The Rumour Commode XXXI: The Panther Era

Status
Not open for further replies.

Hitchens

Evolving organism
New Era Vanguard
Joined
Jun 23, 2015
Messages
17,449
Reaction score
315
Location
Norway
Fav. Players
Tier 1: Maldini, Nesta - Tier 2: Kaká, Seedorf, Shevchenko, Serginho, Kjær, Ibrahimovic
Old school CB's usually stick close, knock their opponents down and use aggression and inch perfect timing to dominate their opponents though. Also this issue is similar to Tonali, the price-tag (in this case the salary and that he is captain) is brining far more criticism.

I never had much issue with him before this season; I expected him to take that step with the team as they ascended but he has regressed and has been exposed plenty. I lost it in the Genoa game last December and now I just hope he will turn in acceptable performances and not be the glaring weak link as I doubt he will be benched.

Good analysis.

Ale was atrocious once he came back, but he's turned in quite a few strong captain performances in 2021. If he plays well, people smirk and when he has an off day there's 20 posts in here calling for his head.

I have my doubts about him and sometimes rue that he's captain. It makes it a harder situation when he's not performing. I'd give a lot to know what Maldini actually thinks of him.
 

Mr. Milanista

Milanista since Birth
Joined
Apr 7, 2010
Messages
22,192
Reaction score
142
Location
Sweden
Fav. Players
Maldini, Nesta, Zidane, Figo, Romagnoli
I really like simple and stupid analyzes that lead to totally plausible conclusions.

The 5-6 games before the Spezia one were not played good but that was mainly down to injuries and we were still winning most of them. Vs Spezia however (and this game vs Red Star) I find it totally possible that the team was overconfident of winning both games and just set their sights on Inter instead. I mean, Spezia and Red Star ARE teams that you should win against, but you always have some kind of preperation for them anyway. I believe they all went against their own philosophy of taking it one game at a time, always preparing for the upcoming game but just let lose and shifted all focus onto Inter because they thought they'd cruise over Spezia and Red Star. Spezia especially, there is no chance they can play that way against a bigger team like us. Ok if they win and are dangerous but not dominating the way they did. Only misfocus, putting your mind into a whole nother game and no preperation can make you play the way we did vs Spezia. Once we went into the game believing we'll just cruise over them and then witness the domination they had over us we went into shock and no chance of fighting back. An embarrasing misjudgement if this is the case.
 

rossonero1

Milan Legend
Joined
Feb 11, 2012
Messages
25,211
Reaction score
2
Not trying to be ? negative ? as some here would start to cry. But i would be surprised to win the derby

Lets hope for the best

Definitely not the favorite going into the derby based on the form they've been in the last few weeks.

It's funny some on here were ready to pop champagne for the scudetto, but a loss this weekend and we have to start worrying about even finishing top 4. You're also looking at a tough schedule for March coming up as well.

I would have never thought 2 weeks ago that they could somehow potentially fuck it all up. :lol:
 

nonsonoqui

Io non ho cugini
Staff member
Joined
Mar 15, 2014
Messages
6,306
Reaction score
72
Definitely not the favorite going into the derby based on the form they've been in the last few weeks.

It's funny some on here were ready to pop champagne for the scudetto, but a loss this weekend and we have to start worrying about even finishing top 4. You're also looking at a tough schedule for March coming up as well.

I would have never thought 2 weeks ago that they could somehow potentially fuck it all up. :lol:

Any team that has a few bad results has to worry about finishing top 4 this year. We are not unique in that regard. We were never really guaranteed top 4 either. Too early.
 

rossonero1

Milan Legend
Joined
Feb 11, 2012
Messages
25,211
Reaction score
2
Any team that has a few bad results has to worry about finishing top 4 this year. We are not unique in that regard. We were never really guaranteed top 4 either. Too early.

Some on here that are delusional would ridicule you if you spoke like that though.
 

nonsonoqui

Io non ho cugini
Staff member
Joined
Mar 15, 2014
Messages
6,306
Reaction score
72
Some on here that are delusional would ridicule you if you spoke like that though.

I had this discussion with dcfcfan as well. The table is tight and lots of games to go. It has looked the best it has looked in a long time, but we need 27-30 points still to virtually guarantee it.
 

ROSSONERI7

Myself
Joined
Aug 30, 2004
Messages
2,964
Reaction score
297
Location
New York
Good analysis.

Ale was atrocious once he came back, but he's turned in quite a few strong captain performances in 2021. If he plays well, people smirk and when he has an off day there's 20 posts in here calling for his head.

I have my doubts about him and sometimes rue that he's captain. It makes it a harder situation when he's not performing. I'd give a lot to know what Maldini actually thinks of him.

I think this is quite telling from a recent interview (nov-dec)

A defender is easy enough for me to read, but while before we used to ask for a player could fit well in the department, now I would go and get a player who is strong in one-on-one, then we can teach him how to fit in the back four. The hard thing to teach is strength in one-on-one situations and concentration.

At this moment, especially for our way of playing but also the situation of football in general, I would go and get a strong defender in one-on-one. That?s why we tried to sign Mohamed Simakan from RC Strasbourg.

The French league is not very tactical, as a result the defenders develop the ability to defend well one on one. Whether it?s Simakan or someone else, our idea is to sign this kind of player. Maybe tactically crude, but with physical strength and good defensively one-on-one.
 

rossonero1

Milan Legend
Joined
Feb 11, 2012
Messages
25,211
Reaction score
2
I had this discussion with dcfcfan as well. The table is tight and lots of games to go. It has looked the best it has looked in a long time, but we need 27-30 points still to virtually guarantee it.

I think the next 6 Serie A matches will determine the season. If they make it through March I believe they'll be in the clear for top 4.
 
Last edited:

LocalHero80

The other side of Ba
Joined
Aug 14, 2015
Messages
13,422
Reaction score
-40
Pioli's time to bounce back. If he doesnt motivate the team to wake the fuck up and destroy merda, he can go downhill.
 

dcfcfan1

Milan Legend
Joined
May 21, 2014
Messages
5,258
Reaction score
8
I had this discussion with dcfcfan as well. The table is tight and lots of games to go. It has looked the best it has looked in a long time, but we need 27-30 points still to virtually guarantee it.

Tbh it would take a monster fuck up to not get top 4, even if we lose vs inter and roma (unlikely as roma never beat any good team) we will still be faves for top 4. It would take a collapse not to get top 4
 

dcfcfan1

Milan Legend
Joined
May 21, 2014
Messages
5,258
Reaction score
8
Not to mention juventus are on awful form and napoli barely have anyone fit.
 

ROSSONERI7

Myself
Joined
Aug 30, 2004
Messages
2,964
Reaction score
297
Location
New York
I don't think Romagnoli is anywhere as near bad, not even average, as some of you make him out to be. He's a good to great CB but he's never taken that step to become a top player. He can make horrible mistakes that cost us dearly like today for the PK. He is SLOW, like really slow. It's so detrimental to him. And, as I said, he's never taken that step to the next level. Sometimes he looks like a top CB, sometimes like Paletta in disguise. Having a fast CB like Tomori beside him to recover if he's beaten can help, but it doesn't take away his flaws. He's an oldschool CB and not "modern" for what our team requires to a degree.

I?m 100% for special attention to complementarity of player. There?s no such thing as a complete player. Hell, that?s the base concept of team.
Have someone who?s good at what you?re not good at and vice versa.

However this does not apply here. That ?havng a fast CB like Tomori next to him could help.? Makes little sense to me when you look at the way Romagnoli plays, especially when being ran at. Which happens a lot.
He doesn?t make any attempt to take/kick the ball away from the player. It Seems his goal is to block the shot / intercept the pass (that?s why he is great at low block defending) . So he escorts the player to our box, backing up to Gigio?s chest. So when does Tomori uses his speed to make a recovery run in those cases? If he was making the attempt to get the ball 5-15 yards from the box and gets beaten then there is space to ?recover?...
Kjaer despite also not being fast would challenge the attacker at that point, before the box. And being good at 1v1, most times he?ll win or the attacker will simply turn away or pass back. But if he was to fail there, then a Tomori could use his speed to cover. That would be complementarity.

I agree he is not a bad defender, good even and he has to in his type of football to show it...he is a cross/shot blocker, pass interceptor type of defender. Who excel in teams that sit back. With a guy like Mourinho, he?ll probably be ?world class?.
Every once in a while he tries to be a proactive and aggressive defender but it last 1-2 games... I noticed that when Kjaer first came and recently when he played the first time with Tomori.
It?s simply not him.
 

ROSSONERI7

Myself
Joined
Aug 30, 2004
Messages
2,964
Reaction score
297
Location
New York
Bar the late equalizer, it would have been fair to say Meite and Tonali put in good shifts.
Strangely, Kessie and Bennacer work individually but as also a tandem. While with Meite and Tonali, it didn’t seem like a pair (which is normal, they haven’t played together) but each did good on his own.
At least Kessie Had some rest...first time he did not participate at all in a game this season?
 

OVUNQUE CON TE

Milan Veteran
Joined
Jan 24, 2011
Messages
1,783
Reaction score
1
Derby?

Ibra
Rebic Hakan Saele
Kessie Tonali
Theo Tomori Klaer Calabria
Donna

Roma and Klaer against Lukaku scares me
 

Sognatore

Milan Icon
Joined
Sep 17, 2012
Messages
4,716
Reaction score
22
Fav. Players
bosnian di marzio
It's hard to not be spoiled after having experienced record breaking streaks and what-not so the last few games has probably been something of a reality check for many. The good thing is that reality is pretty damn good anyway. 2-2...whatever. Easy job on home turf later. We're not the first prestigious club getting a draw in a european cup.

Up until recently we have probably overperformed in some sense. I don't like the word overperformed because it doesn't really make sense but what I mean is that during that incredible run there were elements such as the unique atmosphere caused by a continuus evolution and growth in a historic run in which the players were establishing themselves that added extra power. The results are completely merited though so even if the honeymoon is over and things are looking a bit more grim I too doubt everything will fall apart. It was always too early to talk about scudetto and it still is
 
Last edited:

Sognatore

Milan Icon
Joined
Sep 17, 2012
Messages
4,716
Reaction score
22
Fav. Players
bosnian di marzio
This season is still special for everyone involved so I highly doubt motivation is lacking it's just that winning leads to more winning and we have to get back in the groove. We're not a team of champions...we need the groove
 

Sognatore

Milan Icon
Joined
Sep 17, 2012
Messages
4,716
Reaction score
22
Fav. Players
bosnian di marzio
Speaking of Ale

Why would he contradict Pioli after Spezia game? Pioli said they didn't underestimate Spezia while Ale said they did. Ale also said they weren't confident...almost as if he's contradicting himself as well. Why would this happen
 

Goodfella

Milan Legend
Joined
Jan 20, 2011
Messages
14,361
Reaction score
172
This match confirmed the suspicions from the Spezia game. Bennacer and Hakan are terribly out of shape and their bad performances had very little to do with extraordinary man-marking and defending from Spezia.

Red Star were a mess. They were being ripped apart by Krunic and Tonali. And yet Bennacer and Hakan didn't manage to do a single thing right in this game either.
Teams haven't recently found a way to deal with them - they've always known that those two have crucial roles in our system. Press resistance and versatility are their strengths. You can't block those kind of players out of games unless they do half the job for you.
They're just very, very bad at the moment to a point where they're crippling us. Bennacer had been away for a long time, and this latest setback suggests he hadn't even recovered.
Hakan was in such a bad state after COVID that he didn't begin training with the group again until several days after the negative test results. For comparison, Rebic was playing against Atalanta just 2 days after the club's official statement.

As for tonight's game, the first half performance was a lot better than expected, although Mandzukic disappointed.
We're so much better and prettier to look at with Rebic.
Tonali provided the energy that Bennacer and Meite were lacking.
Kalulu had a pretty bad start to the game, apart from his involvement in one of the disallowed goals, but he improved and showed that Dalot should never start ahead of him.
I'm loving Tomori more and more.

Then Leao came on for Rebic and made it look like the Spezia game all over again.
Lethargy, no organization...our attack went to shit. Theo had to compensate for the front 4 again, and he dived us back into a lead.

2-2 against Red Star away, with your reserves and some starters that weren't risking anything before the derby, is not a bad result.
But losing a lead to a team that's one man down is always embarrassing and infuriating, although with Leao in this mood it was more like 10vs10.
He came on just to walk around, more than the usual - probably to avoid fatigue or injuries before the derby. Hopefully he won't start.
 
Last edited:

LocalHero80

The other side of Ba
Joined
Aug 14, 2015
Messages
13,422
Reaction score
-40
Definitely not the favorite going into the derby based on the form they've been in the last few weeks.

It's funny some on here were ready to pop champagne for the scudetto, but a loss this weekend and we have to start worrying about even finishing top 4.
You're also looking at a tough schedule for March coming up as well.

I would have never thought 2 weeks ago that they could somehow potentially fuck it all up. :lol:

The funny part is being on either side of this. You're on the pessimist side as usual. As problematic as the ones who were celebrating scudetto. You guys are two sides of a coin. One ejaculating prematurely, the other can't even allow themselves to get a boner not to be disappointed.
 

rossonero1

Milan Legend
Joined
Feb 11, 2012
Messages
25,211
Reaction score
2
The funny part is being on either side of this. You're on the pessimist side as usual. As problematic as the ones who were celebrating scudetto. You guys are two sides of a coin. One ejaculating prematurely, the other can't even allow themselves to get a boner not to be disappointed.

The last decade has shown me not trust anything with this team until top 4 is official. I?ll be nervous until the end.
 

Massaro94

Milan Legend
Joined
Mar 11, 2013
Messages
22,324
Reaction score
16
Location
Grande Britain
Fav. Players
Maradona-Shevchenko-Zizou
Derby?

Ibra
Rebic Hakan Saele
Kessie Tonali
Theo Tomori Klaer Calabria
Donna

Roma and Klaer against Lukaku scares me

I'd change Saele for Samu

I like Tomori starting. Bit risky...but if he is going to be our future CB he needs to experience the derby asap.

We need to boost our bench for next season
 

ROSSONERI7

Myself
Joined
Aug 30, 2004
Messages
2,964
Reaction score
297
Location
New York
I'd change Saele for Samu

I like Tomori starting. Bit risky...but if he is going to be our future CB he needs to experience the derby asap.

We need to boost our bench for next season

that's how he was baptized.

and it wasn't no light (copa, uselles) derby either ... it was one the most intense derbies in a while.
 

Casualista

Banned
Joined
Jul 26, 2010
Messages
18,102
Reaction score
0
I don't think Romagnoli is anywhere as near bad, not even average, as some of you make him out to be. He's a good to great CB..........He's an oldschool CB

Stop throwing random terms around like they mean something.

An old school CB is someone like Chiellini / John Terry / Vidic. The no nonsense gritty farmer type defender who were aerially good that defined Italy for much of 90s and 2000s.

Romagnoli is not gritty. Lukaku plants his ass on his face and then turns him around for clean runs on goal.

Bonucci / Hummels are more modern take on CBs. The playmakers from defense with very average defending skills. Romagnoli doesnt help build anything from the back so he's failed there as well.

The other variants are the CB-full back hybrids. The strong fast physical rocks who could defend and attack in equal measure. These are the best CBs of last decade - Ramos, Puyol, Alaba, prime Boateng etc. The type of defenders with whom il capitano shares 0 quality.


He is not "good" to "great". He is an extremely forgettable Mexes level defender without the highlight reel goals.
 

voom

Milan Legend
Joined
Mar 5, 2011
Messages
5,997
Reaction score
46
This match confirmed the suspicions from the Spezia game. Bennacer and Hakan are terribly out of shape and their bad performances had very little to do with extraordinary man-marking and defending from Spezia.

Red Star were a mess. They were being ripped apart by Krunic and Tonali. And yet Bennacer and Hakan didn't manage to do a single thing right in this game either.
Teams haven't recently found a way to deal with them - they've always known that those two have crucial roles in our system. Press resistance and versatility are their strengths. You can't block those kind of players out of games unless they do half the job for you.
They're just very, very bad at the moment to a point where they're crippling us. Bennacer had been away for a long time, and this latest setback suggests he hadn't even recovered.
Hakan was in such a bad state after COVID that he didn't begin training with the group again until several days after the negative test results. For comparison, Rebic was playing against Atalanta just 2 days after the club's official statement.

As for tonight's game, the first half performance was a lot better than expected, although Mandzukic disappointed.
We're so much better and prettier to look at with Rebic.
Tonali provided the energy that Bennacer and Meite were lacking.
Kalulu had a pretty bad start to the game, apart from his involvement in one of the disallowed goals, but he improved and showed that Dalot should never start ahead of him.
I'm loving Tomori more and more.

Then Leao came on for Rebic and made it look like the Spezia game all over again.
Lethargy, no organization...our attack went to shit. Theo had to compensate for the front 4 again, and he dived us back into a lead.

2-2 against Red Star away, with your reserves and some starters that weren't risking anything before the derby, is not a bad result.
But losing a lead to a team that's one man down is always embarrassing and infuriating, although with Leao in this mood it was more like 10vs10.
He came on just to walk around, more than the usual - probably to avoid fatigue or injuries before the derby. Hopefully he won't start.

Benacer is out of shape ,unfortunately he again got injured and i don't believe we will see him again with last year form ,this year.
Hakan got only last 10 minutes, i don't know why you attacking him? You know that Milan played with 30% , we have probably the most important match of decade against Inter. But our play is worrying, and Poili should find answers starting from the next game.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top