The Rumour Commode XXXIX: A Cardinal Sin

[Cloren]

 

[Mario]

what realistic cf and rw we could buy?

thuram wouldn’t be very expensive because he has 6 months left but Bayern want him

 

[fray]

Atalanta down 2-0 to Spezia with our future GK Sportiello between the sticks.

 

[DonSilvio]

what realistic cf and rw we could buy?

Ziyech is doable

 

[Alo88]

What made Milan stronger was the some of the earlier spending by Elliott when Milan bought Leao, Bennacer, Theo and then Tonali, Tomori. These players are still the ones keeping Milan near the top. Then in the last year Elliott became extra miserly and the team hasn't really progressed in the last 1 / 1.5 years to jump to the next level. The new players mostly sit on the bench and don't contribute that much.

Juve management and policies were a mess. So spending unders those conditions is not going to be effective. Still, buying Vlaovich saved their season, as before his arrival at Juve it was looking very likely they would finish outside the the top 4. Inter also had loads of issues, financial problems, changing coaches etc...

The resurgance of modern Milan definitely began in the 19/20 season with Theo, Leao and Bennacer (though especially Leao took his three years to blossom). It continued with adding Tonali and Tomori in the 20/21 season as well as Mike Maignan in the 21/22 season. We tried to continue this trend with CDK as crown jewel in the 22/23 season. What you haven't nominated yet are the actual early days of Elliott with huge investments in Paqueta and Piatek. So where you draw this line between "back then" and "now", I only see constant building, sometimes with greater success (especially 19/20 and 20/21), sometimes with less greater success (18/19 and 22/23 as of now).

True that we always tend to weight most recent events more than those in the further past. But in fact I disagree that the building of this club has somehow happened at one point in the past and now we're still living from it - as you put it. It's always been a step-by-step procedure.

Why does it matter why Juves spending was badly managed? Maybe you say if they had more clever people to conduct that money they would be better off. I say more clever people probably would have prevented them from cooking the books, outspending competition and thus falsifying several years of Serie A – and not even for the better for them. And again, that's not just me saying it, that's what they are officially accused for by the government and it seems that those accusation have enough legs to get their whole management board retired mid-season.

 

[Alo88]

But it's been explained, many, many times before, that's not how it works. If you sell a player for 100m, you book those 100m as profit in that season, regardless of how the payments are structured.

If you then go and buy players for 70m, on the books, you split that over the entire amortization of the players contract.

I'm surprised that so many on here are confused by this.

Net spending per single year doesn't exist. It's a term journalists made up. This is why when it comes to FFP or any other financial regulations, it's looked at over several years.

100% true.

If I was comparing annual results from each clubs, what I just did definitely wouldn't have worked. This was a huge simplification for this years net spendings alone.

In fact, that's why Juve is getting cooked by the law as we speak. They apparently registred way too high values for the players they sold. The accusation is more or less: Juve and team X agreed to sell Juve-youthplayer A for 30M to team X. But Juve, instead of registering a plusvalenza of 30M, registered a wrong value, like 45M.

Or as if we officially sold Cutrone for 30M but registered a plusvalenza of 45M, so to speak. Suddenly we'd be financing us new players left and right and cheat the shit out of the league.

 

[Alo88]

Atalanta down 2-0 to Spezia with our future GK Sportiello between the sticks.

He tries to lower Atalantas demands from 5M to something doable. True teamplayer!

 

[SecondStar]

Spezia playing some good football against Atalanta rn. Hope they pull off the win.

 

[omer486]

The resurgance of modern Milan definitely began in the 19/20 season with Theo, Leao and Bennacer (though especially Leao took his three years to blossom). It continued with adding Tonali and Tomori in the 20/21 season as well as Mike Maignan in the 21/22 season. We tried to continue this trend with CDK as crown jewel in the 22/23 season. What you haven't nominated yet are the actual early days of Elliott with huge investments in Paqueta and Piatek. So where you draw this line between "back then" and "now", I only see constant building, sometimes with greater success (especially 19/20 and 20/21), sometimes with less greater success (18/19 and 22/23 as of now).

True that we always tend to weight most recent events more than those in the further past. But in fact I disagree that the building of this club has somehow happened at one point in the past and now we're still living from it - as you put it. It's always been a step-by-step procedure.

Why does it matter why Juves spending was badly managed? Maybe you say if they had more clever people to conduct that money they would be better off. I say more clever people probably would have prevented them from cooking the books, outspending competition and thus falsifying several years of Serie A – and not even for the better for them. And again, that's not just me saying it, that's what they are officially accused for by the government and it seems that those accusation have enough legs to get their whole management board retired mid-season.

Yeah, obviously you have to spend the money wisely, not just spend! Under Leonardo, the spending didn't help. Under MM the players like Theo, Leao, Bennacer, Tonali, Tomori, generally all worked out. I think CDK will also come good. I'm not linking the growth of the club to one point. More to to the acquisition of players that MM really wanted (Leao, Theo, Bennacer, Tonali, etc..) rather than cheap stopgaps that they were forced to buy to plug the gaps (Saladmaker, Messias, FBT, Thiaw, Bakayoko...).

What's to cook the books with Milan? Milan increased their revenues and reduced their wages. An extra 30 mil would maybe add just another 9 mil to the yearly book ( 6 mill amortization plus 3 salary). And you don't think with another 20-30 mil to spend MM could have found a much better RW than Salad /Messias? This would have really upgraded the the team to another level!

Do you really think last summer transfer allowance was determined as being the right amount for the good of Milan or because Elliott already did the deal to sell the club?? It's almost that you think that all the summer decisions of Elliott were primarily keeping in mind Milan and not their own financial interests!!

 

[Ash-ish]

Tonali so amazing best midfielder in the team by 12 inches.

 

[Curupira]

Much deserved sleep on that Salernitana goal

 

[CDarius]

Vrancx looks really interesting ngl

 

[Pingu]

After good things happen, it gets so quiet in here.

Too busy writing statements for when we don't win or don't sign any players, so they have ready-to-go ammunition. Tottenham next games will be fun.

 

[Rossonero81]

The man brings so much balance. Even Samaldinho can't resist him.

 

[Pingu]

Pioli to Sky:

On the game: “A good game but there are situations we can improve. We didn’t have the ability to close the game. It was important to win. We knew we worked well. Today I saw an attentive and good vertical team. It is the first step towards important goals.”

On performance: “Negative experiences make you understand what’s not working. The friendlies didn’t satisfy us and we corrected them. Then finding players of depth has given us something extra. We can face every game with conviction. There are difficulties but we want to claim a lot of points.”

On the Scudetto: “We are racing ourselves. We started off with a win. We know that we are in the middle of important weeks, we will play a lot and we will have to do an excellent job.”

On goals conceded: “We are conceding too many goals from crosses. It’s one of those aspects where we need to improve. Today was an avoidable goal.”

On Leao: “He has conviction and happiness of being here. I always tell him that his growth journey with us is not finished. Today he played a game with exactly the right attitude. Playing like this, he will soon become a champion. He worked continuously and attacked deeply. He worked with the team and for the team. He must continue like this. He must be with us because we are fine and we want to grow together.”

On De Ketelaere: “I liked him today. He’s physically better. The World Cup helped him to train well and also to catch his breath mentally. I’m sure of his qualities. I don’t want to repeat the same things but he has been with us for a few months and he has gone through many changes. Let’s remember Tonali and how much he put in. He is growing and will soon give us great satisfaction.”

 

[Ash-ish]

My goodness we need to keep Leao. That Mexican goal keeper was insane. We were creating so many great chances it was amazing.

Any incoming ball at 2 feet height we concede. It is our lack of concentration and not having a leader in the back.

Cdk was doing fine he is on his anti depressants very good. White shirt looked good in sunlight.

3 points very good job. As usual in spring we thrive

 

[Pingu]

It is our lack of concentration and not having a leader in the back.

Lack of not having a statue at the back.

 

[yungeddy]

Vrancx looks really interesting ngl

for 10 mill nicely done by Moncada

 

[Pingu]

for 10 mill nicely done by Moncada

Nice of Pioli to give him minutes too

 

[IL-Capitano]

Just watched the game - 3 points scoreline could have been more but points are all that matter the team looks determined to make up ground. On to the next game.

Forza Milan ️️

 

[Ash-ish]

Please extend Leao and Bennacer so that we can focus on the season. If we get a third midfielder, we will free Bennacer who moves best in our team.

 

[R.Akbar]

Just watched the game - 3 points scoreline could have been more but points are all that matter the team looks determined to make up ground. On to the next game.

Forza Milan ️️

Ochoa deserves a point or two for himself,

 

[IL-Capitano]

Ochoa deserves a point or two for himself,

He deserves a medal for bravery put his body on the line only for him it would have been a slaughter. Anyway 3 points for Milan. They move onto the game.

 

[Alo88]

Yeah, obviously you have to spend the money wisely, not just spend! Under Leonardo, the spending didn't help. Under MM the players like Theo, Leao, Bennacer, Tonali, Tomori, generally all worked out. I think CDK will also come good. I'm not linking the growth of the club to one point. More to to the acquisition of players that MM really wanted (Leao, Theo, Bennacer, Tonali, etc..) rather than cheap stopgaps that they were forced to buy to plug the gaps (Saladmaker, Messias, FBT, Thiaw, Bakayoko...).

We navigate on a restricted budget because we still are in the process of growing out of a disastrous economical situation build over a decade by two different managements and a pandemic. Isn't it normal within that process your team consists of a mix of that?

Besides, Salad and FBT are said to be Moncada scoutings. I think labeling them as stopgap solutions isn't fair, eventhough I agree both of them haven't fruited as well as hoped.

In the meantime we add piece by piece, year after year. Sometimes with great intuition (Kalulu, Giroud, MM), sometimes with less great intuition (Messias, Krunic, Adli).

What's to cook the books with Milan? [...]

You mentioned Juve's spending in the past years as fruitful building for upcoming years as an example to follow (namely Vlahovic). I disagreed, saying that they shouldn't have been allowed to do that, that they cheated the whole league for several years and that the government seems to agree. Juve's board retired mid-season is a further confirmation of the severness of their current situation.

That's all.

Do you really think last summer transfer allowance was determined as being the right amount for the good of Milan or because Elliott already did the deal to sell the club?? It's almost that you think that all the summer decisions of Elliott were primarily keeping in mind Milan and not their own financial interests!!

As I already wrote in a reply to leaf, I guess the written only nature of a discussion board, coupled with the fact that you can't but discuss one topic at a time without writing whole books, one can come across way more one-sided than he or she actually is. This is what I replied to patosheva in another post:

But yes, Elliott and RedBird will never outspend competition to a title, not like EPL teams do. We can't afford that. No one in Italy can. Those who tried nontheless are facing the consequences on court as we speak. Do I wish to see us spend at least a little bit more? Always. Who doesn't. But who am I to rudely demand them to spend millions and millions of euros who aren't even mine under circumstances I can't even entirely grasp with my restricted knowledge of the matter? I'm just a fan after all...

I may come across protective towards Elliott and Redbird. That doesn't mean I 100% agree with all their doings just as I don't presume you disagree with 100% of their doing. I don't think that spending another 20-25M this window would break our necks - that much we certainly agree. Please keep that in mind, otherwise I have to write some sort of disclaimer in my signature to make it clear under every single one of my posts where I'm not cursing at Gery or Redbird.

Actually... Maybe I'm going to do it anyway

 

[Rossonero81]

We navigate on a restricted budget because we still are in the process of growing out of a disastrous economical situation build over a decade by two different managements and a pandemic. Isn't it normal within that process your team consists of a mix of that?

Besides, Salad and FBT are said to be Moncada scoutings. I think labeling them as stopgap solutions isn't fair, eventhough I agree both of them haven't fruited as well as hoped.

In the meantime we add piece by piece, year after year. Sometimes with great intuition (Kalulu, Giroud, MM), sometimes with less great intuition (Messias, Krunic, Adli).

Do you know what kind of intuition led to the acquisition of Origi?

 

[Altafini]

Ochoa is insanely good, Our finishing in front of goal is heartbreaking,Tonality is a fine fine midfielder,Tata is not goalkeeper (he would done better if he had been a ballboy).. can't wait to have Mike back. We sincerely need a really good CF and RW. CDK needs a psychologist, dude's confidence is rock bottom. After today's win,it's nice seeing the gloominess here faints out a bit. 3pts......Forza Milan

 

[dcfcfan1]

Zaniolo injured?

 

[Ryo]

Do you know what kind of intuition led to the acquisition of Origi?

He was free and wanted to come.
Maldini went: "Good enough."

 

[brk]

Missed Calabria and Saele on the right side. When they subbed in Gabbia whole defense went to shit.

De Keetelare looked good today. Ochoa denied him a few goals.

Gabbia is not a footballer.

 

[brk]

Don't know if this is of interest, but it was fun to make it. I put the net spendings from player trading of this season (earnings minus spendings) of each team in comparision to their relative standings in the table (before todays restart). This is how it looks:

View attachment 13748


Some outtakes:

• Net-spending wise, Elliott/RedBird have spend more than any other team this summer -> If Elliott/RedBird are being stingy, then what are others in comparision?
• Napoli has done extremly well: leading the table by a large margin with a positive net spending (which means they earned more money from player trading than they spent).
• There is obviously no correlance between spending big and getting results.
• Spending cleverly is key, not spending per se.
• Feel free to add other outtakes if you want.

If we discuss last summers mercato, I don't think the issue might have been spending too little, but rather poorly, especially in hindsight. But then again, we're 2nd in the table, improved our CL run compared to last season and there's still a chance the new players might hit form for the 2nd half, so jury for me is still out with a good chance that this mercato might turn from a slightly negative rating into a positive one. Harsh critics now are definitelly too soon for me.

And again: No it's not true Elliott/RedBird don't spend money, especially compared to the rest of Serie A where we've been the most spending club, that's a fact. Sure if you sell someone for 100M, it's easier to go on the market and buy players for 70M and still regist a 30M positive. But if you're talking actual, real spending power, then net spending is the number you should be looking for.

I think a better format would be to see what effect net spending has had on previous season performance versus this season. I mean Salernitana can spend but being top of the table isn’t their target. Question is are the teams that spend doing better than they were last season?