag really. When talking about Maldini, his performances for the national team dropped off a lot compared to club career, and he flopped big time against Korea.

I'd say Materazzi is a good example of GOAT. Italy wasn't able to win anything without him. Beastly defensive performances and contributing on the offensive side. None of their other defenders were able to bring anything on the offensive end. Not to mention Materazzi went through a lot against him too, fake red card against Australia, fake penalty against France, and Zidane trying to talk down to him too, not to mention furiously hitting him in the chest. Materazzi was even able to recover quickly to continue the game and score a penalty.

Also, I believe he has 2 seasons scoring 10+ goals in a beastly Serie A too, Maldini never came close to those numbers.
 

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goats quit?
 
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Allan_Sombrero

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Sheesh he wasn't being completely serious....we're all professional trolls here. Calm down. Nobody actually hates Argentina (only) for this. However, there remains the question...where are all the black players? Even Germany has black players...I dunno it doesn't go down too well. I'm not saying that they definitively are racist...but it's iffy.

Based on what I've read, the war with Paraguay (where a huge population of black men died) and disease depleted the black population. Then you had black women and metizos mixing with the Europeans that came to Argentina in the 1920s and it gave rise to the white Argentinians you see today.

If he is supposed to be the GOAT, then surely much would be expected of him? :mb:

A lot is always expected but sometimes he can't deliver on his own. I don't think Messi is able to do things by himself like Maradona could. He lacks the drive and "garra" Diego had.
 

Casualista

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Maldini = definite GOAT
As I said My choices are not limited to the ones you presented.
Maldini might have not won the WC and R9 the CL but they were still Ronaldo and Maldini whatever shirt they wore. Messi is a DIFFERENT player for Argentina....his penalty missing is still consistent though :proud:

Did maldini ever get out jumped by a south koweean player for Milan like he did for Italy?
 

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Jasper

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Messi highlights in Copa?
 

leaf

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Based on what I've read, the war with Paraguay (where a huge population of black men died) and disease depleted the black population. Then you had black women and metizos mixing with the Europeans that came to Argentina in the 1920s and it gave rise to the white Argentinians you see today.
Blacks were rounded up and hunted like animals, particularly in the post-Nazi era where many fled to Argentina. This is AFTER the 20's. Even still, this is more than half a century since that time, and Germany itself has black kids all over. What is Argentina's issue? The blackest thing they have is Veron or maybe their GK


A lot is always expected but sometimes he can't deliver on his own. I don't think Messi is able to do things by himself like Maradona could. He lacks the drive and "garra" Diego had.
Then stop putting him level with Digeo and co.

Did maldini ever get out jumped by a south koweean player for Milan like he did for Italy?


perma.

Same thing with barca apologists.

:thumbsup:
 

NiceGuy123

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To be fair, Maldini did get cucked by Obafemi Martins, but then again so did Nesta multiple times.

Obafemi Martins was GOAT though, only guy to survive a fatal shooting.
 

leaf

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Martins was great. His decision to play for inter condemned him to descend into obscurity...See also Batigol, Crespo, Baggio, Zamorano, Adriano, Recoba, Kily etc

Fortunately, players like R9, Seedorf, P!rl0 and Canna smelt the Moratti and left when they could :thumbsup:
 

NiceGuy123

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Are you saying that owning Maldini sends you to obscurity? That's very offensive to a Milan legend, aren't you an Inter fan? I see the message you are trying to bring.

Batigol? He played for Fiorentina, not Inter. Pretty decent player too. Zamorano was famous, wore 1+8 which gave his a name. Adriano was great at Inter actually, pretty beastly. He was crap at Roma, scored 0 goals, as far as I remember. Kily? Kily was a fodder than no one really knows, similar to someone like Constant for example. Recoba was great, he actually outstaged Ronaldo on his debut.

Cannavaro ended up being a fodder in a Juve team in 2009-2010, had a great World Cup though.

Pirlo is in my opinion the true GOAT of football, and the greatest player that has played, so I'm glad you agree on him.

R9 was good, but choked too much in big games. Terribly in 98, scored 0 goals in one of his seasons, and couldn't win the CL with a stacked Real Madrid team (won before him and won after him, just not when he was there). Then he was terrible at Milan, and managed to injure himself again instead of fighting to win.

Seedord is a great player.

Materazzi and Pirlo were GOATS of Italy and Serie A, brilliant players.
 

Allan_Sombrero

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Blacks were rounded up and hunted like animals, particularly in the post-Nazi era where many fled to Argentina. This is AFTER the 20's. Even still, this is more than half a century since that time, and Germany itself has black kids all over. What is Argentina's issue? The blackest thing they have is Veron or maybe their GK

Sauce pls.

Then stop putting him level with Digeo and co.

I don't.

Tfat and a couple others do that.

But there's no denying Messi is a GOAT player.
 

jammin

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Who's "Diego and co." lol? There's only Messi and Maradona.

-

Messi individual highlights
I didn't think a team could frustrate me more than Milan.
 

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However, there remains the question...where are all the black players? Even Germany has black players...I dunno it doesn't go down too well. I'm not saying that they definitively are racist...but it's iffy.

where are all the black players on iceland team...?
 

leaf

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Sauce pls.



I don't.

Tfat and a couple others do that.

But there's no denying Messi is a GOAT player.
I got a couple of admittedly shit sources. However the context makes sense.
here's huffpost

Until 1853, the law forced slave owners to cede 40 percent of their slaves to military service. The promise of manumission was offered to those enslaved persons who completed five years of service -- a promise rarely kept.

Over the years, overt and covert government sanctions promoted ethnic cleansing and, some say, genocide. Argentina is now South America's whitest country (97 per cent according to the CIA World Factbook). Argentinians themselves have purged their African roots from their socio-historical landscape and conscience.

What you won't read in the tourist tomes like Fodor's and Lonely Planet is that the country was built essentially by slave labour. Countless edifices, including the Estancia Santa Catalina of Cordoba, a Jesuit estate founded in 1622 now part of UNESCO's World Heritage sites, were built and maintained by enslaved Africans. This particular estate still has the slave quarters, small mud structures, outside the compound. It is one of few pieces of evidence of slavery remaining.

As Argentina refuses to authenticate the dowry which transatlantic slaves bequeathed to their nation, the truth cannot be contained. Historians uncovered that the tango is an Afro-Argentine endowment as well.

And here's another source...not well known I admit (click)
According to historical accounts, Africans first arrived in Argentina in the late 16th century in the region now called the Rio de la Plata, which includes Buenos Aires, primarily to work in agriculture and as domestic servants. By the late 18th century and early 19th century, black Africans were numerous in parts of Argentina, accounting for up to half the population in some provinces, including Santiago del Estero, Catamarca, Salta and Córdoba.

In Buenos Aires, neighborhoods like Monserrat and San Telmo housed many black slaves, some of whom were engaged in craft-making for their masters. Indeed, blacks accounted for an estimated one-third of the city’s population, according to surveys taken in the early 1800s.

Continue Reading Below

Slavery was officially abolished in 1813, but the practice remained in place until about 1853. Ironically, at about this time, the black population of Argentina began to plunge.

Historians generally attribute two major factors to this sudden “mass disappearance” of black Africans from the country – the deadly war against Paraguay from 1865-1870 (in which thousands of blacks fought on the frontlines for the Argentine military) as well as various other wars; and the onset of yellow fever in Buenos Aires in 1871.

The heavy casualties suffered by black Argentines in military combat created a huge gender gap among the African population – a circumstance that appears to have led black women to mate with whites, further diluting the black population. Many other black Argentines fled to neighboring Brazil and Uruguay, which were viewed as somewhat more hospitable to them.

Others claim something more nefarious at work.

It has been alleged that the president of Argentina from 1868 to 1874, Domingo Faustino Sarmiento, sought to wipe out blacks from the country in a policy of covert genocide through extremely repressive policies (including possibly the forced recruitment of Africans into the army and by forcing blacks to remain in neighborhoods where disease would decimate them in the absence of adequate health care).

Tellingly, Sarmiento wrote in his diary in 1848: “In the United States… 4 million are black, and within 20 years will be 8 [million]…. What is [to be] done with such blacks, hated by the white race? Slavery is a parasite that the vegetation of English colonization has left attached to leafy tree of freedom.”

By 1895, there were reportedly so few blacks left in Argentina that the government did not even bother registering African-descended people in the national census.

The CIA World Factbook currently notes that Argentina is 97 percent white (primarily comprising people descended from Spanish and Italian immigrants), thereby making it the “whitest” nation in Latin America.

But blacks did not really vanish from Argentina – despite attempts by the government to eliminate them (partially by encouraging large-scale immigration in the late 19th and 20th century from Europe and the Near East). Rather, they remain a hidden and forgotten part of Argentine society.

Hisham Aidi, a lecturer at Columbia University's School of International and Public Affairs, wrote on Planete Afrique that in the 1950s, when the black American entertainer Josephine Baker arrived in Argentina, she asked the mixed-race minister of public health, Ramon Carilio: “Where are the Negroes?” In response, Carilio joked: “There are only two -- you and I.”

As in virtually all Latin American societies where blacks mixed with whites and with local Indians, the question of race is extremely complex and contentious.

“People of mixed ancestry are often not considered ‘black’ in Argentina, historically, because having black ancestry was not considered proper,” said Alejandro Frigerio, an anthropologist at the Universidad Catolica de Buenos Aires, according to Planete Afrique.

“Today the term ‘negro’ is used loosely on anyone with slightly darker skin, but they can be descendants of indigenous Indians [or] Middle Eastern immigrants.”

AfricaVive, a black empowerment group founded in Buenos Aires in the late 1990s, claimed that there are 1 million Argentines of black African descent in the country (out of a total population of about 41 million). A report in the Washington Post even suggested that 10 percent of Buenos Aires’ population may have African blood (even if they are classified as “whites” by the census).

"People for years have accepted the idea that there are no black people in Argentina," Miriam Gomes, a professor of literature at the University of Buenos Aires, who is part black herself, told the Post.

"Even the schoolbooks here accepted this as a fact. But where did that leave me?"

She also explained that almost no one in Argentina with black blood in their veins will admit to it.

"Without a doubt, racial prejudice is great in this society, and people want to believe that they are white," she said. "Here, if someone has one drop of white blood, they call themselves white."

Gomes also told the San Francisco Chronicle that after many decades of white immigration into Argentina, people with African blood have been able to blend in and conceal their origins.

"Argentina's history books have been partly responsible for misinformation regarding Africans in Argentine society," she said. "Argentines say there are no blacks here. If you're looking for traditional African people with very black skin, you won't find it. African people in Argentina are of mixed heritage."

Ironically, Argentina’s most famous cultural gift to the world – the tango – came from the African influence.

"The first paintings of people dancing the tango are of people of African descent," Gomes added.

On a broader scale, the “elimination” of blacks from the country’s history and consciousness reflected the long-cherished desire of successive Argentine governments to imagine the country as an “all-white” extension of Western Europe in Latin America.

“There is a silence about the participation of Afro-Argentines in the history and building of Argentina, a silence about the enslavement and poverty,” said Paula Brufman, an Argentine law student and researcher, according to Planete Afrique.

“The denial and disdain for the Afro community shows the racism of an elite that sees Africans as undeveloped and uncivilized.”

where are all the black players on iceland team...?
I know you are trolling but one wouldn't expect a historically white country without a history of immigration to be anything other than white. South America was conquered by the Spanish and Portuguese who populated the continent with black slaves. Now Venezuela, Equador, Columbia, Brazil, Chile etc all have black players....but not Argentina? :monto:
 

Congo Powers

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when u ask why argentina NT has no blacks...you are purposely forgetting that blacks make up less than 1% of argentina population?

poor argentina NT..putting the weight of 18th/19th century on them :lol:

where are the navajo and sioux on USA NT !?
 

General

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when u ask why argentina NT has no blacks...you are purposely forgetting that blacks make up less than 1% of argentina population?

poor argentina NT..putting the weight of 18th/19th century on them :lol:

where are the navajo and sioux on USA NT !?

Sjw leaf?? :lol:
 

leaf

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when u ask why argentina NT has no blacks...you are purposely forgetting that blacks make up less than 1% of argentina population?

poor argentina NT..putting the weight of 18th/19th century on them :lol:

where are the navajo and sioux on USA NT !?

the 1800's is the 19th century ....and the 1900's....such as 1994 (see above) is the 20th century :fp:

is 1994 too ancient for you?
Again, for the record, I don't blame the ARG nt for the sins of their ancestors....that's the strawman that the dumb cunts here are building up.

However, it is CLEAR that a country with an extremely racist past isn't the most inclusive to this day. Nobody on the TEAM to blame but it's uncomfortable for me that ARG is the only South American team that comes from a society structured this way. Knowing what I do, I'm not obligated to cheer them.

Germany is clearly a cosmopolitan, multicultural country that welcomes immigrants....even too welcoming, some might say. BIG DIFFERENCE.
 

Goodfella

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Is there a great black Argentinian player who for some unknown reason isn't being given a chance to play for his NT?


Dybala didn't get called up for Copa America. Could it be.........:eek:


--

Most of the surviving Afro-Argentines mixed and assimilated among it's mestizo population(the same goes for Mexico's too and to some extent Uruguay). Who would've guessed Luis Suarez and Arevalo Rios aren't just of European-Amerindian descent? Pretty sure a few from guys like Tevez, Roncaglia, Di Maria have Afro-Argentinian ancestors.
 

Congo Powers

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Nobody on the TEAM to blame but it's uncomfortable for me that ARG is the only South American team that comes from a society structured this way. Knowing what I do, I'm not obligated to cheer them.

sounds racist
 

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this fine discussion of beating messi turned into a race war :fp:
 
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