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milanator

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Maybe it's a controversial take. But I didn't dislike Piolis 3-5-2. I only (massively) disliked his player choice in the starting line-up. Messias RCM!? No Leao despite soooo much space to exploit!? Calabria who's clearly physically out of form (couldn't handle Di Marco even a little bit) RFB instead of Saele? No Vranckx? Why did he hide Thiaw for so long and gave the space instead to Gabbia!? So many questions. Pioli corrected most of them in the 2nd half and voilà, the game became even. Why not just start like that?

I also didn't dislike our very conservative approach to the game. I know people say we gave away an entire half. But for once I agree that after conceding 3-4 goals in the first 45 minutes for four weeks straight, this time around it was more important to be compact and not concede, and only from then on to see what we can do upfront. Unfortunately, we conceded once again from a fucking set-piece, and it also has to be said that Inter was knocking on Tatas goal even before that. Which is not surprising at all when you try out an entirely new formation. The error was to wait for this long. It wasn't necessary to let it be the Inter game to try something entirely new.

Speaking of Tata. Great night. That's what I'm asking from him. The difference was evident: He kept the team in the game und bought us time to work a way out to at least get a draw with a lucky punch. We barely had this chance for weeks (if not even longer) because we were already three or four goals behind at halftime with many of them absolutely avoidable, even when the defending wasn't superb. But yeah, last night he finally delivered a performance worth of a goalkeeper, even if he's only the 2nd GK. But that's his fucking job. Anyway, credits when credit is due. He's also my MVP of yesterday.

Pioli has been working on 3-5-2 for some time now, albeit more attacking versions. We should stick with it now and try to build on it, ideally with some decentralized version that allowed to play Leao as a LF balanced by one player oscillating between RF and right mezz` ala like Pobega, CDK or Diaz.
 

milanator

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I don't have anything against 3 CB's man formation per se either but, fucking Messi ass as midfielder? Origi-Giroud upfront, with zero creativity in the mid?


And what was our plan, to defend and play on the counter with fucking Giroud? Brilliant. :lol:


The worst thing is that we didn't even defend that well, although we conceded "only" one goal, but Inter put a lot of pressure on us and easily created chances whole game (especially in the first half).
Giroud imo played for defensive reasons as well, since he helps out a lot with headers. It was full park the bus. Calabria and Messias were blunders, Calabria maybe makes a little sense on paper if the premise is to park the bus and go for more of a back 5 than a back 3 but he is clearly not a RWB and never will be. Messias really makes no sense.
 

brk

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That's the thing: is it just a crisis or a downward spiral?

If we are honest with ourselves, we realise that it is the latter. Pioli must have rested too much on his laurels since the Scudetto. The problems we have or the mistakes we make have been going on since matchday 1. Just remember how easy it was for Udinese to score from crosses here.

Pioli assumed he could continue with Bennacer/Tonali as before and underestimated the function of Kessie. His consequence was to pull the handbrake on Theo and tie him up more defensively. In doing so, he robbed us of a strength at the same time. I assumed he would push Pobega into that role. In any case, the statistics would have confirmed it, but Pioli sees him as much more attacking. In addition, there were certainly a lot of injuries, whereby one should not only put bad luck in the room here, but also question the role of the coaching team.

I personally had high hopes for the World Cup break because it would have given the team the opportunity to make adjustments - tactically/strategically and not on the Mercato. But what have we done in this break please, when our learning now is to switch to 3-5-2 while giving up completely offensively. One month after the break, mind you. This is a revelation by the coach, also considering the fact that almost all the players he played with were champions, and at the same time it might have been the oldest starting eleven of the last three years. Afterwards he stands up and says the team has to "mature"? I can't accept that at this point.

It would have been different to retain our basic virtues of the last three years and, if necessary, change to a 4-3-3 and provide more stability with an additional DM. Given the inferiority of our midfield in the Supercoppa, that would also have made sense. If Thiaw, Adli and De Ketelaere then play instead of Kjaer, Messias and Giroud, I can also halfway accept losing 1-0 and saying afterwards how we have to mature.
That brings me to my next point: the integration of new arrivals is worrying. What Pioli is doing with De Ketelaere and Adli is like a dismantling and we are well on the way to completely destroying assets here. That combined with possibly missing out on the Champions League would set us back years again.

Moreover, Pioli has so far failed to get the team back on track mentally after the collapse against Roma and the knockout against Torino. How long should we give him?

After yesterday, we can now attest to having the version of Pioli that everyone here feared with his attitude. Everything that could be credited to him so far is gone.

The coaching market, on the other hand, is interesting: Gallardo (!), Enrique, Pochettino, Tuchel...
It's clearly a crisis. We can fix this mess and get back on track once we regain our confidence. I'm 100% sure of it. What we built in the past 3 years was real, it wasn't a fluke or a mirage.
 

Hitchens

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It's clearly a crisis. We can fix this mess and get back on track once we regain our confidence. I'm 100% sure of it. What we built in the past 3 years was real, it wasn't a fluke or a mirage.
Some glimmers of this during the second half yesterday.
 

Kaka92

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I was hoping it was a crisis, but the reality is that I'm becoming more and more skeptical that we can get out of this shit.


Pioli has lost the plot, which he shows with every new game. And worst of all, it seems to me that he has lost players (and when that happens, the coach can start packing his bags).


You can make a tactical mistake, it happens, but when I see the body language of the players... it's worrying.
 

sheva

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I’m sick and tired of these clowns using Tata as a scapegoat when they have not been delivering themselves. Gtfo. I don’t care how bad Tata has been (he wasn’t yesterday fyi), you guys are also underperforming. Stop pointing fingers at him. It’s tiring

Fans who do that is also tiring by the way, Tata is not perfect and has many flaws of course, but scapegoating him ignores our real issues at hand, which are many. Those issues can’t be ignored.


half of the people thumbing this should be ashamed
 

milanator

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Why would we go for Enrique, he doesn't fit our squad and his not that great of a coach while probably being relatively expensive.
 

Ash

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It's clearly a crisis. We can fix this mess and get back on track once we regain our confidence. I'm 100% sure of it. What we built in the past 3 years was real, it wasn't a fluke or a mirage.
The signs were there last season too.

Everyone and their mother could make out that we were heavily dependant on our left side. That more often than not we were being bailed out by individual brilliance. I mean, what attacking patterns did we have?

Our entire gameplan depended on heavy pressing and countering. Easy to do when you have someone like Kessie in the midfield protecting the defense.

Also, it was pretty obvious that our main advantage was our pace, which is pretty key in a slow league such as Serie A.

But the thing is, all the above made this team and Pioli pretty easy to figure out also. And now when he has been figured out, the dude has zero clue how to adapt. It showe last season in Europe and its shown this season quite clearly.
 

Ash

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I really doubt anyone is in favor of Pioli staying.
As for me I only argue reasons & causes because Pioli isnt the main problem nor the solution despite the fact that he would the easiest way for a short fix.
At this moment, he is definitely the main problem.

And as you said, the easiest fix now is getting a new manager.
 

Nalim

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I'd say it's both sides.

You're right that the development of the league as a whole i.e. revenue increases, stadiums, etc is not going in a positive direction overall and Serie A can't compete with any EPL team. However, the quality of the teams in the league - the competition - has improved to a degree. It's no longer Juventus steamrolling. You had Inter win the league under Conte and spending money, you had our Scudetto run, and now Napoli cruising on a high. Four teams in four years it's looking like to win the Scudetto. Even the top 4 has actual movement in the teams aiming for a spot in CL, the likes of Roma, Lazio, and Atalanta challenging the other big four teams (Milan, Inter, Juventus, Napoli). The quality of players also seemed to have peaked - at least for the Milan teams and Napoli - the last couple of seasons. The issue is holding onto those players, as you've said. Even smaller teams like Empoli and Monza are showing some level of capability. Only 2-3 teams are really struggling but that happens in every league every year.
Competitiveness definitely makes the league more attractive to the audience, but it’s only a small part of what makes a football league a good product.

What’s most important is obviously quality on the pitch, which is where Premier League is head and shoulders above Serie A. The difference in tempo and technical ability is massive.

The refereeing is another issue. Serie A refs give away way too many soft fouls that ultimately ruin the flow of the game, which is one of the things the Premier League is lauded for.

The broadcasting product needs a complete makeover. The gap in quality here is immense. I know the issue of saturation was brought up here once to much ridicule. Nonetheless it is one of the things often mentioned by my EPL friends when I watch Serie A with them.
How come every match broadcasted from Italy is played in weirdly misty weather while for some reason Newcastle’s home games seem to be played in a tropical paradise where the sun shines even when it’s raining?
The coaching market, on the other hand, is interesting: Gallardo (!), Enrique, Pochettino, Tuchel...
I doubt any of Enrique, Poch or Tuchel would come without the promise of significant action in the transfer market.
Gallardo I know very little of. What’s his style and would he be a realistic target?
You are 100% right about the gap to the PL. However otherwise little has changed, German Bundesliga didn't manage to set itself apart from Serie A and is actually regressing since their short high 10-12 years ago. Ligue 1 has more problems than Serie A and is the only halfway realistic candidate to ever threaten the top 4 European leagues.
I worry only about the Premier League. Why did you become a Milan fan? I personally did because of the club’s success in the Champions League. In order for Milan to ever win another CL trophy we need to be capable of beating the English teams. So far from what we’ve seen we can’t even put up a challenge.
 
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milanator

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The signs were there last season too.

Everyone and their mother could make out that we were heavily dependant on our left side. That more often than not we were being bailed out by individual brilliance. I mean, what attacking patterns did we have?

Our entire gameplan depended on heavy pressing and countering. Easy to do when you have someone like Kessie in the midfield protecting the defense.

Also, it was pretty obvious that our main advantage was our pace, which is pretty key in a slow league such as Serie A.

But the thing is, all the above made this team and Pioli pretty easy to figure out also. And now when he has been figured out, the dude has zero clue how to adapt. It showe last season in Europe and its shown this season quite clearly.
Who hasn't been figured out though, its not like your career automatically ends after "being found out". If that was the case there wouldn't be a lot of coaching staff left. Gasp as an obvious example has been found out a long time ago, got schooled sometimes but overall still is an effective coach. Same for Klopp, Guardiola etc.
 

MilanFan89

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I think I never saw Milan not winning a single game in 7 games.
I cant even think about another team who did the same
 

voom

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All what Maldini should have done is to sign a proper DM . Without Kessie our defence has been exposed alot
He shouldn't continue with redbird ,it was mistake .
 

Nalim

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Who hasn't been figured out though, its not like your career automatically ends after "being found out". If that was the case there wouldn't be a lot of coaching staff left. Gasp as an obvious example has been found out a long time ago, got schooled sometimes but overall still is an effective coach. Same for Klopp, Guardiola etc.
Klopp changed his and Liverpool’s approach when he learned that your entire game can’t be based on pressing if you want to win trophies consistently.
What leagues have been dominated for a longer stretch by a team that gave up possession willingly? I can’t think of any. Maybe Juventus to some extent, but they dominated a league that was worse than it is today.
In order for a team to consistently dominate a league you need to be able to suffocate the opponent by not letting them have the ball.
Milan’s approach relies heavily on pressing in both the defensive and offensive phases. If not executed well we don’t create any chances and we allow too many against us.
 
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Curupira

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You know Inter rate him so little that they fucking tried to score from a corner kick like 3 times.

I've never seen a team attempt that so many times in 1 game and he actually fucking struggled. Made it look like a world class save :lol:
Interesting. And our defense just let that happen.

Finally someone else notices how many chances we concede on set pieces but the conclusion is because opponent “rate” our second choice keeper “little” :monto:
 

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Interesting. And our defense just let that happen.

Finally someone else notices how many chances we concede on set pieces but the conclusion is because opponent “rate” our second choice keeper “little” :monto:
how can defense stop a direct kick on goal from a corner?

they were shooting corner kicks like they were free kicks because Tata is shit.
 

Berlusconi

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Keylor Navas fucking went to Nottingham Forest on loan.

I'm a supporter of maldini but what the fuck bro
 

Berlusconi

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He shouldn't continue with redbird ,it was mistake .
Milan shouldn't continue with redbird. give us some real owners.

Where the fuck is dubai, qatar, saudi or whatever crack Boehly is on, we need real money. Fuck everything else.
 

Curupira

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Arrigo #Sacchi on #gds : "Defending at 5 #Pioli canceled three years of work. #Milan is no longer a team, #Inter did not play against an opponent but against a sparring partner"

Sacchi is a noob who didn’t get with the times. :o

doesn’t he know we constantly finished 1st and 2nd and our level & good work isn’t going to be cancelled in a short period :o
 

Curupira

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Yes, Sportiello is the key to stringing 3 passes together and learning how the build up and progress the ball. The door to extraterrestrial football knowledge.
You’d be surprised how many ppl believe that :LOL:
 

Curupira

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Hey remember when #positivityforce were boasting about how Napoli would collapse and Juve winning 1-0 all the time was lucky?

Good times
We dominated Napoli, who’s the best team in the league, bro.


Also, we were winter 2nd place this season, even if we finish 6th :LOL:
 

Cloren

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Yes please. We all know EPL is a corrupt as fuck league. It’s about time that their clubs get massive consequences. Not just Serie A. I want City to get the full brunt of punishment.
 

MilanBG

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Pioli is absolutely killing me. The guy is stubborn af but when he finally decides to change something he makes it even worse. Why can't he just field this line-up at least once:
--------------------------------Maignan---------------------------
Kalulu--------------Thiaw----------------Tomori-------------Theo
--------Tonali-----------------Bennacer---------------Adli--------
-----CDK----------------------Giroud------------------Leao------

It may not work, but at least on paper it looks much better than the super ineffective 4231.
 

Cloren

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Some light needs to be shed on this. If there is a locker room problem, why isn’t Maldini acting on it and getting rid of Pioli? Is this a joke or what? Wake the fuck up
 
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