Ignazio Abate Thread

[Casualista]

bitch pls

lahm's horrible form speaks for itself.

 

[Senatore_M84]

to those comparing Abate and Cafu?

For as good as Cafu was offensively, Abate was that much better defensively.

Sorry if that's not what Nike told you, but Cafu was a liability, Abate is not.

At the same time, Cafu's attacking, and way he turned a game.... i mean he was first, and comparing him and abate in that phase is as ridiculous as comparing them defensively. Abate is miles ahead of prime cafu there

Depends what you want.

Like I said, theirs more to FB than attacking. Zanetti did nothing and was a fine FB for majority of his career.
--

Abate is an old school FB. Zanetti, Panucci, maybe Sorin etc.

Theres high value in a player like this. Just cause he doesn't play the way you want doesn't make him any less vauable.

You got a rock solid FB on right side. Enough said, move on... look to compensate his attacking shotcomings in otherways.

Out of curiosity...

Since the two of you see him as an average defender, what is it that you see happen, when an opponent comes down he's flank?

They see nothing but 'lack of a name'

FM culture.

Money obsessed culture.

"HIZ NOT HYPED. CANT BE GOOD" culture.

---


Abate does what a FB should.... i haven't seen a single player cut in on him all year.

I haven't seen him olay a single player onside w/ poor positioning (like ashley cole does at chelsea every other week, or antonini tends to do..)


It's pointing to a couple errors v. milito. One his first year and one his first game off injury where he didn't look fit.

It's pointing to messi owning him.... wow, fucking messi.... messi is one of best ever, not a shame.

Otherwise, week in, week out he's very sold. Was he troubled once v. Arsenal? For all the pressure and attack, no1 cut in on him, beat him. Not walcott, ox, etc.

--


Yeah he's got some limitations and holes. SO did Gattuso, so did a lot of players who were great for milan or other clubs. Whatever... he's very good at what he does and capable of playing in this side.

There's something to be said for knowing your role and not overexerting. I don't care if a FB "Can do more" attacking, when it leads him to positionally fuck up left and right. Unless he's seriously turning a game like Maicon could, it's probably not a net-positive on our team.

We got about 8 posiitons to upgrade before we get to RB.

 

[Sage]

I don't get it how daddy boy m84 keeps on mentioning money obsessed culture when he talks about me and abate is super hyped in this forum.

I don't share your opinion about this guy, I think he's average, why are you so butt hurt?

you used to hate on urby all the time and now he's performing well, people have different opinions.

 

[Master Smurf]

Please stop!!!!!!!!

Abate cant even carry Gary Neville's boots and you want to parse off to def to compare him to one of the best right backs and a WC winner. A guy who could run all day and what ever he gave up defensively supplied much more to his team offensively.

Abate is solid but no team on earth is going to beat down our door to buy him - end of.

I cant even say come back from the cliff because you are about 2 seconds from impact.

 

[Senatore_M84]

I don't get it how daddy boy m84 keeps on mentioning money obsessed culture when he talks about me and abate is super hyped in this forum.

I don't share your opinion about this guy, I think he's average, why are you so butt hurt?

you used to hate on urby all the time and now he's performing well, people have different opinions.

what does that mean?


money obsessed culture wasn't aimed at you... it was aimed at a billion people who literally suggest FM hyped players over him who aren't as good.

 

[Master Smurf]

Bonera is a better right back than Abate, he just doesnt have the pace to play there against anyone.

I didnt want to write that because it is troll bait but it is true. If a fullback was just needed to be one thing then any CB with pace would play there and your notion of old school is also wrong unless you are counting some sweeper system.

 

[Sage]

it's either me or australiano since vx7 asked both of us and you already associated me with dubai in the allegri thread when you called it fake or something along these lines.

I don't think anyone is stupid enough to take tips from FM or whatever to rate a player or need hype to believe a player's quality.

abate is nothing more than an average full back, if you refuse to believe that then it's your issue.

 

[Senatore_M84]

Bonera is a better right back than Abate, he just doesnt have the pace to play there against anyone.

I didnt want to right that because it is troll bait but it is true. If a fullback was just needed to be one thing then any CB with pace would play there and your notion of old school is also wrong unless you are counting some sweeper system.

Bonera gets outpaced, and players cut on him all the time.

Bonera also has positional issues, with holding the line.


These are two things Abate has no issues with, thus why he's a better RB.


Think about it, it's true.... when has a wide player of midfielder cut in on abate? Not since leo era.... and when has he been blatantly at fault for keeping someone online like Antonini for ex. I can think of maybe 1 instance.

 

[N3d0]

to those comparing Abate and Cafu?

For as good as Cafu was offensively, Abate was that much better defensively.

Sorry if that's not what Nike told you, but Cafu was a liability, Abate is not.

At the same time, Cafu's attacking, and way he turned a game.... i mean he was first, and comparing him and abate in that phase is as ridiculous as comparing them defensively. Abate is miles ahead of prime cafu there

Depends what you want.

Like I said, theirs more to FB than attacking. Zanetti did nothing and was a fine FB for majority of his career.
--

Abate is an old school FB. Zanetti, Panucci, maybe Sorin etc.

Theres high value in a player like this. Just cause he doesn't play the way you want doesn't make him any less vauable.

You got a rock solid FB on right side. Enough said, move on... look to compensate his attacking shotcomings in otherways.

Finally some reasonable thinking! Thanks for this bro! mASSter smurf should read this over and over and oveeeer again just to realize how dumb he is. Bonera at RB better than Abate hahahaha

 

[Dark Knight]

to those comparing Abate and Cafu?

For as good as Cafu was offensively, Abate was that much better defensively.

Sorry if that's not what Nike told you, but Cafu was a liability, Abate is not.

At the same time, Cafu's attacking, and way he turned a game.... i mean he was first, and comparing him and abate in that phase is as ridiculous as comparing them defensively. Abate is miles ahead of prime cafu there

Depends what you want.

Like I said, theirs more to FB than attacking. Zanetti did nothing and was a fine FB for majority of his career.
--

Abate is an old school FB. Zanetti, Panucci, maybe Sorin etc.

Theres high value in a player like this. Just cause he doesn't play the way you want doesn't make him any less vauable.
.

I agree on Cafu, never been a huge cafu fan. He was great going forward like R . Carlos but always always always a defensive liability. Never liked him that much because i want a defender who is able to defend but Zanetti is another class abate would be a legend if he was 80% of what zanetti has been.. Merda player or not the man is legendary. Solid defensively and offensively. Maicon was a beast too. Panucci was solid but not as good as Zanetti. Though IMO Thuram was better than all of them.

 

[Sage]

bonera better than abutte at RB? bit of a strech

 

[Master Smurf]

Did you miss the part where I said pace is his issue. Abate gets wrong footed alot but has pace to recover. Many times his first instinct is wrong but his determination gets him through. Reason why he isnt a top player and has issues at highest level.

All the "old school" fullbacks you named are infinitely better at attacking than Abate, so too is Bonera. He is conservative, gets the right depth and delivers a much better ball.

I think last season Abate was much better than this season and maybe needs someone in the squad to push him or maybe he has just reached his potential. Either way I have already said why he should stay as our starter.

My main issue was with your own hyping of him as an elite "defensive" fullback and then proceeding him to place him in conversations with great players. He is solid but severely lacking in one part of his role, that in itself takes him out of any class debate.

Needo - get a life, you just slammed players in the transfer thread because you dont like them. People disagree, that is the heart of this world.

 

[N3d0]

Needo - get a life, you just slammed players in the transfer thread because you dont like them. People disagree, that is the heart of this world.

I never slammed any player that I don't like in the transfer thread. I was just being logical and said why I don't think its a good idea to get certain player. Your inability to see that is your issue and think twice before you post. You just make yourself look stupid.

 

[Sage]

how is calling armero garbage at LB being logical?

 

[N3d0]

how is calling armero garbage at LB being logical?

Because any LB that can't defend is garbage. Add to that that Armero isn't really an LB, but more LM. I would say the same for Bale too. At LB pure garbage. LM - out of this planet.

Do you get the point now?

 

[Sage]

but you're wrong about armero being garbage at LB, it's that simple.

 

[Senatore_M84]

I agree on Cafu, never been a huge cafu fan. He was great going forward like R . Carlos but always always always a defensive liability. Never liked him that much because i want a defender who is able to defend but Zanetti is another class abate would be a legend if he was 80% of what zanetti has been.. Merda player or not the man is legendary. Solid defensively and offensively. Maicon was a beast too. Panucci was solid but not as good as Zanetti. Though IMO Thuram was better than all of them.

Well my only thing is this...

Cafu was a world class attacker. Maicon is, Dani Alves is...

if you're going for an attacking FB, they better be GO good at it, that you live with fact they are liability defensively (in maicon;s case less so, but in last few years he's made more and more errors)


Otherwise, i prefer Abate (who is rock solid) to one of those guys who attacks 'well' but defensively is vunerable like say.... nagatomo or grosso a few years ago.

Did you miss the part where I said pace is his issue. Abate gets wrong footed alot but has pace to recover. Many times his first instinct is wrong but his determination gets him through. Reason why he isnt a top player and has issues at highest level.

All the "old school" fullbacks you named are infinitely better at attacking than Abate, so too is Bonera. He is conservative, gets the right depth and delivers a much better ball.

I disagree on wrong footed thing. I mean he did a lot ofthat under leo, and earlier... but more or less last 2 years, not seeing it.

He also rarely gets carded anymore, which I think speaks to his growing defensive abilit.

@his attack... well as one of his first supporters i thought, his attacking would come around. I do remember his crossing from torino and empoli and it was good.

I figured well he just needs time to translate midfied crossing to FB.

even I've lost faith in that...

But i don't mind much since he takes care of defense first.

I think last season Abate was much better than this season and maybe needs someone in the squad to push him or maybe he has just reached his potential. Either way I have already said why he should stay as our starter.

Agreed. Since he came back from injury he was subpar...recently he's finally getting back towards last seasons levels.

My main issue was with your own hyping of him as an elite "defensive" fullback and then proceeding him to place him in conversations with great players. He is solid but severely lacking in one part of his role, that in itself takes him out of any class debate.

Agreed to disagree.

Zanetti's never been good attacker. He makes those runs but how many crosses or assists does he make? Almost none..... he runs forward and back passes.

Heck guys like makelele, gattuso never contributed going forward in midfield, still fine players.

-

I think their are few if any fb's who are more solid defensively. Most venture forward too much and it costs them. Abate, rarely the case...

 

[N3d0]

@Sage

But he is I just told you why. Please pay attention.

 

[Senatore_M84]

but you're wrong about armero being garbage at LB, it's that simple.

when have you seen him play LB?

He was a horror show for palmieras. Sven and australiano will speak to thart (actually they did posti t)

UDinese did a wonderful job seeing his talent and using it best, but eitherway its been as a wingback or straight wide left midfielder.

-


I like armero, but it remains to be seen if he's a LB in a 4 man.

 

[Sage]

I've seen him play a lot as a wingback, and his tackling/defensive abilities are good, even though I know WB and FB are different, but the defensive abilities are there to see.

you do know that players grow right? he's probably 5x the player he was at palmieras.


if a player with no talent what so ever like abate can do a decent job at FB, armero would be a monster after he gets used to it and gets the right coaching.

 

[Senatore_M84]

I've seen him play a lot as a wingback, and his tackling/defensive abilities are good, even though I know WB and FB are different, but the defensive abilities are there to see.

you do know that players grow right? he's probably 5x the player he was at palmieras.

yes but at same time, look at guys like Bale, Vargas etc.

Armero was a FB at palmeiras...and a bit of a horror show.


it's weird you think his defending is good, because honestly... asamoah and domizzi and danilo tend to cover him a lot. He rarely wins tackles compared to them or most other WBs...that's a simple fact.
-

and difference is positional... a lot of players struggle with it.

Simply put, overattacking, out of position etc. etc.

 

[Redman10]

It wrong on so many levels to have a comparison between Abate and Cafu or any of the legends I seen mention in this thread. You would think Abate is the best in world when in actuality he ain't even best in the Serie A. It probably debatable if he top 5? Hell, who rates him outside of Milan fans?

 

[Master Smurf]

Dont know about Vargas but the Bale one is easy, They had a competent player in Asoout Ekotto (know that is spelt wrong) so they just moved him forward and he didnt need to work on it anymore. Abate had no choice - it was work at it or Serie B.

Senatore - you would honestly prefer last years Abate to a prime Cafu, given our team?

Would you take an Ivanovic or prime Gary Neville over Abate?

I know the Italian mentality of you have to be secure before you go forward but sometimes the good can outweigh the bad and even the most secure can be breached or miss penalties - though sometimes they score them too.

 

[Redman10]

For such a defensive liability, I have seen D. Alves handle C. Ronaldo and Ronaldinho by himself. What I am getting at is guys like Cafu, Maicon, and Alves are world class attacker so they are always up-field but there defensively liability comes from being out of position which can be compensated for. When in position, they can adequately handle themselves defensively which is more than I can say for an inept fb that can't do anything right going forward.

 

[melanman]

It wrong on so many levels to have a comparison between Abate and Cafu or any of the legends I seen mention in this thread. You would think Abate is the best in world when in actuality he ain't even best in the Serie A. It probably debatable if he top 5? Hell, who rates him outside of Milan fans?

prandelli!

 

[Senatore_M84]

Dont know about Vargas but the Bale one is easy, They had a competent player in Asoout Ekotto (know that is spelt wrong) so they just moved him forward and he didnt need to work on it anymore. Abate had no choice - it was work at it or Serie B.

Bale was a horror show at fb. Didn't they not win a game for 2 seasons with him @ FB?

IT's not his position.. just because one works hard and can cross doesn't make them a FB is my point w/ armero.

He could become one... he likely wont.

Senatore - you would honestly prefer last years Abate to a prime Cafu, given our team?

Would you take an Ivanovic or prime Gary Neville over Abate?

Prime Cafu, sure.... i'd also take a prime maicon...

Ivanovic or Neville? Nah gimme abate...

I know the Italian mentality of you have to be secure before you go forward but sometimes the good can outweigh the bad and even the most secure can be breached or miss penalties - though sometimes they score them too.

All I'm saying is their really are only a handful of fb's who do this.

Mosty don't outweigh.

 

[N3d0]

The only RB who is slightly better than Abate is Maggio. But that will change.

 

[Kasoka]

lol @ underrating Abate. Guy does a good job since nearly 2 years and people still act like the grass is always greener on the other side.

Abate is the best RB in Italy, maybe Lichtsteiner is on par with him. Maggio doesn't play as RB on club-level and like i already said a year ago, i believe Abate will start at the Euros instead of him. Maicon's time is clearly over. He was the best in the world, now he sucks.

 

[BrasilianMilan]

The only RB who is slightly better than Abate is Maggio. But that will change.

Abate and Maggio are two of the best RBs in Serie A currently, no doubt about it

 

[BreadPitt]

God I love him....

Muntari and MVB as well....Such a family