The Rumour Commode XLIV: Paragliding to Piolistine Crisis

Rigore to save your life: choose your player


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Cloren

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And sometimes they don’t. Price for me is to heavy.

Even if we finish outside of CL spot at least we will have a bigger pool to choose from vs midseason like this.

Not really. We finished 6th and had to keep Pioli because “he salvaged the season”. We were one point away from 4th and we had to be happy with 6th place.

Chelsea can spend. We are going to haggle and try to find deals. Short stack at the poker table statistically cannot play as many hands, it sucks but that’s life.

CL knockout rounds? I think we are as good as done and the slim chances doesn’t justify the risks for me

What was our position before he left? Was it 10th.

And it seemed to be looking to go downhill from there. So I think it was an overall good decision cause we improved after a slow start with Pioli

I don’t think Chelsea spend much in January when Tuchel or Di Matteo came but I could be wrong, but I believe they mostly used the squad from the previous coach and improved upon. We spend a bit in this transfer and got decent players.
 

ROSSONERI7

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Hey bro, let me first say it’s an honor to get a response bc I feel like while we disagree we can still openly discuss our points, so really appreciate your essay :)

You are totally right. When things are bad my first thought is always how to not let it get worse, and that is definitely reflective in my thinking.

I don’t think I view action as “just do anything”. Rather:

If you are making best informed decision, then staying the course is one of the options too. If staying the course gives me a smaller chance for it to not work, then for me the best informed decision is to stay the course. Agree to disagree, but I definitely am not holding my opinion bc I view suggestion to change as “just do anything”

GP was a complete failure. By that point we had nothing to salvage, no player jiving with him. And we were sitting in 9th place (can’t remember off the top) whereas we are in 3rd now.

Better example is Gattuso finishing just 1 point outside of the CL the season before.

We went for the sexy upgrade who knew tactics instead of peasant who can only motivate. What happened after this? Ownership “punished” us by making more stringent requirements when it came to buying, renewing, and also manager selection. It’s what got us Pioli instead of Spalletti the first place.

And I listed examples of “proven” performers like Montella and upcoming ones like Giampaolo and Miha. So there is a realistic chance whoever comes in mid season may not be able to turn the tide, like Pioli didn’t his first season. Then we are truly back at square one again.

Not with a smile. But we aren’t there yet. And even if we end up outside of CL spot under Pioli anyways if we let him finish the season. It’s better to wait than do it mid season only to end up 5th anyways but you gotta give this new guy a shot bc “he came in mid season”.

I don’t really look at it as that considering we sold Tonali. People talked about net spending in previous season to show we were actually highest spenders, well then net spending isn’t +100m, rather closer to previous windows
The honor goes right back to you brother.
As you said, it always stays cordial, open and enriching.

I’m not gonna detail posts like you did, but touch on points.

* Again, I understand that it’s your mindset, which diametrically opposed to min. And that’s some points are just what they are, we view it based on your life philosophy.

I agree that not pulling the trigger could also be an informed decision, and I thought of that when writing, but for a “do something” guy like me, it’s the decision that 100% of “stay in shit and don’t do shit” people make…so it’s hard to decipher which is which…just like it’d be hard for you to differentiate the guy who makes informed changes vs the “just do something” impulsive guy.

However in this situation there is context. This has not just started. We saw it last season and he confirmed it this season. This firing is overdue.
I wanted his head since January-feb of last season…but, search my posts, I always said “let’s finish the season and evaluate”. I was even reluctant to say fire him.

* About Gianpaolo. You can’t compare by ranking, the level squad we had and the objectives to todays situation… come on.
We had fished 5th or 6th the previous season, probably only had an outside chance to make it top 4. A team lead by Montolivo and co?
Vs a team that is a loony the favorite to win.

There is a cool comparison. Since Giampaolo didn’t last long, it’s hard to even put him into this. So I’ll take that team of 18-19(?) which we know the level and they rightfully finished 5th point behind the leader.
Compare that to Pioli’s last year’s team, much stronger, not just one of the favorites but TITLE HOLDER, finished technically 5th, 20 points behind the champion.
With the level of those 2 teams, the context…last year is a much bigger
Disaster.
This season is not over yet, but I can bet good money that if he ends the season here, we’ll need a rival team to have a brand new scandal and suspension for us to make CL.

I don’t quite follow the Miha Montella Gattuso and co. I believe Here we’re talking of the season is not going well , making a change mid flight to try and correct things, That happened once under previous management and it worked….and again, only other manager hired by Maldini Massara was Gianpaolo and when it didn’t work they corrected it with the correct profile at the time…it could have not worked but it did.


*About spending. This takes us out of the context I mentioned spending. Tonali sale or not, they have spent the money + more on players to strengthen the team…
Let’s put it in context again
This stems from me responding to people saying as long as they get money from CL they won’t fire him. Effectively saying that $ is what they care about.
If that’s the case they could have kept that money and make it rain on J-lo.
All in all, they have spent money to strengthen and better or get close to what we did last season. Effectively generating more money but he doesn’t guarantee that as they seem to think and are mentioning that it’s the reason they’re not firing him.

I’m tired on typing on a mini iphone so it probably a bit messy. :lol:
 

Curupira

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What was our position before he left? Was it 10th.

And it seemed to be looking to go downhill from there. So I think it was an overall good decision cause we improved after a slow start with Pioli
If you want to look at it as going from GP -> Pioli then we went from 13th to 6th, sure no brainer.

But we had Gattuso under contract and he finished 5th one point outside of 4th the season before. So the little GP gamble meant we went from 5th to 6th, and we were stuck with Pioli instead of picking from a bigger pool on a clean slate the next summer. If we go by the arguments here that plenty of profile could have gotten more out of this current squad, then those profiles could have gotten more than 1 Scudetto and Semi final finish over the past 3 years as well.
 
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Curupira

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The honor goes right back to you brother.
As you said, it always stays cordial, open and enriching.

I’m not gonna detail posts like you did, but touch on points.

* Again, I understand that it’s your mindset, which diametrically opposed to min. And that’s some points are just what they are, we view it based on your life philosophy.

I agree that not pulling the trigger could also be an informed decision, and I thought of that when writing, but for a “do something” guy like me, it’s the decision that 100% of “stay in shit and don’t do shit” people make…so it’s hard to decipher which is which…just like it’d be hard for you to differentiate the guy who makes informed changes vs the “just do something” impulsive guy.
I hear you. But I can guarantee you as we slide down the table this will change, for me we just haven’t reached that critical point yet, like someone else mentioned.
 
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ROSSONERI7

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The example you gave of change “working” resulted us in 6th place. We didn’t go from 13th to 6th, we went from 5th only one point away from 4th to 6th and we had to be happy about it. If we go by the logic that surely a better manager can achieve more out of this squad, then who’s to say if we just gave Gattuso one more year we would have had more managers to choose from instead of settling for Pioli and would have got more than just a scudetto out of last 3 years?

If we finish outside of CL place anyways how is it an inferior option to wait and at least have a bigger pool to choose from next summer vs. a change mid season.

Keep in mind we are having this discussion as we are currently in the third place. You are saying I should evaluate as if we are already out of top 4 contention like we were with GP. If we reach that critical point, obviously the landscape would be different, it’s not like we have undeniable talent lined up.
Again like in the previous post… you’re making this comparison without the details and any context whatsoever. which completely falses it.

So Giampaolo leave us in 11th place, Pioli (and Ibra) come in, rough start, to be expected… then finishes 6th, qualifies for EL. Closes the season with a 13 game unbeaten streak …
Iirc we were said to have had the most points post lockdown(?).
He was breaking records positively back then. Lol
Was that also the season Ibra saying we would have won if he had started the season?
add to that the level of of the team then, how can you say it didn’t work. He successfully turned the season around.

Now you can use that and say Gianpaolo didn’t work, which we all know. but the in-season correction, of replacing him with Pioli “worked”

And when talking about Pioli, you’re talking of we’re in top 4 as if last season didn’t happen and this is not the same trajectory.

the other few members Pioli tasks force (not you, the one that sound like they’re trying to convince themselves), when they finally and rarely admit Pioli absurd decisions and choices, they talk of it as if those are isolated incidents…this is the 465th time he makes that same fucked up decisions since last year and he’ll do em again sometimes this coming month…they’re no longer mistakes, it’s how he does things.

I’m sorry my brain is not split by season. What Pioli is doing now, he did last season. And there is no indication he’d change…it’s established by now that it’s his identity.
Even in his previous jobs, he goes through lonnnnnnng patches of bad results. the kinds a team contending for their titles cannot afford to have. By the time you come out of there, mathematically you’re still in the race, but you know it’s over.
Difference is. they all fired him when it dragged too long. We’re the only ones who stuck through 1 and are in the middle of another.

If you want, We can come back to this convo when we’re 4th or 5th. 🤷‍♂️
 

brk

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Yees as someone who likes chants of curva sud i dont hear them as much as last season, enthusiasm faded from the derby game.
I mean we get to hear that weird swooping air raid siren anytime we concede possession...
 

brk

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The problem with that line of thought is that it's all speculative. Merda don't get 150 injuries to all their best players, so they will never have to play with so many injuries.

Milan are playing a style which constantly gets their players injured. You never see us have these same problems back when Sacchi or Capello or Ancelotti were coaching the team. Heck, not even Montella or Gattuso had these issues when our teams were god-awful.

In order to play better football, we are somehow coaching our players in a way that makes them get them injured. It's no coincidence that we have the most injuries in the league for 4 years straight.

Something is not right, has not been right for the past 4 to 5 years, and nobody has thought to fix things until THIS SUMMER.

Better fitness coaches? Better warm up, cool down routines? I don't know what the changes need to be, but they need to happen fast, or else this season could derail even faster than last season (January).
It's the playstyle (high intensity for long periods of uncoordinated pressing), high intensity training (many coaches commented how insane our training routines are), buying injury prone players, the schedule, forcing players back too soon and just plain bad luck (injuries to players in the same position at the same time.

Pioli has to go, most of these issues are his fault and haven't been addressed for years. Players have clearly given up, Theo especially.
 

Cloren

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If you want to look at it as going from GP -> Pioli then we went from 13th to 6th, sure no brainer.

But we had Gattuso under contract and he finished 5th one point outside of 4th the season before. So the little GP gamble meant we went from 5th to 6th, and we were stuck with Pioli instead of picking from a bigger pool on a clean slate the next summer. If we go by the arguments here that plenty of profile could have gotten more out of this current squad, then those profiles could have gotten more than 1 Scudetto and Semi final finish over the past 3 years as well.

Yeah that’s the thing. Giampolo was a gamble after firing Gattuso that failed.

Pioli was a risk taken as well that we got in the middle of the season that worked out since giampolo tbf to him got little time.

To me Pioli has gone to that threshold where I think anyone is better.

That’s how badly he has lost me. Because I think the current squad we have is the best squad he has had.

Our new signings are the ones playing well lately, RLC, Pulisic, Reinjders and even Chuk delivered yesterday. It’s our existing players that were very good before that aren’t delivering. Mike, Theo and even Rafa that seem to struggle more.
 

Cloren

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Fabio #Capello to Sky: “ #Milan with little quality and basic in his game. Without #Leao there is no one who creates and leaps man. #LoftusCheek passed away tonight. Also disappointed by #Theo : it seems overweight..."

About time someone calls out Theo.
 

BreadPitt

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Expect some b rated Italian journalist to say Pioli is safe for now the management has full faith

Spineless management Gerry is weak
 

ACM14061988

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Expect some b rated Italian journalist to say Pioli is safe for now the management has full faith

Spineless management Gerry is weak
It is too late we are out from the CL and the CWC, if Pioli had to be fired it had to be done earlier, now it doesn't matter, we won't miss top 4 we are just too strong to finish 5th in Serie A
 

IcyDiavolo

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I would not envy any serious coach that would be required to take over this mess as it stands. It doesn't benefit us or give them a fair chance of developing something solid. Saving us from a burning building is not on the hands of a manager we hope to keep for the foreseeable future, nor is it something they would even want to accept. Unless Abate gets promoted (which I'd rather not... let him work in peace for the fine job he is doing with the youth team), then its still likely a hold for now.

And honestly... at this stage, I couldn't care less about the performances we are putting out on the pitch. I just want the injuries to stop. This is 90% of the reason of the detriment to our team. I have no optimism left, but not because of the perceived quality of the team. There is no chance in hell any club can mount a challenge with bodies dropping like this.

No continuity / flow. Emergency lineups and subs every match. Players out of position. Raw players being thrown into the deep end trying to work miracles. Fatigued players preserving themselves to do their best to dampen the current crisis. Results aside even, it's completely demoralising for the squad. There's no clear path forward with this level of disruption.
 

Fusiproe12

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If Giroud had scored the penalty we would have won... and few minutes before he was alone in front the gk, he missed the ball lol

Then if Maignan hadn't behaved like a ****** we wouldn't have lost

Do people watch football?
How can the coach be responsible of this?

Too many injuries? Giroud (37) missed 1 game in the last 2 seasons
 

MilanBG

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What a shitshow. What started as good as possible ended up like a total disaster.
3rd minute - big miss by Giroud
5th minute - penalty
For these 5 minutes (crapioli's specialty) we were all over Dortmund not allowing them to cross the center and instead of taking the lead and setting the tone for the game Giroud took the penalty like a soft bitch and logically missed it. I will never understand this type of taking a penalty. You are a fucking 195 cm 90 kg striker and have the ball 11 meters away from the goal. Shoot like a man ffs. The whole idea of shooting like a bitch aiming to trick the goalkeeper to dive the other direction is beyond stupid. Send a bullet to his corner without tricking him and see whether he will get it. 5 minutes later Reus showed him how to take a penalty after capitano was embarrassed for the 5456th time this season against a fucking 19 yo benchwarmer with 1500 minutes of professional football in his life :fp:
Thiaw with another injury and now we will have to watch Krunic as a CB for the next 5-6 games :fp:
To make it even better Maignan had the worst game since he arrived. That third goal was embarrassing.

The positive thing is that despite having a shit coach, having countless injuries, having no game play we still put up a good fight in this group. All over Newcastle, pretty equal to Dortmund in both games (difference made entirely on converting) and a win vs PSG. Out of the 5 games there was just one in which we were outplayed, but when you press PSG in their box this is to be expected. With such an idiot at the wheel you should be prepared for humiliations.

A normal coach, great CF and great RB and this team will look scary. Until then we need to survive somehow with the bald idiot and some of his besties.
 

ACM14061988

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Thiaw had flu last week and missed some trainings but he had to play against Fiorentina because of all the injuries. Maignan played like shit yesterday but he had flu too and he has been forced to play against Fiorentina because Sportiello is hurt. It's like a dog chasing his tail injuries injuries injuries. We are forced to overuse the few players we have left and this leads to more injuries.
 

Fusiproe12

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It seems tifosi don't understand that if you can get young players for cheap that are competitive at maximum level is because they have some flaws... such as being injury prones... maybe
 

ACM14061988

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Also i rather not to think about we played our two most important games in the last few years without Leao, against Inter in the first leg and yesterday
 

Jivara

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We should sell Krunic while he still has value of +10m .. bring in a real DM .. I wonder if we can loan out Amrabat, how is he doing at MU?

We need a midfielder who can shield our CB and hold the fort, and pair him with a Tijjani or Adli who are better at advancing the ball forward , by vertical pass or dribble. RLC played great at AM vs PSG.

We also need a vice Theo because Florenzi there is not it. We need a strong CB to rotate with Thiaw and Tomori comfortably, get rid of Kjaer he is done. Kalulu when available can get more minutes at RB.

We need a proper CF but that can wait until we find the right profile we should be able to find solutions with what we have but we need a better coach for that.
 
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