The Rumour Commode XXXV: Champions Edition

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Hitchens

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He looks more promising that Botman , no ?
Actually, yes. Not as strong, but more agile and delightful with the ball. Looks like a phenomenal tackler, and he's only 19.

How much would he cost? TM has him at only 7m Euros.
 

milanator

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So....to be clear....you guys are arguing against highly rated players because they're expensive? :rolleyes:

Yes, it’s much better to buy underrated players that fit the squad like we do now.

Imo next step is to go more frequently for players in the 15-30m range, I hope we wont see a huge/high profile transfer for quite some time. Not worth it in todays football.
 

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Actually, yes. Not as strong, but more agile and delightful with the ball.

How much would he cost? TM has him at only 7m Euros.
Yeah , his price make him much more appealing than both Botman & Diallo based on our youtube scouting.
Omera & Faivre or someone who can play both RW/AM would be a great winter mercato.
Baily seems like a loan + option or fuck you ManU kinda move.
I dont mind it one bit.
 

Kmoney

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🚨 Contacts between #Milan and #Espanyol to try to find a square for #Castillejo (but there are 3 other Spanish clubs).

#Bailly was proposed by his agent at #Milan . It is a profile that may be of interest but not a first choice and no open negotiations at the moment

Longo
Shaving the wage bills brings me as much happiness as a new signing. Must be the Elliott effect
 

Hitchens

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Yeah , his price make him much more appealing than both Botman & Diallo based on our youtube scouting.
Omera & Faivre or someone who can play both RW/AM would be a great winter mercato.
Baily seems like a loan + option or fuck you ManU kinda move.
I dont mind it one bit.
Samu actually leaving should make Faivre/someone possible, no?
 

Rossonero81

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Actually, yes. Not as strong, but more agile and delightful with the ball. Looks like a phenomenal tackler, and he's only 19.

How much would he cost? TM has him at only 7m Euros.

What will he bring to the table that Pierre Goldenchild Kalulu doesn't? We lost an experienced defender and I don't see how we can replace him with a very young player. We need an alternative to Kjaer and Romagnoli.
 

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As things stand, Saele should be thrid choice right winger behind Messias and Florenzi.
 

Hitchens

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What will he bring to the table that Pierre Goldenchild Kalulu doesn't? We lost an experienced defender and I don't see how we can replace him with a very young player. We need an alternative to Kjaer and Romagnoli.
Look, I'm Kalulu's biggest supporter as our future CB, and I want him to play. But signing Omeragic now as the fourth CB with plenty of room to grow would be - if he's all that - a genius move in lieu of letting Romagnoli go in the summer while recovering Kjaer. We would then have Tomori/Kjaer/Kalulu/Omeragic while keeping an open mind to possibilities in the summer.
 

leaf

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That list are exceptions? If you look at the ratio of spending to performance at Man Utd, Barca, Chelsea, Tottenham, Juve (particularly on salaries to free players), Atletico, they've been abysmal.

Take Chelsea.

Who in their attack has justified their fee? Pulisic at 58m pounds? Werner at 47.5m pounds? Havertz cost them 72m pounds. Ziyech at 37m pounds?

Mendy at 22m pounds has done better than Kepa at 71.5m pounds.

Their best performers last year were Rudiger, Thiago Silva, Reece James, Azpilicueta, Christensen, Mason Mount, Jorginho, and Kante. Rudiger, Jorginho, and Kante are the only ones who came in for big money, Rudiger was thought of as a flop until Tuchel came in while many questioned Jorginho post-Sarri, so they could have been failures themselves, the rest are free transfers, academy players, or token transfer fees.

This is where we have such a major difference of opinion. You keep saying that how much we spend reflects our ambition. I think the way teams are scouting, constructing teams, and defining value is fundamentally changing. Sure, there's City, but they've spent over 1 Billion Euros to build their squad. United has spent the same. In contrast, we've spent about 235m on our entire squad, which is less than Chelsea have spent on Pulisic, Werner, Havertz, and Ziyech, alone.

The fact that our owners are building a stadium, pumping tons of money into the team (because of the previous owners), while having to handle the insane destruction of the previous administrations, to me, underlines their ambition. They want to win. Maldini wants to win. He didn't come to just build a "top 4" team and shrug. That's not in his mindset. But he's not going to pretend that we will spend like Berlusconi's time by breaking transfer records. And I'm fine with that.

My favorite period as a Milan fan was when Galliani (and his team) were smarter than everyone. When we were always finding value in players like Cafu, Stam, Seedorf, Kaka, and getting big-time performances from Pancaro and Favalli, and none of those players cost us a lot. Grabbing Ibra for nothing, Thiago Silva for peanuts? That was when I was at my most proud as a Milan fan.

I think that period of Milan management coupled with the banter era has smacked the "I think we should buy (most hyped player X) and (most hyped player Y)" out of me. I want to buy the next K2 from Genk, the next Salah from Basel, the next Lewa from Lech Poznan. Imagine the team Roma would have had if they just kept their best players like Alisson, Marquinhos, Rudiger, Pjanic, Paredes, Salah, Dzeko? Alisson was 7.5m, Marquinhos was 3m, Rudiger was 9m, Pjanic was 11m, Paredes was 6m, Salah was 20m, Dzeko was 15m. Many of them were loans with options. 71.5m for top-class players is amazing (Paredes, not so much, Pjanic was for a while, but you get my point). Unlike Roma, we don't need to sell our players (and we don't), and the guy who helped in a lot of these deals, Massara, is our guy. If Roma kept their squad together, they'd be one of the best teams in the world.

I'll end with this: I was curious and wanted to see what Newcastle fans thought and saw themselves, especially vis-a-vis Botman and Milan. Some of them were amazed they were going to beat us to a player, others joked about Milan being a small club (in comparison to them due to their financial might), but there was an element that I really liked; there were fans who said things to the effect of: "Milan really uses data, they're a smart club, so if they want Botman, he must be good." That's what I want. That if we are scouting a player, that means they must be good, even if others don't get it.

Yes, it’s much better to buy underrated players that fit the squad like we do now.

Imo next step is to go more frequently for players in the 15-30m range, I hope we wont see a huge/high profile transfer for quite some time. Not worth it in todays football.
You can't moneyball everything. I'm not asking for a $100M transfer here. I'm asking for a proven sure shot ~40M player.
There are always going to be transfer flops. But not every cheap signing works out either. I'm asking for somewhere in the middle.
Honestly I've lost count of the number of times we missed out on a great player and more importantly role player/cog in the machine over <2M
 

milanator

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I was hoping the analysis would show points gained and lost because of the errors, not just the total number of errors.

But we (and Roma) do have a disproportionate amount of errors in our games. Weird.

With us it is probsbly because of our aggressive style which creates more hot situations.

IMO with stuff like that it is also important how grey areas are handled, if a 60:40 decision lands on the 40 it‘s not necessarily a ref error per se.
 

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Look, I'm Kalulu's biggest supporter as our future CB, and I want him to play. But signing Omeragic now as the fourth CB with plenty of room to grow would be - if he's all that - a genius move in lieu of letting Romagnoli go in the summer while recovering Kjaer. We would then have Tomori/Kjaer/Kalulu/Omeragic while keeping an open mind to possibilities in the summer.
any cb that is purchased will be ahead of kalulu @cb in the depth chart
 

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Kane has 4 league goals this season, not sure if he is the best example atm.

With CF role we have tried everything, also proven in form players like Bacca, there isn‘t really a pattern for our bad streak pre Ibra.
If anything Maldini did quite well with cheap Ibra and Giroud.
Kane wanted to leave desperately.

I think pre Maldini our CF issues were rather straightforward - we bought strikers that couldnt help themselves much and our teamplay was as far as can be from cohesive and progressive.
 

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What will he bring to the table that Pierre Goldenchild Kalulu doesn't? We lost an experienced defender and I don't see how we can replace him with a very young player. We need an alternative to Kjaer and Romagnoli.
I mean, Botman is super young himself, and if he was the long-term successor to Kjaer, it's not like he's some grizzled vet himself, right?

Kjaer should be back by the start of next season, and it doesn't seem like we are particularly interested in any veteran CBs a la Kjaer, unless you want to count Bailly, and it seems more like his agent rustling interest more than anything else.

I wonder if the management's calculus is: Florenzi will be redeemed, making our RB rotation Calabria/Florenzi, Kalulu goes to CB full-time, Romagnoli is gone, they evaluate Kjaer in the summer, and if all is good, then they grab another young defender, so that the CB rotation is Tomori, Kjaer, Kalulu, (new guy). They see how Gabbia does on loan this season, or next, to assess what sort of investment they have to put in?

I just can't get over Omeragic being at the stadium. Especially with him hanging out with Zaccardo, who seems to be our unofficial-but-still-has-ties-to-the-management liaison. I would be surprised if he's not coming here, either in the winter (left at Zurich for the rest of the season) or in the summer.
 

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If Bremer is currently stronger than Tomori. Paired together, would = impenetrable.
 

Pingu

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As things stand, Saele should be thrid choice right winger behind Messias and Florenzi.
This strikes me as a poster who never saw a game we played with Florenzi at RW.

He was atrocious. Keep him as vice-RB but I never want to see him at RW after the performances there.
 

rossonero1

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This strikes me as a poster who never saw a game we played with Florenzi at RW.

He was atrocious. Keep him as vice-RB but I never want to see him at RW after the performances there.
That was also before the knee procedure he had done. Florenzi has looked like he's regained good form.
 

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You can't moneyball everything. I'm not asking for a $100M transfer here. I'm asking for a proven sure shot ~40M player.
There are always going to be transfer flops. But not every cheap signing works out either. I'm asking for somewhere in the middle.
Honestly I've lost count of the number of times we missed out on a great player and more importantly role player/cog in the machine over <2M
Is Tomori Moneyball? Tonali? Theo? Leao?
 

Birsaforever

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💯

I never want to buy a “guarantee” again.
Even less, “revelations” of the season with all the media hype like Vlahovic.
We have good scout, go find the Vlahovic (or Kalulu, and hopefully Kerkez why not?) that moved from his first club to Fiorentina for 2m(?).
We have the environment and time for them to grow into “guarantees”.
Sprinkle in some cheap veteran to fill roles while adding valuable experience.

I wouldn’t want the club to operate any different than how they are right now.
Maldini knows
 

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Like Hazard? Like Coutinho? Like Dembele? Like Maguire? Like Fred? Like Ndombele? Like Werner? Like Wan Bissaka? Fernando Torres to Chelsea? Mangala? Luka Jovic? Kepa? Joao Felix? Kaka to Madrid? Sheva to Chelsea? Redondo? Rivaldo? Those are just off the top of my head.

I understand what you're saying, but, it's not about money, a big part of it is luck, proper scouting, and knowing which players will actually fit your system and club's culture.

Man Utd and City have spent the same amount of money, but one club (City) is actually run well while United is a shit show.

I don't want Bailly, I really don't, but if he's just a stop gap for the summer, fine, why not? Meite was an important player last year, maybe Bailly will be the same? I honestly doubt we will grab him though.

I would rather be like City than United, but I don't really care how we do things as long as we win. Atalanta has shown how to build a strong team for lower wages and even lower transfer fees. Being well run is the most important. Having the massive financial might of Elliott means we don't have to sell anyone we don't want to and can afford to let players leave on free transfers because we want to preserve our structure while rewarding those who stay handsomely.

Theo, Tomori, Leao, Tonali, Maignan, Adli, Bennacer, Calabria, this is our core, and cost us like 140? That's Joao Felix.

Florenzi, Messias, Giroud, Maignan, have all been huge additions to this squad, while it looks like Bakayoko might finally be turning the corner. Toure has had some good games, and some horrific ones, but, with time, we will see how those gambles pay off.

Because I'd rather take a small gamble on Pellegri than a 200m Kane. 200m in Maldini's hands is probably a CL winning team, lol. Giroud has scored more in the league than Kane, so, Maldini's striker gambles have been working. Ibra has scored at an insane level for us. The challenge will be a long term option, sure, but the lack of strikers is why Vlahovic is the most coveted young striker, there are just so few out there.
There are many times when players do perform or meet the 'guarantee' - Ibra everywere he has been, CR7 to Real and to Juve, Rooney to United, Sheva to us, R9, Eto'o, Zidane, Beckham, Drogba, Neymar, etc etc.
Dropping down a level - Kun, Benzema, Walker and Sterling to City, Barella to Inter
Its all fine and good to point out exceptions but lets not speak like if the exceptions are the rule or at the very least lets assume that both ways have wins and losses.

As a SD you would honestly take Pellegri over Kane if you could afford Kane?????
You have also pencilled in Adli who hasnt even worn our colours yet and Bennacer who has ye to confirm consistent output.

Yes we are working smart and things are progressing but all isnt exceptional and beyond criticism.
Also no player has been rewarded handsomely yet...only Ibra :proud:
 

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I mean, Botman is super young himself, and if he was the long-term successor to Kjaer, it's not like he's some grizzled vet himself, right?

Kjaer should be back by the start of next season, and it doesn't seem like we are particularly interested in any veteran CBs a la Kjaer, unless you want to count Bailly, and it seems more like his agent rustling interest more than anything else.

I wonder if the management's calculus is: Florenzi will be redeemed, making our RB rotation Calabria/Florenzi, Kalulu goes to CB full-time, Romagnoli is gone, they evaluate Kjaer in the summer, and if all is good, then they grab another young defender, so that the CB rotation is Tomori, Kjaer, Kalulu, (new guy). They see how Gabbia does on loan this season, or next, to assess what sort of investment they have to put in?

I just can't get over Omeragic being at the stadium. Especially with him hanging out with Zaccardo, who seems to be our unofficial-but-still-has-ties-to-the-management liaison. I would be surprised if he's not coming here, either in the winter (left at Zurich for the rest of the season) or in the summer.
I think regardless of how Kulalu does they'll bring in a CB now then another one in the summer to probably replace Romagnoli.
 

Birsaforever

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This strikes me as a poster who never saw a game we played with Florenzi at RW.

He was atrocious. Keep him as vice-RB but I never want to see him at RW after the performances there.
That was in his poor form and he played RW to get some fitness because he would have been a total liability at RB. With his current form he can't do both and i think he can easily outperform Saelemaekers, so when Calabria and Kalulu are in good condition i think we have another RW option in Florenzi.
 

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Im behind... why r u guys talking about Omeragic? Any links or just fanta mercato?
 

leaf

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Is Tomori Moneyball? Tonali? Theo? Leao?
Tonali was playing well and highly rated. He wasn't an out-of-nowhere signing. At the end of the day, with bonuses he could end up costing 25M
Leao and Tomori both came for >20M...which is a decent amount. They are lesser known for sure but didn't come dirt cheap

I'm all for smart purchases that don't break the bank...but we need players like Faivre for this amount and we seem to be going on the cheap because...reasons

I think we are speaking past each other a little bit. I am not saying to break the bank on a world class player atm.
 

MilanBG

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Well, well, well.
Let me get this straight. FBT tested positive today. He will be in isolation for 10 days. Then he will have a PCR test when returning to Italy where he will be in 10 days of isolation again. Am I missing something?
 
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