The Rumour Commode XLIV: Paragliding to Piolistine Crisis

Rigore to save your life: choose your player


  • Total voters
    103

IL-Capitano

Legenda di AC Milan
Joined
Jan 13, 2009
Messages
4,997
Reaction score
8,197
Fav. Players
too many great players to list but if pushed all time favorite player: Maldini
typical Maldini fan spin, as always.

Makes a claim about Paulo getting his character assasinated by the ownership to justify him taking a major dump on Milan

Gets example of Paulo going out of the channel to make ownership look bad when he’s made mistakes (character assasination)

“Well new management also signed players who don’t work out” (again absolutely 0 to do with original comment)

- yea but new management didn’t go on the news

“Nobody said Maldini is perfect, nobody is perfect” (once again, completely irrelevant)

:LOL:
IMG_0914.gif
Thank you 🙏
 

Cloren

Milan Legend
Joined
Nov 13, 2016
Messages
8,564
Reaction score
33,963
Fav. Players
Roger Federer is the GOAT
Carlo Ancelotti is the greatest coach of all time.
 

Samaldinho

Milan Legend
Joined
May 22, 2012
Messages
28,835
Reaction score
68,329
I don't get why Redbird needs to see improvement within like 3 months just because they had a big market and kicked out Maldini. A big portion of those transfers was necessary to keep a level somewhere between last season and scudetto season, I mean a Rebic wasn't serviceable anymore for example for example. It is a big difference if you sign Okafor to have a player who can offer what Rebic used to or if you still have a 2021 Rebic and buy Okafor on top.
If they win the CL, they'll be able to dunk on Maldini all day.

Maybe the injury situation clears up--well it won't anytime soon because Thiaw and Kalulu both have long-term muscular injuries and we have to bring in CBs in January--but let's say we get everyone back, Jovic becomes Sheva, Chuk is Salah, and Pellegrino is the next Baresi, and we crush everyone. Redbird can talk shit all they want.

However, as things stands, it looks like we are more-or-less on the same trajectory that was put on Maldini's shoulders for CDK and company. That's why there is anxiety among fans.

Maldini didn't have to say a word to make people annoyed at what is happening. Pioli did that himself with injuries and dropping points from winning positions, or losing to teams that hadn't won a single game yet before meeting him.

Prior to all the dirty laundry the consensus was that they gave Maldini a shot to do things more his way and also raised his responsibility. That still makes more sense than Redbird flat out doesn't like Maldini but was playing 4D chess to get rid of him.
Consensus from who? Maldini is being tagged with Origi, fine, I hated that move. But he's also being saddled with CDK, widely reported to be Moncada's darling (even by Maldini's biggest critics) so what does it seem like Maldini was given... extra?

Honestly, I don't think his role changed that much since he took over from Leonardo. Based on his interview, it doesn't seem like there was this gargantuan shift. Maldini's interview has forced me to reconsider whether Maldini wanted to fire Pioli, it seems that wasn't on the cards. This bothers me.

I also think signings like Leao--many of said it was Boban's idea--Bennacer, etc were the results of the group. Maybe Theo can be attributed more to Maldini? Or maybe he just closed the deal? All organizations have stories where one executive pushed for X player. Galliani had those stories, Perez does, everyone does. Every SD in the world talks about how they pushed for player Y and he became a superstar. They probably also pushed for player A, who became a bum, lol, but don't talk about it.

If Maldini didn't have control over signings, then why would Elliott be upset with Leao, Theo, and Bennacer? Or is Maldini lying about that? Maybe Elliott were mad about Giampaolo? Rightly so, Giampaolo was genuinely the worst coach I've ever seen at Milan. Genuinely.

However, when discussing Maldini, it is supposedly all about his last year. When he was in charge. Okay. We got to the CL semi-final, the last time we got to a semi-final was 2007. Or is that Pioli's achievement? We got 4th, or 5th--is it 4th and thus meeting the Redbird minimum? Or was it 5th and saved by Juve? When does Pioli get responsibility for losing to relegation teams at fucking up 4th place and losing out a top 4 spot to Lazio?

This is all a game over where you allot the blame for what went poorly and where you allot the praise for what went well.

We haven't seen Maldini as a director of another club, not yet. Maybe he is the next great SD? Maybe he's the next Mirabelli? We don't know yet.

We are seeing Pioli continue as our manager without Maldini, however, and we are seeing many of the same problems, whilst seeing new ones emerge, as well.

Ultimately it's about where we deem the percentage of blame goes most. I personally put more blame on Pioli than Maldini for last year.
 

Curupira

Milan Legend
Joined
Aug 2, 2010
Messages
37,773
Reaction score
62,742

Papa_midnight

Primavera
Joined
May 28, 2019
Messages
214
Reaction score
570

Cloren

Milan Legend
Joined
Nov 13, 2016
Messages
8,564
Reaction score
33,963
Fav. Players
Roger Federer is the GOAT
He'd be out injured 6 months from 12 with this staff and butcher fake Pep. He's 34.

How old was IbraGOD and Giroud when they came here? We need some experience and leaders in this team.
 

Ash-ish

Milan Legend
Joined
May 23, 2022
Messages
5,717
Reaction score
2,656
Fav. Players
R9, 3, Nesta, Gattuso, B&G, Rui Costa
If Italians can’t own this club just hibernate the club like Seattle Sonics :o
 

milanator

Milan Legend
Joined
Sep 3, 2010
Messages
7,453
Reaction score
4,389
Location
Austria
If they win the CL, they'll be able to dunk on Maldini all day.

Maybe the injury situation clears up--well it won't anytime soon because Thiaw and Kalulu both have long-term muscular injuries and we have to bring in CBs in January--but let's say we get everyone back, Jovic becomes Sheva, Chuk is Salah, and Pellegrino is the next Baresi, and we crush everyone. Redbird can talk shit all they want.

However, as things stands, it looks like we are more-or-less on the same trajectory that was put on Maldini's shoulders for CDK and company. That's why there is anxiety among fans.

Maldini didn't have to say a word to make people annoyed at what is happening. Pioli did that himself with injuries and dropping points from winning positions, or losing to teams that hadn't won a single game yet before meeting him.


Consensus from who? Maldini is being tagged with Origi, fine, I hated that move. But he's also being saddled with CDK, widely reported to be Moncada's darling (even by Maldini's biggest critics) so what does it seem like Maldini was given... extra?

Honestly, I don't think his role changed that much since he took over from Leonardo. Based on his interview, it doesn't seem like there was this gargantuan shift. Maldini's interview has forced me to reconsider whether Maldini wanted to fire Pioli, it seems that wasn't on the cards. This bothers me.

I also think signings like Leao--many of said it was Boban's idea--Bennacer, etc were the results of the group. Maybe Theo can be attributed more to Maldini? Or maybe he just closed the deal? All organizations have stories where one executive pushed for X player. Galliani had those stories, Perez does, everyone does. Every SD in the world talks about how they pushed for player Y and he became a superstar. They probably also pushed for player A, who became a bum, lol, but don't talk about it.

If Maldini didn't have control over signings, then why would Elliott be upset with Leao, Theo, and Bennacer? Or is Maldini lying about that? Maybe Elliott were mad about Giampaolo? Rightly so, Giampaolo was genuinely the worst coach I've ever seen at Milan. Genuinely.

However, when discussing Maldini, it is supposedly all about his last year. When he was in charge. Okay. We got to the CL semi-final, the last time we got to a semi-final was 2007. Or is that Pioli's achievement? We got 4th, or 5th--is it 4th and thus meeting the Redbird minimum? Or was it 5th and saved by Juve? When does Pioli get responsibility for losing to relegation teams at fucking up 4th place and losing out a top 4 spot to Lazio?

This is all a game over where you allot the blame for what went poorly and where you allot the praise for what went well.

We haven't seen Maldini as a director of another club, not yet. Maybe he is the next great SD? Maybe he's the next Mirabelli? We don't know yet.

We are seeing Pioli continue as our manager without Maldini, however, and we are seeing many of the same problems, whilst seeing new ones emerge, as well.

Ultimately it's about where we deem the percentage of blame goes most. I personally put more blame on Pioli than Maldini for last year.
With another window like the last one we wouldn't be at over 2 points per game, which isn't even bad at all. We are roughly were this squad should be, without the summer window the likes of Napoli, Roma might have much more of a shot at us. Edit: I mean Roma now have Dybala and Lukaku, sure Pioli is an advantage over current Mou as well but without adding the likes of Pulisic, Reijnders, RLC this gets pretty close fast.

Maldini in his interview defended CDK like it was his idea, I mean not 100% proof but certainly also not a disproval, though he might just take general responsibility. I personally always thought we overpaid significantly for CDK. CDK is a case were that can be said somewhat objectively since he had weak stats for the kind of league he played in and went for a record sum. I don't think it is unfair to say that Maldini´s last summer was holding the squad and Pioli back, at the same time he also has to get credit for building the squad before. I don't have a problem praising and criticizing him at the same time here.

Maldini surely had a lot of power in signings, what I meant is not his role but how he signed and was allowed to sign players. Something that points in that direction are his comments on the algorithms for example. Also Maldini usually preferred a low turnover strategy which isn't necessarily good or bad in itself but could be a factor in itself. I think that Redbird wasn't convinced by him but gave him a shot because they respected his achievements or - if you are more pessimistic - gave it a shot because they hoped he would be good for them as well.
 
Last edited:

MilanBG

Milan Legend
Joined
May 25, 2011
Messages
8,683
Reaction score
15,448
what exactly are you insinuating? Onana always had the talent but United is a graveyard for any player .. Sommer has always been class
Onana has one of the longest and funniest blunder compilations you can find in the whole history of football. Just in his first 2 games for United he delivered 2 or 3 blunders and delivers steadily almost every game. Nothing like his merda days in which he looked like a top 3 GK in the world.
Sommer has always been decent, but I wouldn't call him class. If he was so good he wouldn't have spent 10 years in Gladbach.
 

MilanBG

Milan Legend
Joined
May 25, 2011
Messages
8,683
Reaction score
15,448
So Chucky is the big flop. This years CDK.
Last night I watched the game against Frosinone because I couldn't do it live and I have to say that Chukwueze did much better than what I expected judging by the comments in the match thread :lol: Yeah, he lost the ball like a million times but was very involved with the play and did a shit ton of work in defense. Definitely needs a lot of work, but he is not as horrendous as he was in the first 4-5 games. I see a small but steady growth with each game.
 

Alo88

Milan Legend
Joined
Nov 28, 2013
Messages
16,352
Reaction score
26,943
Location
Switzerland
My priority is the CL, and being out of the group stages (most likely) is a travesty for me. Yes, it was a very difficult group, but still I think we should have progressed out of it. Our injury situation has gotten progressively worse each year, which is the other huge concern.

However, I don't think that Redbird made the massive changes they made to be worse off than last year, or even equal to where they were last year, wouldn't you agree?

As far as Billy questioning Maldini's timing, there was also Tassotti who sided with Maldini--so I'll disagree with you on the significance of Billy's comments.

It has been vulgar, they talked about him being drunk with power, and it wasn't about Zaniolo or Berardi, but also about players like Arnautovic. I also think you are dismissing the Pirlo rumors too quickly, they were widely disseminated, and then there were Furlani's comments about how they wanted Dybala instead of CDK. They piled on Maldini, they made sure to make him look foolish, especially pinning CDK on Maldini, despite the wide reporting about Moncada being enamored with CDK and pushing for his transfer.

Remember when RLC was pinned as a Maldini example of disaster, that talks ended once Maldini got fired, and there was wide mocking of RLC as a viable option in Maldini's mind? Then RLC signed with us, it was a great illustration of partisanship over substance.

I do not look at Maldini's comments as some sort of vindication of him. There are things in there that don't make him look great, but I read that as him being more honest about the situation, even to his detriment.

I see dysfunction from Redbird, that's the centerpiece of my issue.

I have read many editorials from Serafini and comments from Suma (among others) about how great Redbird are, so I'm not sure if things were as difficult as you make them out to be. The transfer market was praised endlessly this summer, with maybe some sour grapes with the Taremi/Jovic saga at the end.

At the end of the day, if you're going to fire Maldini, sell Tonali, and give an interview where you say you want to be "Berlusconi 2.0" then you have to perform. They haven't.

I look at Maldini hitting them like this as blowback from their terrible strategy in dealing with him--and again, I'm saying: okay, let's say Maldini was a problem. Cool. Why are we not seeing anything change? We haven't.

All summer we heard about the new 433 and how Pioli got players that match his philosophy, more harmony from Scaroni, and we're seeing players yell at the coach, we're still dropping points, we've returned to the 4231, all the work in the summer with inverted FBs and whatever was abandoned a while ago, and our injuries are worse than ever before.

To me, it looks like Redbird have made the wrong choices, sporting-wise, often. That concerns me, long-term.

I hear you. But I think at this point we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

True that persons who work for the club like Suma, Serafini and Furlani did all to defend their new strategies. I still think the press tho was more hostile and toxic towards the management and more protective towards Maldini - who painted the management as stingy, cheap and rigid before he got fired, speaking of propaganda - more often than not if I look at the last couple of years compared to a brief moment where Redbird was the most active owner on the transfer market and actually starting with a swing in the league before Pioli began his magic. That's how I remember it.

Also, what has been said by clubs representatives turned out to be not entirely made up, no? Like Maldini not being on the same page as most of the rest of the upper management. Or Maldini pushing things through like the Tonali transfer against what the scouting team wanted (thank God he did that, I'm not saying he's been wrong, only that the separation was way more bound to happen than I ever thought from the outside).

I'm dismissing some of the rumors because I'm not even sure if they were all fueled by the management. It's not known. In Pirlos case I think I even remember a Suma video where he says he doesn't believe in that too much, it was more of a friendly talk and nothing beyond that. And some say he's the mouthpiece of Furlani. So...

Or RLC, he was met with scepticism by many in here, before and after Maldini was fired (not by you and me, we were huge fans of that transfer from the get go iirc). I can't particularly remember the Italian press or even RnB being very ambivalent about him tbh. The ones who didn't like him remained vocal even during some of his meh games during summer tournaments iirc.

And then, reverting back to our old system and piling up the injury problem is more of a Pioli problem, no? Of course one that needs to be corrected by RedBird. But it's not like RedBird instructed Pioli to revert back and forth and back again.

Ah, this post got much longer than intended 😅
 

Milan2012

Milan Veteran
Joined
Nov 21, 2018
Messages
2,264
Reaction score
2,726
Last night I watched the game against Frosinone because I couldn't do it live and I have to say that Chukwueze did much better than what I expected judging by the comments in the match thread :lol: Yeah, he lost the ball like a million times but was very involved with the play and did a shit ton of work in defense. Definitely needs a lot of work, but he is not as horrendous as he was in the first 4-5 games. I see a small but steady growth with each game.

06cf2ca5de6a140ffcb3f02876905a3e.jpg
 

IcyDiavolo

Milan Icon
Joined
Jul 21, 2014
Messages
2,735
Reaction score
5,913
Location
Sydney, Australia
The main problems are Lautaro, Thuram and Hakan. Especially Thuram. We need him out for 45-50 days preferably in January and February :lol:
Hakan is actually carrying Inter right now. Crazy to think he could fill the shoes of Brozovic. Inzaghi has done a great job converting him into a regista. Him out and either one of the strikers would be a blessing for us :lol: Arnautovic and Sanchez are not even close to being on the same level.
 

MilanBG

Milan Legend
Joined
May 25, 2011
Messages
8,683
Reaction score
15,448
Hakan is actually carrying Inter right now. Crazy to think he could fill the shoes of Brozovic. Inzaghi has done a great job converting him into a regista. Him out and either one of the strikers would be a blessing for us :lol: Arnautovic and Sanchez are not even close to being on the same level.
Yeah, Hakan stepped up unexpectedly well.
Thuram is also part of the carrying crew. He just plays like he's been there for 3-4 seasons at least and has numerous Balon D'or nominations. Almost everything he tries just pans out just like he wanted.
Our chance is the January-February-March period. That's when Lautaro usually disappears and merda have a horrible schedule. If we stay within 4-5-6 points before this period we may have a chance overtake them. At that time Kalulu and Thiaw should be back and hopefully our injuries slow down a little as they usually do in this period.
 

milanator

Milan Legend
Joined
Sep 3, 2010
Messages
7,453
Reaction score
4,389
Location
Austria
Crazy how we couldnt replace hakan. I hated him when we got him here but then i always said...he is not a LW ..he always played more central in Germany. 4-2-3-1 came..and he was amazing post lockdown
He played LM for Bayer quite a bit.
 

Ash-ish

Milan Legend
Joined
May 23, 2022
Messages
5,717
Reaction score
2,656
Fav. Players
R9, 3, Nesta, Gattuso, B&G, Rui Costa
Crazy how we couldnt replace hakan. I hated him when we got him here but then i always said...he is not a LW ..he always played more central in Germany. 4-2-3-1 came..and he was amazing post lockdown
Never replaced him as a player
Jesus 0.5 was the difference. Insanity . we played krunic as number 10 for scudetto :lol: then Brahmin now ? Tijjani? Theo with inverted bullshit
 

milanator

Milan Legend
Joined
Sep 3, 2010
Messages
7,453
Reaction score
4,389
Location
Austria
Fratesi with only 600min in contrast, he did pretty well in CL though. I mean still ok signing for them and great depth but I think it would be fair to acknowledge some Italian tax in that transfer.
Inter is lucky though that Mikhitaryan is playing one of his good seasons. With him it is usually a role of the dice if he plays like a 50m or a 5m player, so inconsistent between seasons but if he is good he is good.
 

Alo88

Milan Legend
Joined
Nov 28, 2013
Messages
16,352
Reaction score
26,943
Location
Switzerland
Last night I watched the game against Frosinone because I couldn't do it live and I have to say that Chukwueze did much better than what I expected judging by the comments in the match thread :lol: Yeah, he lost the ball like a million times but was very involved with the play and did a shit ton of work in defense. Definitely needs a lot of work, but he is not as horrendous as he was in the first 4-5 games. I see a small but steady growth with each game.

Agreed. Many things to sort out. He's a bit too confusionary when dribbling and his end product is lacking. But he gets himself involved and doesn't disappear after one failed attempt at whatever he was trying to do unlike CDK. If he keeps that up, I can see him fullfilling his potential eventually. He has the right mindset to hold through and not be scared by a difficult start in a new, much more difficult league than La Liga.

Of course now that I said that, he'll have a horrible game against Atalanta while CDK will score a brace and produce three assists, one of them to himself.
 
Top