The Rumour Commode XLVI: Jetski for Prick edition

[mamba]

Juve - Napoli is unwatchable, especially Juve sucks. They look disconnected.

 

[Berlusconi]

Paulo Fonseca conference press: "What to do without the ball against Inter? Tomorrow we need to have the ball, and when we don’t, we must recover it quickly.

I fear the worst. This could get ugly.

He thinks he's playing against fucking Toulouse or Brest or some shit

 

[iamditi]

At the moment Milan doesn’t seem to have heart, mentality and organisation… How can you win the derby?

“By scoring more goals than Inter, that’s how you win a match.” Fonseca

 

[rossonero1]

BOMB EXCLUSIVE:

The Tavern of Milan: The management of the Rossonero club has sent an offer to Jurgen Klopp to take TOTAL control of AC Milan, Milan Future and Milan Spring

They would give him practically the complete keys to the club to try and convince him to come out of retirement ️

Post your source. You get people's hopes up for nothing

 

[Il grande Milan]

Unacceptable that they let that man still come anywhere near San Siro and our squad.

 

[Samaldinho]

Pressing isn't just about effort. Pressing is actually a very deliberate and planned activity. After our Scudetto our pressing structures were not the same, the hybrid zone and man-marking patterns pushed way more towards the man-marking side of the spectrum and it was exploited to open us up--and it has gotten worse, because we don't seem to even have a coherent strategy, at all.

You can demand your CF to press all the way back to your own box, but if you rely on your CF (or LW, RW, etc) to be that outlet on the counter, then your press actually isn't going to work, because you've won the ball back in a way that your structure has now broken down.

That's why having a hybrid of man and zonal marking is so important, it is what Pioli did so well in his first two years, and it's what the best teams do, and of course, it's more about a spectrum rather than an either/or, but how far you lean your team from one end to the other is the key.

Yes, personnel impacts your press, and there are intangibles to players--leaders of teams, glue guys, who puts in effort, etc--but the other element that makes your press effective is your ability to hold onto the ball, which is something we unfortunately have very little of. If you want to play on the counter, you need to have several sources of... lol, you guessed it: progressive passes.

When you look at Man Utd under Ten Hag, he tries to play on the counter, but his midfield pairing actually doesn't have great passing, particularly in Casemiro, and also, Ugarte will have to improve that aspect of his game. Bruno doesn't drop enough to do that, and funnily enough, it was Fonseca's use of Angel Gomes passing ability that helped him at Lille, something he doesn't do here.

If you look at Inter, they actually drop their midfielders to be very close to their defenders when they play out of the back, then you look at us, we don't. There's no one that can be an outlet for the ball from the back four, someone trusted to direct play. So we don't have a shape, we don't have a fulcrum to have coherence to our play.

So, when we lose the ball, our positioning is so haphazard, that transitions become so much easier against us, there is chaos, which is what you want your opponents to be in, because when you can't maintain possession, you can't implement whatever tactical setup you planned, which means that your pressing won't make sense: it's a vicious cycle.

Fonseca has a lot of problems, and I think midfield might be the core of that, but even with this oddly constructed midfield, he isn't using what he has in a way that makes sense. We have no patterns of play, none. Motta has done that with Juve already, with McKennie and Locatelli, and yes, he has Koop and Luiz, but, again, the coherence is there even with those two limited players in McKennie and Locatelli.

Jesus why did I write all that shit?

 

[patosheva]

4 4 2 can be true break in positive thing.
Tammy and morata both press great
Pulisic is ok on rm and fofana need to help leao but we will have advantage on their central backs for sure

 

[nonsonoqui]

4 4 2 can be true break in positive thing.
Tammy and morata both press great
Pulisic is ok on rm and fofana need to help leao but we will have advantage on their central backs for sure

Welcome back brother

I have to apologize to you. I had presented a vignette some weeks ago in which you were the main focus, but I set it in Tirana instead of Sarajevo. You’re Bosnian, not Albanian.

I’m sorry.

 

[Samaldinho]

This is from a few weeks ago about Man Utd, and the question one of the analysts ask is: "is it because the coaching is not good enough, or the players aren't carrying out instructions, or are the players making mistakes within the structure?"

It's a breakdown that reminds me of what we look like under Fonseca and in the worst games under Pioli, but you probably don't care, which means you're a well adjusted and normal person, unlike me, who is weird and terrible.

It's worth a look if you want to see how issues are broken down, it's how professionals approach the game which stands in stark contrast to pure punditry. Anyway, thought some might appreciate it as I think a lot of it applies to us, unfortunately.

 

[nonsonoqui]

Pressing isn't just about effort. Pressing is actually a very deliberate and planned activity. After our Scudetto our pressing structures were not the same, the hybrid zone and man-marking patterns pushed way more towards the man-marking side of the spectrum and it was exploited to open us up--and it has gotten worse, because we don't seem to even have a coherent strategy, at all.

You can demand your CF to press all the way back to your own box, but if you rely on your CF (or LW, RW, etc) to be that outlet on the counter, then your press actually isn't going to work, because you've won the ball back in a way that your structure has now broken down.

That's why having a hybrid of man and zonal marking is so important, it is what Pioli did so well in his first two years, and it's what the best teams do, and of course, it's more about a spectrum rather than an either/or, but how far you lean your team from one end to the other is the key.

Yes, personnel impacts your press, and there are intangibles to players--leaders of teams, glue guys, who puts in effort, etc--but the other element that makes your press effective is your ability to hold onto the ball, which is something we unfortunately have very little of. If you want to play on the counter, you need to have several sources of... lol, you guessed it: progressive passes.

When you look at Man Utd under Ten Hag, he tries to play on the counter, but his midfield pairing actually doesn't have great passing, particularly in Casemiro, and also, Ugarte will have to improve that aspect of his game. Bruno doesn't drop enough to do that, and funnily enough, it was Fonseca's use of Angel Gomes passing ability that helped him at Lille, something he doesn't do here.

If you look at Inter, they actually drop their midfielders to be very close to their defenders when they play out of the back, then you look at us, we don't. There's no one that can be an outlet for the ball from the back four, someone trusted to direct play. So we don't have a shape, we don't have a fulcrum to have coherence to our play.

So, when we lose the ball, our positioning is so haphazard, that transitions become so much easier against us, there is chaos, which is what you want your opponents to be in, because when you can't maintain possession, you can't implement whatever tactical setup you planned, which means that your pressing won't make sense: it's a vicious cycle.

Fonseca has a lot of problems, and I think midfield might be the core of that, but even with this oddly constructed midfield, he isn't using what he has in a way that makes sense. We have no patterns of play, none. Motta has done that with Juve already, with McKennie and Locatelli, and yes, he has Koop and Luiz, but, again, the coherence is there even with those two limited players in McKennie and Locatelli.

Jesus why did I write all that shit?

Who can be our Locatelli or McKennie?

 

[sheva]

The goal scored is a penalty

View attachment 40293

maybe the zingaro could eat humble pie and bring back abate who was actually good with our youth?

 

[Deep Fried Pizza & Chips]

Of course they will Milan’s masterminds gave Juve a diamond and paid spurs 15M for this.
View attachment 40307
Among other duds.

Oh oh oh I had a Tottenham fan in the bar last night and refused him service till he apologised for selling us Royale... He thought I was joking.

He apologised!!!

 

[Pingu]

Juve - Napoli is unwatchable, especially Juve sucks. They look disconnected.

You should see how we play then. I'd love your descriptor of that.

 

[Graeco]

Juve - Napoli is unwatchable, especially Juve sucks. They look disconnected.

Truly terrible game

 

[Milan10]

Man the mood here is depressing as hell, and I completely understand it.

I’m really sorry, everyone.

 

[sheva]

That's a real 424 he is putting out there. Lol.

If I'm going to be kind, he might try Tammy and Morata to drop, form a box, to hit Inter on the counter?

We have no midfield depth, which is great, since RLC isn't fit (I think?) and he doesn't trust Musah, while we loaned out two midfielders, one who can be useful to our list issue, the other being someone who can actually handle the ball and pass it.

Oh, and Kalulu is a nailed-on starter at Juve, wonderful.

it's quite clear he's expecting abraham to drop back for most of the game, with morata being a sort of a target man, and leao as a roam free player.
theo will be nullified in this formation.
and no rlc.

honestly, not the worst formation since RLC is wasted space, fofana should be played at pivot already anyway since he isn't a kessie type, and reindeer can't contribute as AM when our defence is getting ripped to shreds anyway and we have no midfield

the only replacement I would've made is pavlovic for tomori, even after pavlovic's horrible game vs. liverpool, since tomori will intuitively high-press when pavlovic seems like the better low block option (I think it's evident that the only reason why pavlovic pressed high vs. liverpool is coach instructions).

the formation change won't save us from the humiliation, but at least its not repeating the same patterns

and whoever wants fonesca out should he beat this game, shame on you.

 

[Soldier_of_god]

Lol why complain about nappli Rube game and the style of play?

Who gives a shit about style. We just need to win. I don't care if we play 6 2 2 formation, just win

 

[doraemon]

BOMB EXCLUSIVE:

The Tavern of Milan: The management of the Rossonero club has sent an offer to Jurgen Klopp to take TOTAL control of AC Milan, Milan Future and Milan Spring

They would give him practically the complete keys to the club to try and convince him to come out of retirement ️

Are you kidding me? Who is the source?

 

[Soldier_of_god]

Man the mood here is depressing as hell, and I completely understand it.

I’m really sorry, everyone.

?
We are going to win the derby. I am not depressed. But fodderseca got to go

 

[mamba]

You should see how we play then. I'd love your descriptor of that.

yea our gameplay is another level of unwatchable but theirs is also not something to write home about.

 

[mamba]

in fact only merda look solid in this league. We gonna get pounded tomorrow.

 

[nonsonoqui]

Man the mood here is depressing as hell, and I completely understand it.

I’m really sorry, everyone.

So, it’s dark in here for sure.

It is worth remembering, however, that we did bounce back post-Giampaolo, and we are now a team that is consistently in the CL. Up until Kessie hogged the ball near the touchline in 2021, on some coordinate in Bergamo, that was our wish. We’re there now. We also won a Scudetto 2 years ago.

We have had a bumpy start to the season. Shit happens.

Things are not and probably never will be as dark as they were 2013-2021. That was horrendous.

Let’s see how things pan out.

Until then, this forum is our therapy.

 

[Swagotelli]

BOMB EXCLUSIVE:

The Tavern of Milan: The management of the Rossonero club has sent an offer to Jurgen Klopp to take TOTAL control of AC Milan, Milan Future and Milan Spring

They would give him practically the complete keys to the club to try and convince him to come out of retirement ️

Yeah, and 30m budget for all of it

 

[Fusiproe12]

maybe the zingaro could eat humble pie and bring back abate who was actually good with our youth?

Abate is the coach of Ternana (Serie C)

 

[Samaldinho]

Who can be our Locatelli or McKennie?

They aren't unique players, that's the issue, but they're working well in a coherent system that is coached properly. They look like Xavi and Iniesta in comparison to our midfield.

Bennacer getting hurt is really derailing us, but let's say Bennacer wasn't hurt (lol) we have no one who has his characteristics, we sent the only player who can direct play out on loan, for some reason--and that player doesn't perform the same role as Bennacer, mind you, but we relied on him heavily last year because he could control the pace and tempo with his passing.

Reijnders isn't that guy, neither is Fofana, nor RLC, nor Musah--but if you have a coherent structure, they don't have to be metronomes.

Reijnders is a LCM in a Barca-style 433, RLC is a 433 midfielder, Musah is too. Fofana has played as a DM in a double pivot, before last season--but our midfield is designed for a 433 and Fonseca just refuses to use it.

Can our midfielders work in a 4231? Without coaching, no, this isn't their natural roles--and we haven't had coaching for years. When Pioli took over Giampaolo the biggest difference was that he started playing the players in the most coherent spots. He ironed out Kessie, for sure, but he gave up on Suso, put Hakan as a CAM (also a LM) but the first step was just about putting players in the proper role.

Fonseca refuses to do that with his players, that's why so many people are questioning why he isn't using a 433, it's obvious.

Pep can play Kovacic in Rodri's role and things look right. He brings in young players like Rico Lewis and Savinho, and again, they know their roles, they are being coached. Fonseca doesn't need to be Pep, look at De Zerbi or Sarri with Lazio or how about Motta with Bremer who has constantly looked like garbage in a back four and now looks like a very good CB in a back four, or look at Kalulu, who is another young player at Milan who "just isn't that good" or another player that "Milan fans overrate." Look at him at Juve, lol.

The squad is disjointed, yes, with players like Chuk taking up space, Jovic taking up resources, and then there are players like Musah who just aren't being developed even if they have tremendous potential--what is Fonseca's plan? It's being reported we're going into the derby in a new-look, never tried 442.

I hope it works, I really do, but it's not really about players, at this point, because we are struggling with fucking Parma and Torino. Maybe Leao and Theo aren't good enough to win a CL, fine, let's say they aren't, but when the struggles are against relegation teams, you have to point at coaching at that point. You want to say it's because we only spend 20m (or 28m on Chuk) then why does Atalanta look coherent? Why does Inter get by with Acerbi or Sommer or Darmian? Are they suddenly amazing players?

If you're going to be a system coach, you have to have a system: I don't see a system with Fonseca. If you're going to tailor your tactics to your players, like Carlo, then do that, Fonseca hasn't done that. It's why I point at coaching so persistently.

 

[brk]

Reijnders and Fofana together now is ok?

 

[brk]

BOMB EXCLUSIVE:

The Tavern of Milan: The management of the Rossonero club has sent an offer to Jurgen Klopp to take TOTAL control of AC Milan, Milan Future and Milan Spring

They would give him practically the complete keys to the club to try and convince him to come out of retirement ️

 

[mamba]

in other news, Lopetegui might be available in a couple of games

 

[Soldier_of_god]

Lol remember when half the commode was celebrating chuck signing. When we should have signed nico.

 

[ZBoban]

This Juve/Napoli match is putting me to sleep.