The Rumour Commode XXXIX: A Cardinal Sin

[brk]

The lack of control in the middle is so strange given the level of season Tonali and Bennacer are having. Really the performances of their careers and yet Milan is shambolic at controlling possession and such

My tactical knowledge comes from 3 years of playing FM so if someone with more knowledge than that can break it down that'd be great

I'll try. Yesterday's game was really weird since both formations refused to counter each others' weakness. They played a 4312. Pioli tried to match them in midfield by having Theo cut inside all the time. That left Leao isolated against a single defender (their RB) and we all know how much damage he can do when he's against just one. Theo also was quick enough to run into the acres of space a 4312 leaves out wide. That's why we had so much space with Theo especially. He had a great game, sure, but tactically they just invited him to attack. Same on the other side with Kalulu but he's not Theo.

With their intense pressing and having an extra midfielder, we were never going to control possession. At least not until they tire and relent late in the game.

Defending we had a series of problems that were all interconnected, starting from the fact that we were up against 2 attackers with no wingers. That meant that Kjaer and Tomori were man marking one player each, with no free man to help. That's why they kept making those diagonal runs into the box that we can't defend, since you need another defender to cover ahead of you. Theo and Kalulu were always free. Sometimes they were the free man and got sucked inside to help, or pressed in midfield since they had more numbers there than we did. That left space in the LB/RB zone that Salzburg really punished us with. They'd quickly pass the ball, scare Kalulu into pressing, then quickly pass the ball into the space he vacated for an easy chance. They repeated this move at least 5 or 6 times all game. They rarely attacked us centrally, it was always by punishing the fact that our free fullbacks kept moving out of position. Rebic and Leao were useless as cover. Later on when Messias came on it was much better. I was surprised Pioli kept faith with the back four and didn't bring on Dest or Messias as a RWB sooner. The second early goal killed the game so maybe there wasn't any real need to take drastic measures. At that point we were more likely to score a third with all the space they're about to leave us than to concede three goals.

I think Bennacer was crucial yesterday. He was absolutely phenomenal at maintaining possession and breaking their press. No other player in our team was as good as he was at that, and this is how we would have lost the game, if we couldn't invite their pressure and break the press. Theo was excellent at this too, but he did take some unnecessary risks that could have punished us.

 

[gioiuzza]

For all the talk of how easily we could have conceded/how many chances Salzburg were allowed etc... we kept a clean sheet! And scored 4 goals!

In CL I don't expect us to totally dominate every team and not let them have a scoring opportunity. We haven't reached the knockouts in 9 years, we're not gonna suddenly be thrashing CL teams left and right. And yet we won 4-0 two games in a row, and with our backup GK.

I was so impressed with Pioli and the whole team last night, and still am. I know we all have the same dream of winning the CL again (I became a fan in 2009 so I've never even seen it!) but this is the progress we need. It won't all happen at once, and maybe we will get beaten in the next round, who knows. But I think the team will be so excited and so proud to be in the knockouts, and I expect them to make us proud too, whatever happens.

 

[brk]

I mentioned this in the match thread but I loved Leao's performance

Yeah he was selfish and a bit lazy in some decisions but that work rate from him you never really see it, easily the most I've seen him sprint on and off the ball

He's so weird. It's almost like dribbling for him is so easy he just doesn't know what to do on the other side. Almost like dribbling for him is the whole point, then 'oh well, now I guess I have to shoot, let's see where's the goal?'. He's absolutely unplayable until the point where he has to decide to shoot or pass of make that final decision. Once he learns how to be clinical and make good and fast decisions, he'll be a balon d'or winner. I had the same criticism last season, kept asking for him to just run and drill crosses. Late in the season when he started doing that we scored half a dozen goals from just that one move. He needs more automated actions up front, and less improvisation.

 

[taura]

Theo backup needs upgrading though.If Maldini manage to sign Italian LB(Parisi?)in this upcoming winter mercato that would be ideal.Out Ballo Toure,in either one of Vranckx,Thiaw or Adli...

Technically if Calabria and Florenzi are back, we can drop Dest for any of the mentioned names

 

[taura]

 

[brk]

Montolivo red carded the game before, right? I remember this was at the beginning of Atletico's rise, at that point I think most people were actually expecting us to win the tie.

 

[taura]

 

[taura]

Montolivo red carded the game before, right? I remember this was at the beginning of Atletico's rise, at that point I think most people were actually expecting us to win the tie.

Yeah I think so

also cool seeing how we went from lord Bonera to lord Krunic

 

[brk]

Technically if Calabria and Florenzi are back, we can drop Dest for any of the mentioned names

I don't think they'll both be back in time though. They're both still on the list, but probably won't be fit for the round 16 games. I think keeping Dest is more important than adding Vranckx, Thiaw or Adli. Dest can also play RW and LB so his versatility is a point in his favor.

 

[markony]

What a season Bennacer is having. Not going to the world cup, so he's going to be rested. Pioli learning how to rotate him (although we don't have a replacement yet. Tonali can't do what he does). Easily player of the season for me so far. Will be so angry if we don't manage to renew him soon.

Absoultely best midfielder we have. He's on of a kind, not much midfielders of his type. Boy can dictate tempo and solve tight situations in a second, and win ball, tackle and intercept, simply all. Really like Tonali, but Benna is on another level. And, yeah, we don't have alternative for him. Renewing Benna and Leao is crucial for us this year.

 

[brk]

Yeah I think so

also cool seeing how we went from lord Bonera to lord Krunic

Assistant manager Krunic in ten years training Camarda and the army of Moncada specials to be serial CL winners like he is.

 

[Kuroha]

Julian Alvarez
Enzo Fernandez
Mohammed Simakan

 

[Milan2012]

What a season Bennacer is having. Not going to the world cup, so he's going to be rested. Pioli learning how to rotate him (although we don't have a replacement yet. Tonali can't do what he does). Easily player of the season for me so far. Will be so angry if we don't manage to renew him soon.

A bit counter intuitive but the closest thing we have to his replacement is Krunic. Given ofc we havent seen enough of Vranckx.

 

[brk]

Absoultely best midfielder we have. He's on of a kind, not much midfielders of his type. Boy can dictate tempo and solve tight situations in a second, and win ball, tackle and intercept, simply all. Really like Tonali, but Benna is on another level. And, yeah, we don't have alternative for him. Renewing Benna and Leao is crucial for us this year.

He has two problems. Availability was a big problem but he's proving this season that maybe he's not that injury prone. The second is the lack of growth decree. Whatever we pay him, we need to pay more than 50% more in taxes. Growth decree players get around a 31% tax rate and regular players get 85%. At 4m net that means we're paying 2.16m more in taxes than if he was a growth decree player. This is a big deal, and probably a big reason why we couldn't renew Kessie. No team in Italy is abusing the growth decree like Maldini has. Right now Bennacer and Krunic are the only foreign players that aren't on the growth decree. Krunic is cheap, so he's not a problem. But Bennacer's taxes will add up, so we don't really have a competitive advantage over foreign clubs trying to sign him. I still think we'll make an exception for him with his current performances. He's just too damn good and he's not asking for crazy money like Kessie.

 

[AC_Wesley]

Does all this extra income mean we finally get a RW?

Let go of quality

Believe in quantity

Rebic, Salad, Messias, CDK, someone called Adli(?). We all good in the right wing department.

 

[brk]

A bit counter intuitive but the closest thing we have to his replacement is Krunic. Given ofc we havent seen enough of Vranckx.

Krunic is TERRIBLE in tight spaces. He has other important qualities, but damn does he lose the ball almost every time he's surrounded by two players.

 

[vB9]

Julian Alvarez
Enzo Fernandez
Mohammed Simakan

Botman
Sanches

 

[brk]

It was really nice that they sang the song for Leao when he was subbed out, Theo, and also an improvised one for Bennacer.

 

[Milan2012]

The lack of control in the middle is so strange given the level of season Tonali and Bennacer are having. Really the performances of their careers and yet Milan is shambolic at controlling possession and such

My tactical knowledge comes from 3 years of playing FM so if someone with more knowledge than that can break it down that'd be great

I think the issue breaks down to two positions, the CAM and Bennacer.

Depending on the defensive work rate of the CAM theres a lot of potential space you give up. If you play Brahim or CDK you loose a lot of space, because they have low defensive work rates. Krunic on the other hand does descent.

For Bennacer we dont have a straight replacement. That means someone whos good during possession. Tonali was quoted saying “in possession Bennacer is the player we look for”, because he moves well with the ball and has good passing. Tonali isnt the best in possession, he is better off the ball, deadballs or in the defensive phase. Pobega also lacks the control and reading of space. So when Bennacer isnt on the pitch no one fills that void, no focal point confident to pass the ball too. I think closest thing we have to a Bennacer replacement is Krunic, but hes also needed up the pitch.

 

[papaberlu]

I'll try. Yesterday's game was really weird since both formations refused to counter each others' weakness. They played a 4312. Pioli tried to match them in midfield by having Theo cut inside all the time. That left Leao isolated against a single defender (their RB) and we all know how much damage he can do when he's against just one. Theo also was quick enough to run into the acres of space a 4312 leaves out wide. That's why we had so much space with Theo especially. He had a great game, sure, but tactically they just invited him to attack. Same on the other side with Kalulu but he's not Theo.

With their intense pressing and having an extra midfielder, we were never going to control possession. At least not until they tire and relent late in the game.

Defending we had a series of problems that were all interconnected, starting from the fact that we were up against 2 attackers with no wingers. That meant that Kjaer and Tomori were man marking one player each, with no free man to help. That's why they kept making those diagonal runs into the box that we can't defend, since you need another defender to cover ahead of you. Theo and Kalulu were always free. Sometimes they were the free man and got sucked inside to help, or pressed in midfield since they had more numbers there than we did. That left space in the LB/RB zone that Salzburg really punished us with. They'd quickly pass the ball, scare Kalulu into pressing, then quickly pass the ball into the space he vacated for an easy chance. They repeated this move at least 5 or 6 times all game. They rarely attacked us centrally, it was always by punishing the fact that our free fullbacks kept moving out of position. Rebic and Leao were useless as cover. Later on when Messias came on it was much better. I was surprised Pioli kept faith with the back four and didn't bring on Dest or Messias as a RWB sooner. The second early goal killed the game so maybe there wasn't any real need to take drastic measures. At that point we were more likely to score a third with all the space they're about to leave us than to concede three goals.

I think Bennacer was crucial yesterday. He was absolutely phenomenal at maintaining possession and breaking their press. No other player in our team was as good as he was at that, and this is how we would have lost the game, if we couldn't invite their pressure and break the press. Theo was excellent at this too, but he did take some unnecessary risks that could have punished us.

That certainly explains yesterday's game but I meant more so overall on the season

Because it isn't an isolated thing, it's been there since matchday 1

Bennacer was incredible in the 2nd half but I thought the entire midfield trio was disappointing in the first. Theo IMO was MOTM and as you mentioned his job was certainly made easier without Salzburg adjusting for Leao/Theo on the flanks

 

[mrki]

Kalulu playing a world class match as rb. Loved it!! Our best rb by far!!

 

[vB9]

I'll take this

 

[papaberlu]

He's so weird. It's almost like dribbling for him is so easy he just doesn't know what to do on the other side. Almost like dribbling for him is the whole point, then 'oh well, now I guess I have to shoot, let's see where's the goal?'. He's absolutely unplayable until the point where he has to decide to shoot or pass of make that final decision. Once he learns how to be clinical and make good and fast decisions, he'll be a balon d'or winner. I had the same criticism last season, kept asking for him to just run and drill crosses. Late in the season when he started doing that we scored half a dozen goals from just that one move. He needs more automated actions up front, and less improvisation.

I mean

The final decision stuff can be applied to 99% of players, until you reach that mature age I think most will struggle with it

But what impressed me especially was Leao sprinting into space. I'm guessing it's a tactical thing where Pioli wants him to pick up the ball and drive it forward by beating his man but he is just so fast. He should be a menace off the ball

Maybe once the side's level of passing improves that can be incorporated more because atm there aren't many who can find players making runs into space

 

[vB9]

Let go of quality

Believe in quantity

Rebic, Salad, Messias, CDK, someone called Adli(?). We all good in the right wing department.

Dont forget Dest, now.

 

[joyrider]

Imagine if we also had proper ownership.

Proposer ownership?

I don’t know what that means.

 

[Milan2012]

Krunic is TERRIBLE in tight spaces. He has other important qualities, but damn does he lose the ball almost every time he's surrounded by two players.

Not true, hes played in the hole twice this season. Vs Udinese partnered with Bennacer, when we controlled possession. And Vs Verona partnered with Tonali where he completed more passes than him, despite playing 30 minutes less. Both times we won, both times he was disposed 0 times.

Also had few memorable appearances there last season.

 

[vB9]

Proposer ownership?

I don’t know what that means.

You used to.

 

[brk]

That certainly explains yesterday's game but I meant more so overall on the season

Because it isn't an isolated thing, it's been there since matchday 1

Bennacer was incredible in the 2nd half but I thought the entire midfield trio was disappointing in the first. Theo IMO was MOTM and as you mentioned his job was certainly made easier without Salzburg adjusting for Leao/Theo on the flanks

The story this season for me is our broken buildup. Ever since the injuries we've been having a really hard time building up smoothly. Theo has been shackled since we can't release him higher up. We end up just hitting the ball long, and badly (since it's the likes of Gabbia hoofing the ball, and not Kjaer hitting accurate diagonals). I don't think there's been any major problem in midfield itself, it's a buildup problem.

In defense we've conceded a lot of similar goals where our CBs go hunting and nobody covers their space. Happened against Napoli, Inter, Dinamo, and lots of other situations. Not sure what changed from last season, but the best guess is that teams started learning that it's a weakness to exploit and they try to drag them a lot more and run in behind. Kessie was very good at tracking back with any runners in midfield, better than all of our midfielders now i'd argue.

In the first half yesterday we were 3 midfielders against 4, and their whole gameplan is to suffocate the middle and press like crazy from all directions. It was an extreme situation that doesn't happen all the time, and they can't even sustain it for a whole game. We don't have a problem in midfield, we have a problem passing the ball out from the back.

 

[papaberlu]

I think the issue breaks down to two positions, the CAM and Bennacer.

Depending on the defensive work rate of the CAM theres a lot of potential space you give up. If you play Brahim or CDK you loose a lot of space, because they have low defensive work rates. Krunic on the other hand does descent.

For Bennacer we dont have a straight replacement. That means someone whos good during possession. Tonali was quoted saying “in possession Bennacer is the player we look for”, because he moves well with the ball and has good passing. Tonali isnt the best in possession, he is better off the ball, deadballs or in the defensive phase. Pobega also lacks the control and reading of space. So when Bennacer isnt on the pitch no one fills that void, no focal point confident to pass the ball too. I think closest thing we have to a Bennacer replacement is Krunic, but hes also needed up the pitch.

Yeah I agree with the CAM thing but Krunic was poor there yesterday in the first half. Also, he has really struggled to play that role this season in the 2-3 times he has been deployed there

On paper, you would think Tonali being the defensive bully and Bennacer being the creative force should work but it leaves massive holes. I guess I have to admit the side really misses Kessie. I thought the improvement in overall passing and ball retention would compensate for Kessie but it seems to have regressed

And no, I think the closest to Bennacer is Adli but clears throat

 

[brk]

I mean

The final decision stuff can be applied to 99% of players, until you reach that mature age I think most will struggle with it

But what impressed me especially was Leao sprinting into space. I'm guessing it's a tactical thing where Pioli wants him to pick up the ball and drive it forward by beating his man but he is just so fast. We should be a menace off the ball

Maybe once the side's level of passing improves that can be incorporated more because atm there aren't many who can find players making runs into space

Which is why I want Adli or CDK at AM soon. Brahim and Krunic have their qualities, but they can't consistently play that perfectly weighted pass into space.