The Rumour Commode XXXI: The Panther Era

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Raz

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In some cases it doesn't matter. If you're playing out the back against teams that press, then it matters a lot. Also, being right footed doesn't mean you're not comfortable playing easy passes with your left.

In vast majority of cases it doesn't matter
 

brk

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Good discussion. I like it.

I Got you. And yes I?m right footed...
but I still feel it?s a non-problem, over blow thing. And your points even harden that belief to me.

First, when we were talking about passing, I was thinking about progressive passing/build up passing. Forward passing. and you mentioned ?playmaking? in one of your post. But let?s take the scenario you described: passing between CBs

1. As I said before, this is an issue with criminally 1 footed players.

2. CBs don?t often pass to each other under pressure ... most of passing between CBs happen in when going forward trying to start the play, at that time the opposition in defensive mode.
And during those moment you can moonwalk before passing the ball.

3. Now the way you have illustrated your scenario, one would think it?s robots playing.
Players body move and they?re probably never ?square? in the position you?ve described trying to pass to their side. The way a player receives the ball he always make his first control to set his pass. So he?ll be more or less facing the direction he is passing to. 101
I still remember Seedorf trying to teach this simple concept (ball reception) to Nocerino who was catching an attitude.
Most LCBs are right footed, how do they ever do it?

If a player is often in that situation, Standing facing forward trying to pass to the side..we?re no longer talkin LCB RCB ... he should be in Thursday night league at the neighborhood park.
We are talking about pro here right?

I?ll conclude the same way. Most CBs can play either. If they are to switch they?ll normally take a few game to find their angles and things like that.
This is not like playing a different position

I agree with all this, my point was that at a certain point you can only improve a team at the margins, and making sure your LCB has the best possible range of options open to him on his better foot, that's one way of improving.

CB passing to their partner is just one example, but passing forward or into central areas to escape pressure, that's limited also. You have an advantage passing to your fullback, but that's it, all other options are limited because you'll either have to use your weaker foot, or shift somewhat to open up your body. Of course i'm not saying everyone is facing forward all the time, but on average throughout the game in possession yes you are looking ahead most of the time as a CB.

Also, you're right that most of the time when defenders are in possession and the opposition backs down, this is a pointless detail, since they have all the time to think and move, but that's not the situation i'm worried about here. Under pressure the easiest pass is out wide to the fullback, but that's usually the trap most teams set to press, so a pass to your CB partner is usually the safer option to break a press by playing around them. If you have to take a second to adjust to make that pass, and you have someone like Rebic closing you down, you're in trouble.
 

Tobinho

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Can Vulture cook us up some stats on the number of passing errors between CBs that lead to goals where both CBs have the same preferred foot compared to the number when one is left-footed and one right-footed?
 

Hitchens

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I think ROSSONERI7 really hit the nail on the head with that "criminally one footed" angle vs brk. Most players at this level aren't having this problem. If you play in one of the top 5 leagues you know how to pass a 25m pass with both feet. If you had put Abbiati at CB and tried this out it would have huge significance, because he had one in a million shit ball control.

I played CB until I was 19, and although I understand what he's talking about I played at both sides and this is attributing inflated importance to a small detail.

@brk, I want to commend you on making this point tho. There is value looking for that small edge in todays game.
 
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Charbel

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I feel bad for opening up the subject of a LCB :lol:
 

ROSSONERI7

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I agree with all this, my point was that at a certain point you can only improve a team at the margins, and making sure your LCB has the best possible range of options open to him on his better foot, that's one way of improving.

CB passing to their partner is just one example, but passing forward or into central areas to escape pressure, that's limited also. You have an advantage passing to your fullback, but that's it, all other options are limited because you'll either have to use your weaker foot, or shift somewhat to open up your body. Of course i'm not saying everyone is facing forward all the time, but on average throughout the game in possession yes you are looking ahead most of the time as a CB.

Also, you're right that most of the time when defenders are in possession and the opposition backs down, this is a pointless detail, since they have all the time to think and move, but that's not the situation i'm worried about here. Under pressure the easiest pass is out wide to the fullback, but that's usually the trap most teams set to press, so a pass to your CB partner is usually the safer option to break a press by playing around them. If you have to take a second to adjust to make that pass, and you have someone like Rebic closing you down, you're in trouble.

I hear you brother. I guess this come down how much importance we give to the detail you?re mentioning. It?s important to you... to me not at all... it is what it is.

Currently, The best 2 LCB in the world are right footed. I can?t think of any left footed CB you can replace them with and improve their teams.
On the other hand our LCB is is left footed I can name a bunch or right footed CB to put in his position and improve our team...just because they are better defenders
 

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I guess Dalot will really have to prove himself for at least the next two games.

For Hakan this may be a blessing in disguise. He looked like running on fumes these last few games, if he escapes with almost no symptoms he will have a lot of rest and tune himself into a late season run of results.
 

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Is any other team in Europe suffering as much from covid and injuries as our team? It seems that we're getting it the worst. Why don't Inter and Juve get this kind of bad luck?

I don't think so. It's really sad given how well we're doing that we can't catch a break. Other squads have had more covid players out but in batches for like 2-3 games max, while we keep having injuries and covid affecting players spread out. Matchweek 17 and still only fielded a full XI once against Napoli (if you count Rebic as RW over Leao starter). It's really sad.

We *might* get Saele back for tomorrow, but now Theo and Hakan missing. They will be out at least 10 days now. Rebic and Krunic we have no idea on when they return. Bennacer and Gabbia still out for a week or more at least. It's never-ending.

I'd like to see how other teams we compete against would handle such losses week in and week out.
 

brk

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I think ROSSONERI7 really hit the nail on the head with that "criminally one footed" angle vs brk. Most players at this level aren't having this problem. If you play in one of the top 5 leagues you know how to pass a 25m pass with both feet. If you had put Abbiati at CB and tried this out it would have huge significance, because he had one in a million shit ball control.

I played CB until I was 19, and although I understand what he's talking about I played at both sides and this is attributing inflated importance to a small detail.

@brk, I want to commend you on making this point tho. There is value looking for that small edge in todays game.

I don't think it's that extreme, it's an issue that teams are worried about and especially teams that try to play from the back. This and this explain a similar sort of concern. Sure professionals are expected to play easy passes with their weak foot. The problem is when they're under pressure and have no time. Those situations, even for professionals, they make mistakes if they're not comfortable. Past few years this need has become greater, and there's a handful of elite left footed CB's, so the teams that need this sort of edge, they want those defenders.
 

Charbel

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Lol. Why?
It created a topic of discussion l. Civil with good arguments.
That?s why we?re here...until we make our next signing or win our next game lol
Its mercato time. We shouldn’t be having logical conversations. We should be getting upset over any player that doesn’t come.
 

brk

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I don't think so. It's really sad given how well we're doing that we can't catch a break. Other squads have had more covid players out but in batches for like 2-3 games max, while we keep having injuries and covid affecting players spread out. Matchweek 17 and still only fielded a full XI once against Napoli (if you count Rebic as RW over Leao starter). It's really sad.

We *might* get Saele back for tomorrow, but now Theo and Hakan missing. They will be out at least 10 days now. Rebic and Krunic we have no idea on when they return. Bennacer and Gabbia still out for a week or more at least. It's never-ending.

I'd like to see how other teams we compete against would handle such losses week in and week out.

I try to look at it optimistically. Without the injury crisis we wouldn't have had opportunities to consistently field players like Kalulu, Tonali, Brahim, Hauge, etc. They're now firmly part of the squad playing important minutes and greatly improving the team. This really helps team spirit, since everyone feels like they've seriously contributed.
 

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I try to look at it optimistically. Without the injury crisis we wouldn't have had opportunities to consistently field players like Kalulu, Tonali, Brahim, Hauge, etc. They're now firmly part of the squad playing important minutes and greatly improving the team. This really helps team spirit, since everyone feels like they've seriously contributed.

True, but it'd also be nice to have our full squad and rotate players to keep others not so fatigued. That, and have a much stronger chance at winning every game than we already do.
 

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So

Donnarumma
Calabria-Kjaer-Romagnoli-Dalot
Kessie-Tonali
Samu-Brahim-Hauge
Ibra


Can we play our game with this line-up?
 

taura

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Everyone is reporting that Mandzukic is basically a donr deal waiting only official confirmation
 

brk

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True, but it'd also be nice to have our full squad and rotate players to keep others not so fatigued. That, and have a much stronger chance at winning every game than we already do.

We're winning the league no matter what.
 

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RCD vs LCD discussion
You make valid point but the small margin you are seeking is so small.
It also get smaller when a RCD playing LCD will control the ball coming his way knowing where he most likely to pass it.
Also if LCD find it easy passing the ball to his partner then a RCD playing LCD will find it easier passing the ball toward our FBs, no?!!!!

For me its not a big deal having two RCD but if i wanted to be picky then its more about tackling than passing.
 
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Tobinho

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Donnarumma
Calabria-Kjaer-Romagnoli-Dalot
Kessie-Tonali
Samu-Brahim-Hauge
Ibra


Can we play our game with this line-up?

Yes. Could maybe try Calabria LB and Kalulu as a marauding RB at some point in the game too.
 

Pingu

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Donnarumma
Calabria-Kjaer-Romagnoli-Dalot
Kessie-Tonali
Samu-Brahim-Hauge
Ibra


Can we play our game with this line-up?

Yes, why doubt that? Very lightweight three behind Ibra but he's back at least.
 

brk

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I'm still not sure many people realize how important Mandzukic can be for us. Imagine that monster with fighting off the scraps that Ibra plays him into, or hounding down defenders with Rebic, or being put on next to Ibra if we need a goal late in the game... So many options.
 

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Mandzukic to the #Milan , final details. By Tuesday the striker will be Rossoneri @cmdotcom @86_longo

KmGwYgj.gif
 

Pingu

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Pietro Balzano Prota @PBPcalcio
Mario #Mandzukic ? ad un passo (e qualche dettagliuccio) dal diventare un giocatore del m#Milan.@SempreMilanCom


Mandzukic one step away from Milan.
 

brk

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You make valid point but the small margin you are seaking is so small.
It also get smaller when a RCD playing LCD will control the ball coming his way knowing where he most likely to pass it.
Also if LCD find it easy passing the ball to his partner then a RCD playing LCD will find it easier passing the ball toward our FBs, no?!!!!

For me its not a big deal having two RCD but if i wanted to be picky then its more about tackling than passing.

Yeah, I mentioned that it's easier to pass to the FB. But again, it's all about what you need as a team. Pep values this greatly because he needs his defenders to constantly play under pressure, high, and to play progressive passes without fear. Any advantage he can get to improve this, he'll pay to get that. I'm not saying this applies to everyone since most teams don't need to do this, so they can get away with two right footed CBs.

We play out from the back sometimes so having Romagnoli able to easily pass forward to central areas quickly under pressure, that's important to us. Him being able to quickly play across to Calabria on the other side is also an advantage to break the press. These things weren't as fluid when we played Gabbia LCB. We were constantly under pressure in that zone because teams tried to exploit him. Kessie basically played as a LB when we had Gabbia, all so we have an easy pass for him when needed. Sure Kessie dropped back often all year, but it was extreme when we had Gabbia at LCB.
 

brk

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Yes. Could maybe try Calabria LB and Kalulu as a marauding RB at some point in the game too.

I'm not worried because we (for now) still have a good option off the bench for every position, besides CF unless Rebic is back suddenly or Mandzukic is rushed in.
 

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@NicoSchira
Scheduled on Wednesday the next meeting between Hakan #Calhanoglu?s agent (Gordon Stipic) and #ACMilan to reach the agreement about new contract until 2024. The turkish player ask ?5M + add-ons, meanwhile Maldini has offered ?4M +bonuses. They are confident to close. #transfers
 

Charbel

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Little background:#Ibrahimovic very happy with the arrival of #Mandzukic @86_longo
 

Hitchens

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So

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Can we play our game with this line-up?

I don't see why not.
 
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