The Rumour Commode XLIV: Paragliding to Piolistine Crisis

Rigore to save your life: choose your player


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Samaldinho

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Re: Miranda, I initially had a bout of depression because I thought we signed a bum as a Theo replacement. Not saying we're not, and anyone reading my posts in here knows I'd sacrifice a kidney to keep Theo until retirement, but it seems like this guy may be a very interesting and promising signing at LB.

I've been thinking a lot of the impossibility of our LB situation. Theo is too supreme for anyone to want to join as his second, but if selling is the way and Theo being open to leave after the Maldini sacking, maybe some promising Miranda showings next spring may soften the blow? If Miranda is very strong but not an eternal starter even on crutches, maybe it allows us to have two strong options and continuous competition.

Just trying to think within the scope of all that is possible.

And my kidney is here, God.
Maybe Theo becomes a world class CB in addition to LB like his hero Maldini and retires here at Milan and I can ensure Pioli never gets credit because in his last interview he said it was Theo's idea, no matter what else is ever said on the topic?
 

Hitchens

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Maybe Theo becomes a world class CB in addition to LB like his hero Maldini and retires here at Milan and I can ensure Pioli never gets credit because in his last interview he said it was Theo's idea, no matter what else is ever said on the topic?
This is my dream. Theo is basically the same talent but more offensively minded. As talented.
 

Hitchens

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Many things stimulate cynicism in our current Milan, the fear of hoping for lifelong legendary Milan contracts for players like Theo who you adore, and the sad thing is that he may disappear in two weeks in place of a Moncada algorithm orgy. And some people here will flip that instantly and point out how Theo didn't pull the entire team this season, but those seasons are expected in a long career. If this Milan means business winning the CL, Theo will be part of it. Hopefully with the armband in a white jersey. If you don't want this I don't think I like you.
 

milanator

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Problem with Müller is also that he earns a lot, he seems to be around 10-11m net p.a. according to most reports. He probably has to come to terms with a lower contract unless he goes to a retirement league, but he is not going to play for 3.5m like Giroud either probably. Especially in his current form he is not worth an Ibra wage imo.

Another problem is that you kinda have to play him as SS or CAM if you want to get the best out of him. Maybe RW but with progressing age probably less and less an option. So basically 4-2-3-1 or 5-3-2.
 

Ryo

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On Radio Rossonera they said the deal with the arabs might be something like

Elliott's exit and his "replacement" as financier. In simple words, a non-recourse transfer of credit, passing from Singer to an Arab investor (Investcorp or whoever) who, however, would not act as a pure financier but as a possible industrial partner. Maybe with an agreement like this: "Dear Gerry, I become your new creditor, and I value the club at 2 billion with its own stadium. I will pay you off the debt you had with Elliott and if you manage to get the executive project on San Donato approved , I'm not asking for your money back but for a share of the Dutch vehicle that controls Milan (ACM Bidco)
"In the meantime, here are some of our partner industries who wish to "sponsor" your club if you add their logo's to your website and maybe training kits."
:ibralol:
 

Samaldinho

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Problem with Müller is also that he earns a lot, he seems to be around 10-11m net p.a. according to most reports. He probably has to come to terms with a lower contract unless he goes to a retirement league, but he is not going to play for 3.5m like Giroud either probably. Especially in his current form he is not worth an Ibra wage imo.

Another problem is that you kinda have to play him as SS or CAM if you want to get the best out of him. Maybe RW but with progressing age probably less and less an option.
I have no idea if Muller has anything left in him, at 34, who knows? I haven't watched Bayern the last few weeks at all since he's been playing more often.

I also don't think he'll come here, MLS is more likely, if he doesn't retire at Bayern. Even if I don't like him, I would prefer him to retire there, out of the romance of it all.

But we also have kinda went back to our 4231. RLC is playing pretty much the same role as Brahim last year. So if Muller came, which I don't think will happen, that role is seemingly there for him.
 

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Curupira

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Re: Miranda, I initially had a bout of depression because I thought we signed a bum as a Theo replacement. Not saying we're not, and anyone reading my posts in here knows I'd sacrifice a kidney to keep Theo until retirement, but it seems like this guy may be a very interesting and promising signing at LB.

I've been thinking a lot of the impossibility of our LB situation. Theo is too supreme for anyone to want to join as his second, but if selling is the way and Theo being open to leave after the Maldini sacking, maybe some promising Miranda showings next spring may soften the blow? If Miranda is very strong but not an eternal starter even on crutches, maybe it allows us to have two strong options and continuous competition.

Just trying to think within the scope of all that is possible.

And my kidney is here, God.
I don’t think he’s a bum. From the scouting report you shared he seems like what we would want from a LB. But my point is he won’t be a finished product. He’s going to be inconsistent and have sus moments defensively. Otherwise he won’t be available for a reasonable price in the middle of the season barring some kind of fallout with his club.

Right now back up is either Florenzi and Bartesaghi. The expectation for Bartesaghi is to basically not fuck up, and for Florenzi is to be able to occasionally cross and occasionally send in a rocket that stings the opp keepers glove.

With him, at least we have hopes of him getting in a good position beating his man and creating some havoc, same as Ballo-Toure except FBT’s offense was a bit one-dimensional.
 

IL-Capitano

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Maybe Theo becomes a world class CB in addition to LB like his hero Maldini and retires here at Milan and I can ensure Pioli never gets credit because in his last interview he said it was Theo's idea, no matter what else is ever said on the topic?
It would be quite a story if Theo followed in the footsteps of the man who brought him to Milan. Theo may never be as great as Maldini but there is no doubt he has talent in abundance and will be remembered for making his own legacy as a player. Hopefully with a long career as a Milan player.
 

milanator

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I don’t think he’s a bum. From the scouting report you shared he seems like what we would want from a LB. But my point is he won’t be a finished product. He’s going to be inconsistent and have sus moments defensively. Otherwise he won’t be available for a reasonable price in the middle of the season barring some kind of fallout with his club.

Right now back up is either Florenzi and Bartesaghi. The expectation for Bartesaghi is to basically not fuck up, and for Florenzi is to be able to occasionally cross and occasionally send in a rocket that stings the opp keepers glove.

With him, at least we have hopes of him getting in a good position beating his man and creating some havoc, same as Ballo-Toure except FBT’s offense was a bit one-dimensional.
His contract expires in 6 months.

...

In general I find it a bit different to predict how FBs will evolve, if the inverted trend persist we might see more FBs with CB and CDM characteristics being sought after again and less winger characteristics. Arguably FBs have seen the most change out of all positions in the last 20+ years.
 

Alo88

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My point is that exposing your squad to these sorts of distractions are a consequence of Redbird's actions.

Actions have consequences. Tonali and Donna both got very different receptions from Milan fans when they came to San Siro, not because they left, but because of the context of what happened.

If we lost to a newly promoted side, that would be on Pioli and his team. Pioli doesn't need distractions to lose to relegation teams, anyway. The statistics around his tenure with injuries was laid out and was stark. His record against big teams in big games has become worse, and we are worse off points wise than we were last year (I believe).

I am not cheering on Maldini's words either, and while I don't want to speak on behalf of our enigmatic Scotsman I hope my high esteem for you is clear.

I just find the situation we are in, and those comments from Maldini, as a by-product of the choices of our management. Redbird were championed as ruthless corporate executives; and they have shown creativity, ingenuity, and expertise (so far) when it came to circumventing byzantine Italian regulations in identifying San Donato and purchasing the company developing that land for the stadium.

However, on the sporting side? I see lateral or regression. We have quietly returned to our 4231, while our injuries are worse. How you handle situations, like Maldini's firing, is just another example of how they are coming up short. There is a business utility in having manners, which is why I found the justification for his treatment as bad for business.

So the management opened this door, and that's the problem, because this isn't an isolated example of their processes being poor, but the latest in a series.

As of now, we're "only" 1 point worse off compared to last season at the same time. We're not (yet) that deep in crisis as the mood suggests sometimes. But the injury situation kinda worsening and being as good as out of CL does make it feel like we're back to loosing 5:0 to Atalanta and sitting 13th place in table :)

Also, I hope my high esteem for you is clear too :)

That being said, even Maldinis former team collegues called him out for choosing this exact moment in time to finally speak out. One of them being Costacurta, who usually is rather critical about our management. That's quite telling to me.

Also, I don't think the anti-Maldini-propaganda-machinery supposedly launched by Redbird has been this incredibly loud and vulgar as you make it seem. The Zaniolo and Berardi rumors were already there long before Maldini was fired. As a matter of fact, the tone in Italian press towards Gerry and Redbird has been way more hostile, both when he first took the majority and even more when he fired Maldini. The tone only began to shift once we started the new season with 7 wins in 8 games. Only then. And obviously, that wasn't the time for Maldini to strike. So IMO, what has been said or leaked to the press (some silly ass Pirlo rumors or Scaroni, whom no one likes and no one gives a fuck what he has to say) has had very little influence in all of this. Maldinis anger comes from how he felt misstreated by first Gazidis, Scaroni & Eliott and then by Furlani, Gerry & Redbird, and apparently during his entire time here. Which again, if you think about it, paints a pretty clear picture of how the separation was bound to happen sooner or later. Maldini, as he himself painted the picture in his own interview, seemed to be in constant battle with everyone at Milan.

And I'm not saying whether he was right or wrong. Only that the relations didn't seem to be nearly as harmonic as they seemed from the outside (and as I hoped them to be, especially during our Scudetto season). So... what to tell. Redbird could have handled the separation more smoothly and with more dignity, no doubt. That's on them. But I don't think it would have changed a lot. Maldini was already pissed af before that. Rightfully? Maybe. There will always be two sides of the story.

Also: Redbird has been championed as ruthless corporate executives? In Italian press? When? As a meme here in RnB maybe. Italian press rarely painted them that favorably. Only for that brief period when we were sitting 1st in table and Pioli hadn't begun his butchery with our players. Compared to the months and weeks of generating a rather toxic enviroment for foreign clubowners - for Elliott too - that's a rather short timeframe.
 

Curupira

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His contract expires in 6 months.

...

In general I find it a bit different to predict how FBs will evolve, if the inverted trend persist we might see more FBs with CB and CDM characteristics being sought after again and less winger characteristics. Arguably FBs have seen the most change out of all positions in the last 20+ years.
Depends on what his price is. Chuk’s contract was expiring too but still cost a pretty penny.

So Miranda is available for ~5m or so I stand by my original assessment. If he’s around 10-12m, then I suppose we could expect more from him.

But from the scouting Hitch shared, he’s definitely going to need to improve defensively
 

Alo88

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Well Scaroni´s words about being more united without Maldini and putting CDK on him have besically been indirectly confirmed by Maldini in his interview. He made a point about CDK specifically and said in essence that he didn't like Scaroni, Furlani, Cardinale and Gazidis and even complained about Elliot when they questioned him on his transfers. In an ideal world all sides should shut up of course.

I cannot recall any link between the Pirlo rumor and Redbird, maybe true but it is even questionable if that rumor would actually hurt Maldini.

Scaroni is an idiot. I didn't like how he painted Maldini a troublemaker. It was unnecessary. Scaroni simply is a man I cannot respect.

However, as you said, Maldini then continued to confirm in his interview that he didn't get along with nobody bar Massara, kinda, no? So... that doesn't necessarily mean Maldini is a troublemaker that seeked more power, but it's not untrue either that the management is more united without him. For better or for worse. That remains to be seen.
 

IL-Capitano

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As of now, we're "only" 1 point worse off compared to last season at the same time. We're not (yet) that deep in crisis as the mood suggests sometimes. But the injury situation kinda worsening and being as good as out of CL does make it feel like we're back to loosing 5:0 to Atalanta and sitting 13th place in table :)

Also, I hope my high esteem for you is clear too :)

That being said, even Maldinis former team collegues called him out for choosing this exact moment in time to finally speak out. One of them being Costacurta, who usually is rather critical about our management. That's quite telling to me.

Also, I don't think the anti-Maldini-propaganda-machinery supposedly launched by Redbird has been this incredibly loud and vulgar as you make it seem. The Zaniolo and Berardi rumors were already there long before Maldini was fired. As a matter of fact, the tone in Italian press towards Gerry and Redbird has been way more hostile, both when he first took the majority and even more when he fired Maldini. The tone only began to shift once we started the new season with 7 wins in 8 games. Only then. And obviously, that wasn't the time for Maldini to strike. So IMO, what has been said or leaked to the press (some silly ass Pirlo rumors or Scaroni, whom no one likes and no one gives a fuck what he has to say) has had very little influence in all of this. Maldinis anger comes from how he felt misstreated by first Gazidis, Scaroni & Eliott and then by Furlani, Gerry & Redbird, and apparently during his entire time here. Which again, if you think about it, paints a pretty clear picture of how the separation was bound to happen sooner or later. Maldini, as he himself painted the picture in his own interview, seemed to be in constant battle with everyone at Milan.

And I'm not saying whether he was right or wrong. Only that the relations didn't seem to be nearly as harmonic as they seemed from the outside (and as I hoped them to be, especially during our Scudetto season). So... what to tell. Redbird could have handled the separation more smoothly and with more dignity, no doubt. That's on them. But I don't think it would have changed a lot. Maldini was already pissed af before that. Rightfully? Maybe. There will always be two sides of the story.

Also: Redbird has been championed as ruthless corporate executives? In Italian press? When? As a meme here in RnB maybe. Italian press rarely painted them that favorably. Only for that brief period when we were sitting 1st in table and Pioli hadn't begun his butchery with our players. Compared to the months and weeks of generating a rather toxic enviroment for foreign clubowners - for Elliott too - that's a rather short timeframe.
Points wise there isn’t a huge difference but injuries are significantly worse and much sooner than expected and on a level that cannot be excused.

The thing about the press is it is their business to be hostile and they can often take it too far. Click bate etc.

However the character assassination of Maldini following his sacking was very full on and not just from the press but from people within Milan. Regarding the timing of his response he may not have been able to choose when. Perhaps he felt he had been silent for long enough was offered a one time opportunity and wanted closure in the matter.

The priority is now staying in the Scudetto race and holding on in the CL 🤞 if only for a little longer they will need the funds . Either way Milan need to finish this season as well as possible.
 

Curupira

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Points wise there isn’t a huge difference but injuries are significantly worse and much sooner than expected and on a level that cannot be excused.

The thing about the press is it is their business to be hostile and they can often take it too far. Click bate etc.

However the character assassination of Maldini following his sacking was very full on and not just from the press but from people within Milan. Regarding the timing of his response he may not have been able to choose when. Perhaps he felt he had been silent for long enough was offered a one time opportunity and wanted closure in the matter.

The priority is now staying in the Scudetto race and holding on in the CL 🤞 if only for a little longer they will need the funds . Either way Milan need to finish this season as well as possible.
signs Origi and Cdk

Then when questioned saying “if I wanted a stronger line up I would have made different choices on the market”

Then goes on tv “we need to be smart and understand the moment now and invest”.

This isn’t character assasination? Fucking up the transfer choices and asking owners to spend more. Owner should just be silent and let their employees do this?
 

Samaldinho

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As of now, we're "only" 1 point worse off compared to last season at the same time. We're not (yet) that deep in crisis as the mood suggests sometimes. But the injury situation kinda worsening and being as good as out of CL does make it feel like we're back to loosing 5:0 to Atalanta and sitting 13th place in table :)

Also, I hope my high esteem for you is clear too :)

That being said, even Maldinis former team collegues called him out for choosing this exact moment in time to finally speak out. One of them being Costacurta, who usually is rather critical about our management. That's quite telling to me.

Also, I don't think the anti-Maldini-propaganda-machinery supposedly launched by Redbird has been this incredibly loud and vulgar as you make it seem. The Zaniolo and Berardi rumors were already there long before Maldini was fired. As a matter of fact, the tone in Italian press towards Gerry and Redbird has been way more hostile, both when he first took the majority and even more when he fired Maldini. The tone only began to shift once we started the new season with 7 wins in 8 games. Only then. And obviously, that wasn't the time for Maldini to strike. So IMO, what has been said or leaked to the press (some silly ass Pirlo rumors or Scaroni, whom no one likes and no one gives a fuck what he has to say) has had very little influence in all of this. Maldinis anger comes from how he felt misstreated by first Gazidis, Scaroni & Eliott and then by Furlani, Gerry & Redbird, and apparently during his entire time here. Which again, if you think about it, paints a pretty clear picture of how the separation was bound to happen sooner or later. Maldini, as he himself painted the picture in his own interview, seemed to be in constant battle with everyone at Milan.

And I'm not saying whether he was right or wrong. Only that the relations didn't seem to be nearly as harmonic as they seemed from the outside (and as I hoped them to be, especially during our Scudetto season). So... what to tell. Redbird could have handled the separation more smoothly and with more dignity, no doubt. That's on them. But I don't think it would have changed a lot. Maldini was already pissed af before that. Rightfully? Maybe. There will always be two sides of the story.

Also: Redbird has been championed as ruthless corporate executives? In Italian press? When? As a meme here in RnB maybe. Italian press rarely painted them that favorably. Only for that brief period when we were sitting 1st in table and Pioli hadn't begun his butchery with our players. Compared to the months and weeks of generating a rather toxic enviroment for foreign clubowners - for Elliott too - that's a rather short timeframe.
My priority is the CL, and being out of the group stages (most likely) is a travesty for me. Yes, it was a very difficult group, but still I think we should have progressed out of it. Our injury situation has gotten progressively worse each year, which is the other huge concern.

However, I don't think that Redbird made the massive changes they made to be worse off than last year, or even equal to where they were last year, wouldn't you agree?

As far as Billy questioning Maldini's timing, there was also Tassotti who sided with Maldini--so I'll disagree with you on the significance of Billy's comments.

It has been vulgar, they talked about him being drunk with power, and it wasn't about Zaniolo or Berardi, but also about players like Arnautovic. I also think you are dismissing the Pirlo rumors too quickly, they were widely disseminated, and then there were Furlani's comments about how they wanted Dybala instead of CDK. They piled on Maldini, they made sure to make him look foolish, especially pinning CDK on Maldini, despite the wide reporting about Moncada being enamored with CDK and pushing for his transfer.

Remember when RLC was pinned as a Maldini example of disaster, that talks ended once Maldini got fired, and there was wide mocking of RLC as a viable option in Maldini's mind? Then RLC signed with us, it was a great illustration of partisanship over substance.

I do not look at Maldini's comments as some sort of vindication of him. There are things in there that don't make him look great, but I read that as him being more honest about the situation, even to his detriment.

I see dysfunction from Redbird, that's the centerpiece of my issue.

I have read many editorials from Serafini and comments from Suma (among others) about how great Redbird are, so I'm not sure if things were as difficult as you make them out to be. The transfer market was praised endlessly this summer, with maybe some sour grapes with the Taremi/Jovic saga at the end.

At the end of the day, if you're going to fire Maldini, sell Tonali, and give an interview where you say you want to be "Berlusconi 2.0" then you have to perform. They haven't.

I look at Maldini hitting them like this as blowback from their terrible strategy in dealing with him--and again, I'm saying: okay, let's say Maldini was a problem. Cool. Why are we not seeing anything change? We haven't.

All summer we heard about the new 433 and how Pioli got players that match his philosophy, more harmony from Scaroni, and we're seeing players yell at the coach, we're still dropping points, we've returned to the 4231, all the work in the summer with inverted FBs and whatever was abandoned a while ago, and our injuries are worse than ever before.

To me, it looks like Redbird have made the wrong choices, sporting-wise, often. That concerns me, long-term.
 

IL-Capitano

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signs Origi and Cdk

Then when questioned saying “if I wanted a stronger line up I would have made different choices on the market”

Then goes on tv “we need to be smart and understand the moment now and invest”.

This isn’t character assasination? Fucking up the transfer choices and asking owners to spend more. Owner should just be silent and let their employees do this?
Could the same not be said of some of the newest signings ? Milan were supposed to be cruising due to a slicker more calculated formula but it is not the case.
 

Curupira

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Could the same not be said of some of the newest signings ? Milan were supposed to be cruising due to a slicker more calculated formula but it is not the case.
Did person responsible go on TV say we need to spend more?
 

IL-Capitano

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Did person responsible go on TV say we need to spend more?
Yes and no one ever stated Maldini did a perfect job, I cannot think of a SD who has ever been flawless.
 

Curupira

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Yes and no one ever stated Maldini did a perfect job, I cannot think of a SD who has ever been flawless.
typical Maldini fan spin, as always.

Makes a claim about Paulo getting his character assasinated by the ownership to justify him taking a major dump on Milan

Gets example of Paulo going out of the channel to make ownership look bad when he’s made mistakes (character assasination)

“Well new management also signed players who don’t work out” (again absolutely 0 to do with original comment)

- yea but new management didn’t go on the news

“Nobody said Maldini is perfect, nobody is perfect” (once again, completely irrelevant)

:LOL:
 
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Samaldinho

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Points wise there isn’t a huge difference but injuries are significantly worse and much sooner than expected and on a level that cannot be excused.

The thing about the press is it is their business to be hostile and they can often take it too far. Click bate etc.

However the character assassination of Maldini following his sacking was very full on and not just from the press but from people within Milan. Regarding the timing of his response he may not have been able to choose when. Perhaps he felt he had been silent for long enough was offered a one time opportunity and wanted closure in the matter.

The priority is now staying in the Scudetto race and holding on in the CL 🤞 if only for a little longer they will need the funds . Either way Milan need to finish this season as well as possible.
The interesting part about Redbird's gripes with Maldini is that Gerry could have just let Maldini and Massara's contracts expire when they took over. Moncada was there, you didn't even have to fire them, could have just let their contracts expire.
 

milanator

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I don't get why Redbird needs to see improvement within like 3 months just because they had a big market and kicked out Maldini. A big portion of those transfers was necessary to keep a level somewhere between last season and scudetto season, I mean a Rebic wasn't serviceable anymore for example for example. It is a big difference if you sign Okafor to have a player who can offer what Rebic used to or if you still have a 2021 Rebic and buy Okafor on top.

The interesting part about Redbird's gripes with Maldini is that Gerry could have just let Maldini and Massara's contracts expire when they took over. Moncada was there, you didn't even have to fire them, could have just let their contracts expire.
Prior to all the dirty laundry the consensus was that they gave Maldini a shot to do things more his way and also raised his responsibility. That still makes more sense than Redbird flat out doesn't like Maldini but was playing 4D chess to get rid of him.
 
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milanator

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If I had to guess tensions between Redbird and Maldini probably also stem from what Maldini didn't do. Maldini had more of a buy and hold approach with players, while the new management showed more willingness to trade and leverage. Elliot probably didn't care so much about that because they wanted to sell the club within a couple of years anyway , for Redbird it makes a much bigger difference, in terms of using the "hidden reserves" alone.
 

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If you don't appreciate Thomas Muller I don't know what to tell you.

At times he's been in the world top 10, and a stable performer over a decade and a half. Would love to welcome a champion like him, even though I find Germans mostly weird and him certainly in the upper echelon of weirdness.

The experienced leader types we've chosen have done well. Although this link might be bullshit, I've always appreciated his professionalism.

I want Thomas Muller in my team. He’d do well.
 
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