The Tactics Thread

[Senatore_M84]

To be fair Ronaldo played on the wing in the Premiership, where they're more likely to foul you, whether it be a body check, clip in the legs, or a cruncher from behind. Mainly because the game is so quick and you get away with more. Ronaldo's a freak. He's so complete that he would excell in any league.

Well Ronaldo would be a star in any league. No denying. My point was tactically he'd be used in the shevchenko #7 striker role in italy. And Messi IMO would excell in a role similar to Kaka.... #10 behind 2 strikers in italy

You may get fouled a lot in england but you completely miss my point. Premier league is the league where pacey wingers are most prosperous cause it's a fast counter attacking league. I mean does ANY team use a centralized formation in england?

Italian teams play slower, compact, tactical. DONT GIVE UP THE COUNTER is there philosophy. Watch teams play and the back 7 NEVER come out. Now Ronaldo is amazing but when they are sitting w/ 3 deep on a back 4, whats he gonna do all outwide. If he manages to beat the side midfielder and FB he'll be fouled hard. He really will have a lot harder time from that far out (we're talking side midfield like in a 4-4-2) cutting in....

It's a subtle difference in way football is played in all leagues is my point. World class player can play anywhere, it's just the small changes they'd make to where they line up to make them do best.

In england, coaches would rather play theo walcott cause he's fast. In Italy they'd rather play a 34 year old Patrick Vieira cause of his tactical prowless

 

[manutd fan]

Well Ronaldo would be a star in any league. No denying. My point was tactically he'd be used in the shevchenko #7 striker role in italy. And Messi IMO would excell in a role similar to Kaka.... #10 behind 2 strikers in italy

You may get fouled a lot in england but you completely miss my point. Premier league is the league where pacey wingers are most prosperous cause it's a fast counter attacking league. I mean does ANY team use a centralized formation in england?

Italian teams play slower, compact, tactical. DONT GIVE UP THE COUNTER is there philosophy. Watch teams play and the back 7 NEVER come out. Now Ronaldo is amazing but when they are sitting w/ 3 deep on a back 4, whats he gonna do all outwide. If he manages to beat the side midfielder and FB he'll be fouled hard. He really will have a lot harder time from that far out (we're talking side midfield like in a 4-4-2) cutting in....

It's a subtle difference in way football is played in all leagues is my point. World class player can play anywhere, it's just the small changes they'd make to where they line up to make them do best.

In england, coaches would rather play theo walcott cause he's fast. In Italy they'd rather play a 34 year old Patrick Vieira cause of his tactical prowless

Nah I do get you, but what I mean is Ronaldo doesn't really play as a "fast winger", which may sound stupid as he's quick and has played on the wing lol, but he's not the type to take on a fullback, get to the byline ect.

Ronaldo isn't really a winger now full stop. He's a forward, and has been since 07/08. You don't put him on the right to act like a Walcot or Lennon. You'd tell him to cut inside, drift inside to create space for himself/others. I think you're forgetting that Ronaldo has played many games against defences that are so defensive they don't even have a shot on the opposition's goal. And in those games, even by the off chance you manage to take on the fullback, you're going to get hacked down anyway. The transformation in Ronaldo was amazing. In 06/07 he was a flying winger, 20 goals, 20 assists. The next season he changed so much that you could count on 1 hand the amount of times he "skinned the fullback".

You're right that if Ronaldo was in Italy, he wouldn't play as a winger, but truth is he hasn't been a winger in 4 years. He's pretty much the complete forward these days.

I'm sure I've said this before, but in the past Mourinho has said he sees Ronaldo playing a similar style/position to that of Van Basten.

 

[Sage]

I had this thought in my head for some time, if Milan have TERRIBLE fullbacks, why cant Allegri switch to a 3-5-1/3-4-1-2/3-4-3?

with the right players and right organisation this formation cant miss

------------------------Abs-----------------

--------------Nesta----Yepes-----Silva------

------------Rino/Flamini------------Boateng/Ambrosini
Oddo/Abate---------------Pirlo----------------------Jankulovski/Antonini


---------------------Pato-------Ibra------------------------


I prefer a 3-5-2 and I truly believe if allegri actually gave it some thought a 3 man defense is the way to go.

 

[Sonny.Bill.Williams]

Wrote about it in the formations thread .. . 3-5-2 to a 5-3-2 . . visionary .but you cant play with a 3-man backline

 

[Sage]

Wrote about it in the formations thread .. . 3-5-2 to a 5-3-2 . . visionary .but you cant play with a 3-man backline

my point is attacking and defending wing backs, when we are defending its 5-3-2, when we are attacking its a 3-5-2, its all about a balance and using our players to their strengths and attacking as ateam and defending as one, which is why it lacks players like seedorf and Ronaldinho. I believe this formation can work but its never going to happen.

 

[Jasper]

Wrote about it in the formations thread .. . 3-5-2 to a 5-3-2 . . visionary .but you cant play with a 3-man backline

[ ] - visionary
[x] - can't play with 3-man backline

 

[Dalilah]

A Tactics Thread in AC Milan fan forum? Seriously?
It's AC Milan, synonym midfield diamond, synonym deep sitting playmaker, synonym Andrea Pirlo. You should kill that guy first and then start to discuss tactical difference

 

[Jasper]

A Tactics Thread in AC Milan fan forum? Seriously?
It's AC Milan, synonym midfield diamond, synonym deep sitting playmaker, synonym Andrea Pirlo. You should kill that guy first and then start to discuss tactical difference

 

[Dalilah]

Actually, Jasper, my post contains fragments of deep-laying truth that normally isn't let out of the depth of the suppressed subcounscious... whatever. I'll visit Estonia somehow, seems that you guys are having real fun over there

 

[dev1L]

 

[dev1L]

 

[Australiano1980]

A british guy making tactical explanations?!?

wonder if he really knows something besides the 4-4-2.

 

[MilanMB]

 

[gaizka22]

Guys, try to find a book tittled "Inverting the Pyramid - The History of Football Tactics" by Jonathan Wilson. The tittle says it all, the formation that changed football. From WM, 2-3-5, Catenaccio, Brazilian 4-2-4, Total Football all the way to the current tactics. The book discussed how each formation evolves, what's the main movement of the formation etc.

The last chapter discussed about the current tactics but I felt it wasn't comprehensive enough as it tried to encompass all the current trend. The last formation that was pondered and discussed was Milan under Sacchi.

Very good read. It will give you less head scratching and hair pulling whenever you watch a game because you will get some ideas what the coach is trying to do or what the team is trying to accomplish.

 

[manutd fan]

Australian plan is great

 

[Fiero]

Palermo vs Milan: How it Happened Tactically

In the opening ten minutes, Milan was awful. Palermo dominated, focusing on the left side of Flamini and Jankulovski. Creating an offensive triangle of Illicic, Pastore and Pinilla that held the ball well and threatened to cause trouble. While Darmian and to a higher extent, Balzaretti, offered width by making overlaps. After the goal, Balzaretti and Darmian stopped overlapping, creating a defensive wall of 8 players by Palermo. But with time moving on, Milan started improving. Milan was poor at the start because of static Seedorf, Cassano and Pato. But after the goal, soon enough Pato started moving. The main problem was the lack of creativity from the center midfield duo Gattuso and Flamini. As Palermo closed the gaps, Abate gave some nice overlaps, Seedorf started dropping deep to get the ball and Cassano started moving a little therefore Milan became a bit more dangerous. Palermo was happy to sit back by 8 players closing any space and countering.

In the 2nd half, Milan tried to get some width with Cassano on the left and Abate's overlaps. Boateng came on but had little effect, his entrance though shifted Seedorf to central midfield which made Milan control more of the tempo as Palermo happily sat back in numbers. With Robinho's entrance in Pato's place due to injury, Milan once again changed shape. To get width in order to break Palermo's compact defense, Robinho operated as a right winger, with Cassano occupying the left flank. However, this left no pure striker in the box. Boateng looked lost through Palermo's defense and Milan kept possession but didn't create. Palermo looked dangerous on the counter through Pastore, and then through Hernandez when he came on. Balzaretti was comfortable going forward in counters to give Palermo extra numbers in attack, which were very dangerous and could have resulted in the 2-0.

Despite Milan dominating possession in the 2nd half, Palermo always looked closer to the second goal than Milan was to the equalizer. Not an entertaining performance by Palermo, but nonetheless a deserved win.

 

[dev1L]

 

[Sonny.Bill.Williams]

Understanding Italian Football

Great read for newbies to Serie A ....6 Part introduction to Serie A etc etc to much to copy so posted the links


Understanding Italian football - Fantasia

Understanding Italian football - Furbizia

Understanding Italian football - The evolution of tactics in Serie A since Calciopoli part one



Understanding Italian football - The evolution of tactics in Serie A since Calciopoli part two

Understanding Italian football - The emigration and cycle of Italian Coaches part 1


Understanding Italian football - The emigration and cycle of Italian Coaches part 2

 

[Sonny.Bill.Williams]

Leaked Scout report of André Villas Boas whilst at Chelsea

The detail in this report of newcastle is immense

Chelsea went on to win the game 3-0

 

[Calum1903]

In Defence of Hoofball

When did possession football become synonymous with “good” football? More and more teams are now trying to adopt a fashionable tactic that they have neither the technical nor the tactical ability to carry out effectively. It’s more exciting to watch, we’re told.

However, poor teams who try to play “the right way” invariably end up playing a directionless series of passes that leads to them getting boxed in and having to make a clearance. When that clearance drops, there’s no target man there to meet it and there’s nobody ready to scrap for the second ball. After suffering countless hours of this walking-paced purgatory, I can tell you that there’s nothing exciting about it.

Thankfully, I have the solution: long ball. Proper, systematic long ball.

I don’t care how Barcelona play – I’m fucking sick of watching sub-standard SPL and EPL teams labouring to get out of their own half. Bad teams, in the absence of a quality ball player, will always have to go long. So instead of fighting the inevitable, they should embrace it.

With a reliable target man as its focal point, any team can consistently advance the game 60 yards. With midfielders moving in support of that target man, a team increases the likelihood of managing to get their creative players on the ball, facing forward, before the opposition has time to double up on them. Alternatively, pumping balls over the top of the opposition defence for a hardworking striker (see Olic, Mackie etc.) to chase frequently forces set-pieces. More set-pieces mean more opportunities to get dangerous balls in the box.

Stoke are a prime example of the above: by simplifying their game, they actually create more action in the final third and more opportunities for their more talented attackers to shine. Isn’t that what we all want to see?

Long ball could be the saviour of football. Sadly, I fear that none of you are sufficiently progressive-minded to realise it.

 

[Ashish]

My two cents
Winning football with lot of marketable players is always the right football.................

How many people watch football to have in-depth knowledge or even if they how many would succeed?


For me any team with a trequista is a good football and any player who is not limited is a good player.......

Long ball wont work unless you have an ibra or drogba in their team, double mark it and team needs to change, i think its your country who started passing football ... more players involved more options thats what I think barcas strength is

Milan 2002 -2005 greatest team of the decade managed by a manager with least killer instinct
Getting worked up on different views or popular view is just Uncalum like

 

[Sven]

I think the current Porto is a good example of a team playing awesome football without a possession-oriented style. They rely on raw speed, strenght and have a very direct and forward oriented style of passing also. They make a massive use of long-balls, aerial chalenges and are deadly on the counters.

 

[Calum1903]

I think the current Porto is a good example of a team playing awesome football without a possession-oriented style. They rely on raw speed, strenght and have a very direct and forward oriented style of passing also. They make a massive use of long-balls, aerial chalenges and are deadly on the counters.

I haven't watched a lot of Porto this season, but I've enjoyed what I've seen. I love fast football.

 

[Kalac#16]

When did possession football become synonymous with “good” football? More and more teams are now trying to adopt a fashionable tactic that they have neither the technical nor the tactical ability to carry out effectively. It’s more exciting to watch, we’re told.

However, poor teams who try to play “the right way” invariably end up playing a directionless series of passes that leads to them getting boxed in and having to make a clearance. When that clearance drops, there’s no target man there to meet it and there’s nobody ready to scrap for the second ball. After suffering countless hours of this walking-paced purgatory, I can tell you that there’s nothing exciting about it.

Thankfully, I have the solution: long ball. Proper, systematic long ball.

I don’t care how Barcelona play – I’m fucking sick of watching sub-standard SPL and EPL teams labouring to get out of their own half. Bad teams, in the absence of a quality ball player, will always have to go long. So instead of fighting the inevitable, they should embrace it.

With a reliable target man as its focal point, any team can consistently advance the game 60 yards. With midfielders moving in support of that target man, a team increases the likelihood of managing to get their creative players on the ball, facing forward, before the opposition has time to double up on them. Alternatively, pumping balls over the top of the opposition defence for a hardworking striker (see Olic, Mackie etc.) to chase frequently forces set-pieces. More set-pieces mean more opportunities to get dangerous balls in the box.

Stoke are a prime example of the above: by simplifying their game, they actually create more action in the final third and more opportunities for their more talented attackers to shine. Isn’t that what we all want to see?

Long ball could be the saviour of football. Sadly, I fear that none of you are sufficiently progressive-minded to realise it.

Are you MON in disguise?

This reads like the Aston Villa guide to football 05-09.

 

[Sage]

meh, stoke are boring, im not saying its not effective tho.


which reminds me, teams who concede from delap's throw ins should be relegated at that instance.




I doubt shit serie A teams can play long ball tho, apart from brescia, they should have played that instead of the shit they are doing now which is getting them relegated.

 

[Dwa Milan]

honestly, I hate long ball strategy..
when you're playing as a midfielder having your defender keep hoofing the ball and makes you do plenty useless off the ball running is annoying as hell

possession mixed with direct play, and fast movement is my preference,

 

[The Bear]

That was Charles Reep-esque, Calum, and although I disagree with the attractive quality in long ball football, it's becoming tiresome to hear that Barcelona play it "the right way". Possession this, possession that, it's all I fucking hear nowadays. Milan, who similarly prefer a passing game (minus the mind-numbingly slow sideways passing sessions and with some more Brazilian flair), had over 70% possession against Palermo and were still the worse team in both games. I despise this notion that a team who has more of the ball is in control of the game - it's simply another form of defense, passing it across your back four.

Just because someone talks more doesn't mean they dominate the conversation.

 

[A_Wild_Homosexual]

Better in another thread ....

 

[Dinar]

Simeone Deserves More Time at Catania
MAY 13TH, 2011 BY STEFANO GULIZIA

In his BPF debut, Stefano Gulizia of the Catch 22 blog gives us an in depth look at Serie A side Catania who sit midtable after a solid season.

http://backpagefootball.com/featured/simeone-deserves-more-time-at-catania/

 

[acmilan4ever]

@Dinar, that image is the tactics of Chile NT not Catania

BPF really fucked up hahha