The Rumour Commode XXXIX: A Cardinal Sin

Do you think Leao will renew?


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Kuroha

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Our players dished it out first with that Inzaghi poster and Scudetto celebrations so I’m afraid they have to take it. It’s part of the banter and rivalry.

Fuck Hakan tho 👎
yeah I know. I just want to motivate our team with that post. What a dumb move!! :lol:
 

VultureSheva

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Vulture reading R&B forums and Twitter, and reading everything angry Milan fans are saying (about Pioli, Maldini, donkey players etc), and all of it does match exactly with what I said in 2020-21 and 2021-22.

It feels like when the results go down & there is total disappointment - people start to see the truth.
4C30215F-4405-487E-A4DF-3353A32731E2.gif
 
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ForzaSandro

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Vulture reading R&B forums and Twitter, and reading everything angry Milan fans are saying (about Pioli, Maldini, donkey players etc), and all of it does match exactly with what I said in 2020-21.

It feels like when the results go down & there is total disappointment - people start to see the truth.
View attachment 14141
Prophet Alimony, pbuh
 

SecondStar

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Busy all day and just watched the match in full. It hurts man. I’m not in the mood to discuss football. Just hurts.
 

brk

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Far too many posters here perceive football as a video game controlled by a single player (coach). You folks heavily overestimate the role of a coach in football. How a team performs on the pitch depends on so many things, a small fraction of which can be attributed to the coach's abilities.

I think Pioli received too much praise when we won the league. He basically was reaping the rewards of the work done by Rino before him, and the natural progression of our young players, as well as chemistry development among them, which takes time.

Similarly, he is receiving too much criticism now for something that is beyond a coach's control.

In both cases, praisers and critiques are overreacting.

Please don't get me wrong. I am not saying coaches should never be criticized. They should. But in case of Pioli, he is not our biggest problem at the moment. I think we eventually need to upgrade over him. But before that, we need to resolve more important issues.

Even if we assume that Pioli is the biggest issue, we cannot afford to get a better coach. The club doesn't have money to even get a decent goalie. How can we pay for a top coach? So, please stop bitching and support your club. Fan support is crucial at this difficult moment.
This is extremely unfair. The squad Rino had was almost entirely different to the one Pioli built. Rino's side was built on defensive solidity, we barely attacked but we conceded few chances relative to before Rino. With Pioli (besides the fact it was mostly a different squad) we became extremely proactive, with high pressing and a very direct running game. There is almost no thread from Rino to Pioli.

" and the natural progression of our young players, as well as chemistry development among them, which takes time." This doesn't happen without good coaching. To deny Pioli's influence here without evidence is not fair.

"Similarly, he is receiving too much criticism now for something that is beyond a coach's control." True, but he has also been defended before and he's proven adept at learning from his mistakes and changing course. He's been stubborn lately which is why i'm personally losing patience.

I agree 100% Pioli is the least of our problems, but he has been a problem recently unfortunately.
 

BillyTheKid

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This is extremely unfair. The squad Rino had was almost entirely different to the one Pioli built. Rino's side was built on defensive solidity, we barely attacked but we conceded few chances relative to before Rino. With Pioli (besides the fact it was mostly a different squad) we became extremely proactive, with high pressing and a very direct running game. There is almost no thread from Rino to Pioli.

" and the natural progression of our young players, as well as chemistry development among them, which takes time." This doesn't happen without good coaching. To deny Pioli's influence here without evidence is not fair.

"Similarly, he is receiving too much criticism now for something that is beyond a coach's control." True, but he has also been defended before and he's proven adept at learning from his mistakes and changing course. He's been stubborn lately which is why i'm personally losing patience.

I agree 100% Pioli is the least of our problems, but he has been a problem recently unfortunately.
I can't provide evidence (it will take too much time to collect data), but I remember (maybe incorrectly) that Pioli started with more or less the same squad as Rino. He also started with a very conservative approach in the first months until slowly infusing his vision into the team to play high line, high press football. But I am confident that Rino would have done the same if given enough time.

I disagree that Pioli has been stubborn. He is, on the contrary, too adventurous, in my view, and that is part of the problem. He started to seriously try different game plans in games that we needed results from, e.g., against Roma in the final minutes, or against Turino in coppa. A stubborn coach wouldn't do that. He is very (too) open to new ideas.

Of course, this is just my personal opinion (not based on hard facts) and could be totally wrong.
 

brk

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Let's see how he reacts. I'm not judging him this winter, but over the coming summer. If we don't get a market like the one I was hoping for last summer....


We have the revenue, we controlled our costs and we locked up our stars long term (assuming Leao finally signs this week). There are clear, clear problems in the squad. The lack of alternatives in key areas exposing some really bad cracks. We need to upgrade to get back on the path of building a team capable of winning the CL soon.

FmyLvw7XEAAQ2y_


This was Maldini last summer. I am 100% sure he still feels the same way and the only reason he agreed to stay on was that Gerry promised him what he wanted. I'm reaching a point of acceptance that this is a lost season, partly because of the late closing, and because young players aren't consistent. We made it work late last season, but things are unraveling now. My hope is that we at least close out the season knowing what we need to do over the summer, meaning we know whether we want to keep the new guys or not. Knowing whether our CB pairing is Kalulu Tomori or not, to keep Brahim or not. I'd love to see much less pressure now that we're pretty much just playing for 4th place, and for that to mean we go back to basics and build confidence and for us to regain our identity and carefree football. The pressure got to us and the young guys couldn't handle it. Ibra wasn't there to soak it all up like he did at the beginning.

We renewed everyone, we're still a really young team with an excellent core, but the faults are being very clear to everyone right now.

The problems in the squad were hidden because of an insanely good team spirit that lasted for months and carried us to a deserved title, but it's being exposed now:

- CB. We need a better Kjaer and that was important to me in the summer, to get someone that's different to Kalulu and Tomori now that Kjaer is past it. I think this was a major failing that I hoped wouldn't happen. We can defend in a high press and high line with Kalulu and Tomori, especially with Maignan behind them leading them and giving confidence. But we can't defend under pressure or defend set pieces or defend when low in confidence. This was clear to me and it was obviously clear to Maldini. This has to change. Not getting Botman was a mistake.

- RW. That's a huge problem that's been evident for years. It wasn't the highest priority but it is now. Messias and Saelemaekers are not good enough to be starters. One has to go and we need to upgrade massively. We are extremely left leaning and that leaves wide open space to exploit on the right. Not getting Ziyech was a mistake.

- CF. Giroud is limited. He's excellent at what he does, but he's still limited. He can't run at defenses, and we need our CF to run as well as press. I was hoping Origi would carry us for a few years while we scout and develop our long term CF, but Origi has been disastrously unavailable. I still hope he can regain fitness and play consistently but i'm not counting on it anymore. We need a CF.

- Solve CDK. What is he? We've been forcing him as the AM for months now and it's only getting worse. This stubbornness is destroying the player's psyche. He doesn't know what to do. He doesn't want to ball. His teammates don't want to give him the ball. It was enough of a culture shock to move to a top 5 league, a huge club, new language, first time leaving his home and then suddenly thrust to play in a position that he probably wasn't comfortable in, doing things that he hasn't done before (off the ball). I know it takes time, but it's also important to try different things. Leao was being played as a CF in his first season or two. It's only when we finally decided he was a LW that he gained confidence and form and became the Leao we know. I don't see the same willingness to try things with CDK. It's as if he was brought here to be the AM and if he can't do that job, he's not even a choice anywhere else. His versatility was his most valuable asset, yet we're completely ignoring it.

- Alternatives. Theo looks completely jaded recently and plays like he knows he won't be dropped. The WC might have taken a lot out of him mentally, and he needed some time to rest and recover and find his hunger again. Having an alternative that could potentially force him to stay on the bench, that would have been useful. Pioli literally can't leave Theo out of the lineup no matter how much he's played. This is not good. Same goes for our CM pairing now, and Leao, and Tomori. Although I think we're going to be forced to rest Tomori now. He's played non stop for two and a half years for us, I think he needs to start getting more breaks. This is why it's really confusing to me why we're not playing Thiaw or Adli or Vranckx more than we have. That's why they're here, to become good enough squad players that they start to challenge the starters and keep them on their toes. We wanted to win so badly that we barely gave them a chance and kept grinding our 11 until they lost their way. Pioli started Adli once, he played ok, but then kept him frozen out ever since. Why? This is why i'm not that sad that we've lost the chance to win anything this season, at least there's no longer any excuse to start giving more space to the new guys.

- Improvisation in attack. This has been bugging me for years. I was sort of happy at the end of last season once we started playing the Leao drilled crosses that got us a bunch of goals at the end of last season. We're now back to Leao cutting inside and trying to shoot all the time or playing low prob crosses with his right foot. It's a big step back. I want to see a lot more automated movements (Giroud is doing his job, he's almost always free for a cut back, but we rarely manage to find him with a good cut back). It's like a light that suddenly goes out whenever we reach the box, nobody knows what they're supposed to do anymore we always take more touches than we need, allow defenses to close up, and then lose the ball. It's so frustrating to watch over and over again. It's partly a confidence issue, but that's the point of automations, they become second nature that you don't even think about it anymore. You run and cross knowing that player x will be there to meet it.


Our team overperformed last season. It's underperforming now. We need to stabilize the performance first and then figure out what went wrong, then slowly identify who will still be in the squad next season and who needs to be replaced. Use this season as a launching pad for the the upcoming 3 year cycle like Maldini was anticipating. We missed the upgrade this summer and we're suffering the consequences. We got extremely unlucky with injuries and form, so we have to accept that we're not winning anything this year and keep building for the medium and long term. There's a lot of work left to do to build that team that will be ready to challenge for the CL. I was disappointed we didn't take that step last summer, and I was hopeful we could keep the fire burning from last season, but it didn't last. Let's hope Maldini still wants Milan to be at the top of Europe, and that Gerry feels the same way. I still believe in Pioli and that he's the right man to lead us to glory.
 
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brk

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I can't provide evidence (it will take too much time to collect data), but I remember (maybe incorrectly) that Pioli started with more or less the same squad as Rino. He also started with a very conservative approach in the first months until slowly infusing his vision into the team to play high line, high press football. But I am confident that Rino would have done the same if given enough time.

I disagree that Pioli has been stubborn. He is, on the contrary, too adventurous, in my view, and that is part of the problem. He started to seriously try different game plans in games that we needed results from, e.g., against Roma in the final minutes, or against Turino in coppa. A stubborn coach wouldn't do that. He is very (too) open to new ideas.

Of course, this is just my personal opinion (not based on hard facts) and could be totally wrong.
Pioli was almost sacked for continuing to badly play the Rino way (433 Susoball). Him cutting that thread to Rino and finding his own way was the reason why he became the Pioli we know.
 

Thenebra

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Let's see how he reacts. I'm not judging him this winter, but over the coming summer. If we don't get a market like the one I was hoping for last summer....


We have the revenue, we controlled our costs and we locked up our stars long term (assuming Leao finally signs this week). There are clear, clear problems in the squad. The lack of alternatives in key areas exposing some really bad cracks. We need to upgrade to get back on the path of building a team capable of winning the CL soon.

FmyLvw7XEAAQ2y_


This was Maldini last summer. I am 100% sure he still feels the same way and the only reason he agreed to stay on was that Gerry promised him what he wanted. I'm reaching a point of acceptance that this is a lost season, partly because of the late closing, and because young players aren't consistent. We made it work late last season, but things are unraveling now. My hope is that we at least close out the season knowing what we need to do over the summer, meaning we know whether we want to keep the new guys or not. Knowing whether our CB pairing is Kalulu Tomori or not, to keep Brahim or not. I'd love to see much less pressure now that we're pretty much just playing for 4th place, and for that to mean we go back to basics and build confidence and for us to regain our identity and carefree football. The pressure got to us and the young guys couldn't handle it. Ibra wasn't there to soak it all up like he did at the beginning.

We renewed everyone, we're still a really young team with an excellent core, but the faults are being very clear to everyone right now.

The problems in the squad were hidden because of an insanely good team spirit that lasted for months and carried us to a deserved title, but it's being exposed now:

- CB. We need a better Kjaer and that was important to me in the summer, to get someone that's different to Kalulu and Tomori now that Kjaer is past it. I think this was a major failing that I hoped wouldn't happen. We can defend in a high press and high line with Kalulu and Tomori, especially with Maignan behind them leading them and giving confidence. But we can't defend under pressure or defend set pieces or defend when low in confidence. This was clear to me and it was obviously clear to Maldini. This has to change. Not getting Botman was a mistake.

- RW. That's a huge problem that's been evident for years. It wasn't the highest priority but it is now. Messias and Saelemaekers are not good enough to be starters. One has to go and we need to upgrade massively. We are extremely left leaning and that leaves wide open space to exploit on the right. Not getting Ziyech was a mistake.

- CF. Giroud is limited. He's excellent at what he does, but he's still limited. He can't run at defenses, and we need our CF to run as well as press. I was hoping Origi would carry us for a few years while we scout and develop our long term CF, but Origi has been disastrously unavailable. I still hope he can regain fitness and play consistently but i'm not counting on it anymore. We need a CF.

- Solve CDK. What is he? We've been forcing him as the AM for months now and it's only getting worse. This stubbornness is destroying the player's psyche. He doesn't know what to do. He doesn't want to ball. His teammates don't want to give him the ball. It was enough of a culture shock to move to a top 5 league, a huge club, new language, first time leaving his home and then suddenly thrust to play in a position that he probably wasn't comfortable in doing things that he hasn't done before (off the ball). I know it takes time, but it's also important to try different things. Leao was being played a CF in his first season or two. It's only when we finally decided he was a LW that he gained confidence and form and became the Leao we know. I don't see the same willingness to try things with CDK. It's as if he was brought here to be the AM and if he can't do that job, he's not even a choice anywhere else. His versatility was his most valuable asset, yet we're completely ignoring it.

- Alternatives. Theo looks completely jaded recently and plays like he knows he won't be dropped. The WC might have taken a lot out of him mentally, and he needed some time to rest and recover and find his hunger again. Having an alternative that could potentially force him to stay on the bench, that would have been useful. Pioli literally can't leave Theo out of the lineup no matter how much he's played. This is not good. Same goes for our CM pairing now, and Leao, and Tomori. Although I think we're going to be forced to rest Tomori now. He's played non stop for two and a half years for us, I think he needs to start getting more breaks. This is why it's really confusing to me why we're not playing Thiaw or Adli or Vranckx more than we have. That's why they're here, to become good enough squad players that they start to challenge the starters and keep them on their toes. We wanted to win so badly that we barely gave them a chance and kept grinding our 11 until they lost their way. Pioli started Adli once, he played ok, but then kept him frozen out ever since. Why? This is why i'm not that sad that we've lost the chance to win anything this season, at least there's no longer any excuse to start giving more space to the new guys.

- Improvisation in attack. This has been bugging me for years. I was sort of happy at the end of last season once we started playing the Leao drilled crosses that got us a bunch of goals at the end of last season. We're now back to Leao cutting inside and trying to shoot all the time or playing low prob crosses with his right foot. It's a big step back. I want to see a lot more automated movements (Giroud is doing his job, he's almost always free for a cut back, but we rarely manage to find him with a good cut back). It's like a light that suddenly goes out whenever we reach the box, nobody knows what they're supposed to do anymore we always take more touches than we need, allow defenses to close up, and then lose the ball. It's so frustrating to watch over and over again. It's partly a confidence issue, but that's the point of automations, they become second nature that you don't even think about it anymore. You run and cross knowing that player x will be there to meet it.


Our team overperformed last season, it's underperforming now, but we need to stabilize the performance first, figure out what went wrong and then slowly identify who will still be in the squad next season and who needs to be replaced. Use this season as a launching pad for the the upcoming 3 year cycle like Maldini was anticipating. We missed the upgrade this summer and we're suffering the consequences. We got extremely unlucky with injuries and form, so we have to accept that we're not winning anything this year and keep building for the medium and long term. There's a lot of work left to do to build that team that will be ready to challenge for the CL. I was disappointed we didn't take that step last summer, and I was hopeful we could keep the fire burning from last season, but it didn't last. Let's hope Maldini still wants Milan to be at the top of Europe, and that Gerry feels the same way. I still believe in Pioli and that he's the right man to lead us to glory.
 
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BillyTheKid

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Pioli was almost sacked for continuing to badly play the Rino way (433 Susoball). Him cutting that thread to Rino and finding his own way was the reason why he became the Pioli we know.
So, can we at least agree that he has not been stubborn?
 

brk

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So, can we at least agree that he has not been stubborn?
That's my entire point, he was not stubborn for a long time. He's only recently gotten stubborn I think because of pressure to win now.
 

Torcida

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Well it’s obvious that Scudetto was a fluke due to horrible competition. Shitty coach, shitty owners and the worst summer/winter mercato in ages. Back to year -1. Hope the next scudetto in 2032 is the result of great players, owners and a coach with some vision amd future at the club.
 

milanator

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- Solve CDK. What is he? We've been forcing him as the AM for months now and it's only getting worse. This stubbornness is destroying the player's psyche. He doesn't know what to do. He doesn't want to ball. His teammates don't want to give him the ball. It was enough of a culture shock to move to a top 5 league, a huge club, new language, first time leaving his home and then suddenly thrust to play in a position that he probably wasn't comfortable in doing things that he hasn't done before (off the ball). I know it takes time, but it's also important to try different things. Leao was being played a CF in his first season or two. It's only when we finally decided he was a LW that he gained confidence and form and became the Leao we know. I don't see the same willingness to try things with CDK. It's as if he was brought here to be the AM and if he can't do that job, he's not even a choice anywhere else. His versatility was his most valuable asset, yet we're completely ignoring it.

CDK got to play ST against Torino, that didn't really help or change the way he played. He is afraid to make mistakes and that's not going to work in neither ST, CAM or RW. A goal would help him a lot, but otherwise there isn't really much we can do other than giving him time or cutting our losses.

Otherwise it is time to play that 3-5-2 we used a bit, with the lack of stability we have at the moment we need that one more defender for now.
 

Thenebra

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Its ok to be angry, we play like shit. But its also ok to try and have a positive outlook and try to look forward.

At the end of the day we fans dont decide shit and just have to take it. Good or bad.

With that said, loan me a god damn striker, rw, a tree defender and a destroyer mid. Or at least one of those. Or buy one and loan one.

Help me help you.
 

brk

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Well it’s obvious that Scudetto was a fluke due to horrible competition. Shitty coach, shitty owners and the worst summer/winter mercato in ages. Back to year -1. Hope the next scudetto in 2032 is the result of great players, owners and a coach with some vision amd future at the club.
You can win a cup competition as a 'fluke' since you need your odds to be in your favor for fewer games. Over a season it's really unlikely for any team to get lucky over 38 games to win a league title undeservedly. We had the odds mostly against us with injuries and questionable refereeing decisions yet we still won. It wasn't a fluke, we fully deserved to win and we beat all the top teams.
 
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brk

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CDK got to play ST against Torino, that didn't really help or change the way he played. He is afraid to make mistakes and that's not going to work in neither ST, CAM or RW. A goal would help him a lot, but otherwise there isn't really much we can do other than giving him time or cutting our losses.

Otherwise it is time to play that 3-5-2 we used a bit, with the lack of stability we have at the moment we need that one more defender for now.
I disagree, I don't think another defender will help us defend better. We are losing games in midfield, not in the back. I think we need to go back to the solid 4231 with a midfielder behind the striker, not a Brahim (or CDK) type.

Krunic is the best option once he's fit. Keep playing the 4231 but rotate a LOT more to keep everyone fresh and hungry. Changing formations when that's not really the problem will cause way more issues than it solves.
 

Alo88

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Hello all and @MilanMB i had to miss the game a good friend was in a serious accident (not of his making another careless stupid driver) so I was in the hospital. He had a lucky escape and while he is hurt badly he is alive and will recover.

I haven’t been reading posts on the game just checked the score. Disappointing but it is not a priority competition do yourselves a favour move on and forget the super coppa . So needless to say @MilanMB I won’t be voting on this one.

Milan have bigger objectives and I am extremely grateful a long time friend is alive and will recover.

Forza Life! 🙏🍀 Forza Milan ⭐⭐

All best wishes to your friend. I sadly lost a longtime friend last year in a motorcycle accident. He was way too young to go. It shattered me but also his friends, fiance and family. Football is one of the most important things for me. But then again, there are things in life who put it in a completely different light. Take care of your loved ones, you never know how much time is given to you to be with them. Make what's given count. That is much more important than football.



Can't blame him. He said things too when he moved to Inter and it came around too, just like he said. This time it was his turn, rightfully. The team deserved it. And by team I mean everyone, from the owners to the management to Pioli to the players, because it's way too easy to scapegoating just one person when it's blatantly obvious that the whole system is falling apart.

If I was Pioli I'd print those words out and pin them in the dressing room. The whole world and @MilanMB were waiting for an occasion to proclaim our Scudetto a fluke. Right now we're giving them lots of arguments to be right. The team has to wake up and start fighting those voices, beginning with Hakans.
 

MilanMB

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The whole world and @MilanMB were waiting for an occasion to proclaim our Scudetto a fluke.
I can't speak for the whole world but I personally were waiting for an occasion to proclaim our scudetto wasn't a fluke. Like for example a successful follow up season.
Right now we're giving them lots of arguments to be right.
So... Why are you arguing when there's lots of arguments that we were right? :lol:

Fludetto of 2022

Just embrace it, we got lots of arguments.
 

taura

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how about we start playing like we used to instead?

 
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milanator

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I disagree, I don't think another defender will help us defend better. We are losing games in midfield, not in the back. I think we need to go back to the solid 4231 with a midfielder behind the striker, not a Brahim (or CDK) type.

Krunic is the best option once he's fit. Keep playing the 4231 but rotate a LOT more to keep everyone fresh and hungry. Changing formations when that's not really the problem will cause way more issues than it solves.
One more defender will free up the anchor from dropping back next the CBs to form the typical 3 atb rest defense we use. With the Anchor staying in front of the 3 man defense we should have more control in mid.
 

MilanBG

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People blaming the players when Pioli is destroying them with his incompetence daily. Just think about for a second how much players like Theo, Kalulu, Tomori, Giroud, Tonali and Bennacer regressed this season. These same players were kicking ass 6 months ago, now they look like an amateur team committing incredibly dumb mistakes and ruining every attack.
Add to this:
1. His complete inability to integrate the new players apart from the most average one.
2. His stubbornness to stick to a formation that is obviously not working
3. His complete lack of ideas how to move the ball in build up
4. His amateurish approach to set pieces both it defense and attack
5. His awful stats in Europe
6. His awful stats in Cup competitions
7. His stubbornness to approach games against merda in the same way. All they do is sit back and wait for us to make a mistake and then counter. And we keep on falling for this over and over again. Like complete idiots. One and the same thing happening literally every time for the past 4 years. A team consisting of players like Darmian, Di Marco, Acerbi and Mkhitaryan dominated us last night :lol:
8. His awful stats against English teams even with friendlies included

Don't at me, these are all facts. It's time for you to accept it that Pioli is an average coach (something we all knew when he was appointed) who overachieved once and then went back to mediocrity where he belongs.
 
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