Champions League 2011-2012

Who Will Win The 2011-2012 Champions League?


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Casualista

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Dont see Udinese winning it as well. Arsenal will most probably overwhelm them with their passing. All the chips are falling into place like Galliani said. French Ligue 1 next to overtake italian football.

But man I would give anything for Udinese to win against Arsenal just to watch the mass exodus at arsenal that might happen if they do win. It would be clear if they win that Arsenal's progression curve is sloping downward rather than up and future isnt that bright. Comeonnnnn Koscielny , Squilaci, Jenkinson. MAKE ME PROUD :D :D
 

necromancer

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He has played in the pre-season friendlies so far...

Regardless, I just dont see Udinese going through. Di Natale is good but a big part of their creative outlet came from Sanchez and Inler.

They lost their top forward

They lost their top midfielder

They lost their top defender

Regardless of what replacements they got and whether or not if they will turn out decent, it will still take time for them to adjust....

Arsenal would be just too much for them....

That's a fair review, but let's see.

Dont see Udinese winning it as well. Arsenal will most probably overwhelm them with their passing. All the chips are falling into place like Galliani said. French Ligue 1 next to overtake italian football.

But man I would give anything for Udinese to win against Arsenal just to watch the mass exodus at arsenal that might happen if they do win. It would be clear if they win that Arsenal's progression curve is sloping downward rather than up and future isnt that bright. Comeonnnnn Koscielny , Squilaci, Jenkinson. MAKE ME PROUD :D :D

Nah, Ligue 1 wont easily get ahead of Serie A. Check out the co-efficients.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_coefficient#Current_ranking

As you know, they are added up for the previous 5 years, and Serie A leads Ligue 1 in all of those years. I find it difficult to see Ligue 1 getting ahead unless Serie A performs consistently bad for 4 or 5 seasons from now on. As long as Milan and Inter are strong, the CL points alone should keep Italy ahead of France.

Also, Udinese losing is actually good for Italy's co-eff. They have chances of doing more good to the co-eff in the Europa League where they would drop to, if they lose this tie.
 

Ash

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That's a fair review, but let's see.



Nah, Ligue 1 wont easily get ahead of Serie A. Check out the co-efficients.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_coefficient#Current_ranking

As you know, they are added up for the previous 5 years, and Serie A leads Ligue 1 in all of those years. I find it difficult to see Ligue 1 getting ahead unless Serie A performs consistently bad for 4 or 5 seasons from now on. As long as Milan and Inter are strong, the CL points alone should keep Italy ahead of France.

Also, Udinese losing is actually good for Italy's co-eff. They have chances of doing more good to the co-eff in the Europa League where they would drop to, if they lose this tie.

Bleh....

I'm pretty sure those idiots would blow off the EL too...
 

Pipa

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I really really want Udinese to put up a good show and beat the Gunners.
So much for Wenger's scouting wizardry, there are teams who depend on their scouting networks as well.. say Udinese.
 

Casualista

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That's a fair review, but let's see.



Nah, Ligue 1 wont easily get ahead of Serie A. Check out the co-efficients.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_coefficient#Current_ranking

As you know, they are added up for the previous 5 years, and Serie A leads Ligue 1 in all of those years. I find it difficult to see Ligue 1 getting ahead unless Serie A performs consistently bad for 4 or 5 seasons from now on. As long as Milan and Inter are strong, the CL points alone should keep Italy ahead of France.

Also, Udinese losing is actually good for Italy's co-eff. They have chances of doing more good to the co-eff in the Europa League where they would drop to, if they lose this tie.

mhmmm kinda busy but saving the long reply for later. Anyway on the side note: I would have preferred Udinese to do a Bremen i.e. make it to UCL> Finish 3rd in group> Go to Europa> Reach finals. :tongue: Btw I dont watch Europa so can you tell me how the French teams are doing there in past couple of years?
 

ladro

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What does it matter if france and even portugal pass italy? Still the same amount of european places. Now lose out to ukraine and then id be time to really worry:o

And i stopped bothering with italian clubs in europe. Most of the promising/entertaining talents are leaving, the stadiums are still a pile of shit and will take years to improve overall + both galiani and abete incompetently whining and crying to the press how everything if falling apart made me lost hope for italians and football. Just buy aquaman + a AM, forza milan the rest can fail miserably.....and they will anyway.

Udine will obviously loose to arsenal....unless arsenal starts being arsenal early this season.:)
 

The Bear

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You're all quite the pessimists, although I don't hold out much hope for Udinese myself. The worst-possible draw would've been Bayern as they're a stronger outfit, but this is an Arsenal side almost in complete disarray. Guidolin won't go to London and park the bus, and Arsenal's defense will have their hands full with Di Natale.

Aside from van Persie, the absence of starters like Nasri and, perhaps, Fabregas will be a great disadvantage given that they'll be up against strong, quick midfielders like Isla, Asamoah and Armero. It's worth noting that the away leg is sandwiched between Liverpool at home and Man United away, so an Arsenal win isn't a formality at all.

Stranger things have happened, but you all seem keen on becoming little Galliani hybrids in your whinging about calcio, when in reality, his intentions aren't to lambaste Italian football as much as to put pressure on parliament for the stadium rule to go through.
 

necromancer

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^The last bit is spot on.

I watched both Udinese and Arsenal reasonably frequently last season, and honestly don't see a difference between the two midfields, IF Nasri and Fabregas are absent.
 

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2 - Arsenal have conceded just two goals in total in their eight CL Qualifying matches, scoring 21. Impenetrable

8 – Arsenal have won all 8 of their games in the Champions League play-offs. Formality.


http://twitter.com/#!/OptaJoe

Udinese should play reserves and deal with Europa League later.
 

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Dinamo is going all the way to the final this year.
 

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Last season I could see Udinese beating Arsenal. As a matter of fact, I'd probably even have put my money of it, since Udinese was one of the best counterattacking teams at the time. But without Sanchez and Zapata? I'm not so sure

But yeah, agree with Bear. Better Arsenal than Bayern I suppose
 

Pipa

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You're all quite the pessimists, although I don't hold out much hope for Udinese myself. The worst-possible draw would've been Bayern as they're a stronger outfit, but this is an Arsenal side almost in complete disarray. Guidolin won't go to London and park the bus, and Arsenal's defense will have their hands full with Di Natale.

Aside from van Persie, the absence of starters like Nasri and, perhaps, Fabregas will be a great disadvantage given that they'll be up against strong, quick midfielders like Isla, Asamoah and Armero. It's worth noting that the away leg is sandwiched between Liverpool at home and Man United away, so an Arsenal win isn't a formality at all.

Stranger things have happened, but you all seem keen on becoming little Galliani hybrids in your whinging about calcio, when in reality, his intentions aren't to lambaste Italian football as much as to put pressure on parliament for the stadium rule to go through.

If pre-season form has given any indicaton. I'd only worry about Wilshere and Gervinho.
 

laxman

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Champions League play-off round draw

Champions route

Wisla Krakow v Apoel

Maccabi Haifa v Genk

Dinamo Zagreb v Malmo

FC Copenhagen v Viktoria Plzen

Bate Borisov v Sturm Graz

League route

Odense v Villarreal

FC Twente v Benfica

Arsenal v Udinese

Bayern Munich v Zurich

Lyon v Rubin Kazan
 

Senatore_M84

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You're all quite the pessimists, although I don't hold out much hope for Udinese myself. The worst-possible draw would've been Bayern as they're a stronger outfit, but this is an Arsenal side almost in complete disarray. Guidolin won't go to London and park the bus, and Arsenal's defense will have their hands full with Di Natale.

Aside from van Persie, the absence of starters like Nasri and, perhaps, Fabregas will be a great disadvantage given that they'll be up against strong, quick midfielders like Isla, Asamoah and Armero. It's worth noting that the away leg is sandwiched between Liverpool at home and Man United away, so an Arsenal win isn't a formality at all.

ehhh. Inler (and zapata) to me are bigger losses. Inler is a midfield monster for them, and they really have no one capable of replacing him. Whoever arsenal have in CM will have a much easier time feeding their forwards.

Stranger things have happened, but you all seem keen on becoming little Galliani hybrids in your whinging about calcio, when in reality, his intentions aren't to lambaste Italian football as much as to put pressure on parliament for the stadium rule to go through.

someone with a brain/analytic skills.

It's pretty obvious what his goal is. Pressure italian football into reforms he's been asking for for years.... but you know i've given up hope most people have ability to actual read between the lines.
 

MilanMarkus

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Last season I could see Udinese beating Arsenal. As a matter of fact, I'd probably even have put my money of it, since Udinese was one of the best counterattacking teams at the time. But without Sanchez and Zapata? I'm not so sure

But yeah, agree with Bear. Better Arsenal than Bayern I suppose

I would love to see Udinese beat Arsenal, but I think they don't have a chance. Even without Fabregas and Nasri, there is still Wilshere, Van Persie, Vermaelen and Gervinho to name a few. Arsenal was actually one of the very few teams that could offer resistance against Barcelona last year. They are simply in an other league than Udinese.

BTW Udinese made a shitload of money this transfer window:

Sanchez 37 million
Inler 18 million
Zapata 9 million
Total 64 million

64 million is probably twice their annual budget!

Napoli on the other hand have further improved again. I don't see much of their games but their midfield was said to be rather thin and now they added Donadel, Inler and Dzemaili as well as Britos and Santana. I can't wait to see them being tested in the CL.
 
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Sage

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I guess its better for Milan that Udinese win the playoff game but I honestly couldn't care less, Arsenal are going to thrash them.
 

The Bear

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ehhh. Inler (and zapata) to me are bigger losses. Inler is a midfield monster for them, and they really have no one capable of replacing him. Whoever arsenal have in CM will have a much easier time feeding their forwards.
Definitely, and I don't think the loss of Sanchez alone is what kills their chances of progressing. Inler and Zapata were hugely important in their successful season; Sanchez came to life after the winter break, went on a brilliant run of form, got injured for a couple of games and slowed down a little. Had Zapata, and especially Inler stayed, I would've been far more hopeful of them progressing.

But to expect this Arsenal side to suddenly raise their game after a miserable pre-season with an unsettled squad, suspensions to key players and a difficult start to the season, and "thrash" Udinese is a little unrealistic. Even the most optimistic Arsenal fan wouldn't expect a walkover.

someone with a brain/analytic skills.

It's pretty obvious what his goal is. Pressure italian football into reforms he's been asking for for years.... but you know i've given up hope most people have ability to actual read between the lines.
It's the vogue thing to declare Italian football is in "crisis", "decline", "not as good as before" and so on. Galliani makes a statement like "Serie A will become like the Dutch league" and everyone follows suit, while I'm nearly certain that he doesn't genuinely believe that. Throw in the English media - i.e. the "Serie A in decline, Prem the best league in the world etc etc" brigade, Graeme Souness et al, the likes of whom figured that it was merely a case of the English team "not showing up" when Fiorentina and Inter won at Anfield and Stamford Bridge not too long ago - and you have an explanation.

I do think that the FIGC needs massive change, they're a bunch of incompetent fucknuggets who keep holding back the league. Who needs a reserve league? Pfft. Systems that detect suspicious betting patterns? Useless. Limiting clubs from buying more than one non-EU player per season (before reversing it a year later)? Bingo, that makes perfect sense.

As long as there isn't a collective sale of broadcasting rights like in England, Serie A won't regress to the Eredivisie's level. Absolutely-fucking-not. Just to put it in perspective, our revenue from broadcasting rights is only second to the big two in Spain, but matchday revenue for instance, is about 1/4 of Man United's. Milan, Juve and Inter don't make nearly as much as Real, Barcelona, Man Utd and Bayern (the "big four" of Europe in terms of revenue generated per season) from ticket sales. Lack of stadium ownership doesn't allow attendances and matchday revenue to increase, and therein lies the problem.

Nobody will miss the opportunity to point and laugh at Juventus, but the truth is that they'll be laughing last. They're on course to becoming the first Italian club to free themselves of the reliance on broadcasting revenue and I expect them to join that elite four in the next few years. I mean, Inter won the treble last season but they only made €20m more than a Juve side without Champions League football (€10m less than us, and we finished with zero tituli).

That same Juve made roughly €210m that season (around €140m less than Man United, for example) and with the new stadium, the matchday revenue I mentioned will quadruple, if not increase further when they eventually get back into the Champions League. Zero requirements to pay rent to the city council and on top of that, they'll keep the money from the shops and restaurants outside the stadium, greatly increasing commercial revenue and laughing at Milan and Inter.
 

Casualista

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You guys are right. Serie A has been going strength to strength to strength past couple of years. :thumbsup::thumbsup: Galliani is just conspiring to fulfill his agendas of new stadiums for more dinero by talking about a fake crisis or overplaying one where none exists. :lol::lol::lol: He may have ulterior motives but saying that Serie A is not in a crisis and people are just saying it as a stereotype is lol.

#Procognitiveabilities.

2 years back Inter won UCL by beating Chelsea because they were the better team same goes for Fiore vs Liverpool. But also a year back the top 2 of italy were beaten by a 5th place tottenham. And juventus didnt even make it past the group stages of Europa. Napoli got an early KO from Villareal as well. Not to mention Samp. Rounded up by the fact that Germany has overtaken Italy all the while breaking the stereotype that Bayern is the only german club that can hold their own in UCL.

Oh Palermo got KO-ed from Europa qualifiers by FC Thun 2 days back.

Wut crisis? :o:o All i see is anti-italian conspiracy. :proud:
 
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Udinese are shit now! Zapata, Sanchez, Inler all left...
 

The Bear

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You guys are right. Serie A has been going strength to strength to strength past couple of years. :thumbsup::thumbsup: Galliani is just conspiring to fulfill his agendas of new stadiums for more dinero by talking about a fake crisis or overplaying one where none exists. :lol::lol::lol: He may have ulterior motives but saying that Serie A is not in a crisis and people are just saying it as a stereotype is lol.

#Procognitiveabilities.

2 years back Inter won UCL by beating Chelsea because they were the better team same goes for Fiore vs Liverpool. But also a year back the top 2 of italy were beaten by a 5th place tottenham. And juventus didnt even make it past the group stages of Europa. Napoli got an early KO from Villareal as well. Not to mention Samp. Rounded up by the fact that Germany has overtaken Italy all the while breaking the stereotype that Bayern is the only german club that can hold their own in UCL.

Oh Palermo got KO-ed from Europa qualifiers by FC Thun 2 days back.

Wut crisis? :o:o All i see is anti-italian conspiracy. :proud:
Reading clearly isn't your strongest point. So if a league isn't "going from strength to strength", it's on the decline? Flawed logic that's not even worth pointing out. Is it not in a better position than a year or two ago, given that Milan, Juve, Roma and Napoli are all stronger? Is the fact that there's more money in Serie A than any other European league bar the Prem not enough of an indication that it's quite a long way off dropping down to Holland's level?

The Inter and Fiorentina points were used to illustrate the ignorantly obtuse and moronic nature of Britain's esteemed pundits, commentators and journalists, so I'm not sure what relevance Tottenham's wins over Milan and Inter have. And it was not a "year back", I see maths isn't your strong point either. If you're going to use Italy's poor record in the Europa League to back up your point, surely the Premier League is in decline too?

The last time an English team won Europe's secondary competition was in 2001. The last time an English team won the Champions League was in 2009, since then there have been two Spanish wins and one Italian. Surely, given that only a few years ago they could boast three semifinalists in the competition, which has reduced to only one this season and zero last year, they aren't in a similar position of strength and by definition, similarly "on the decline"?
 

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Arsenal's defence is bad and they might lose Fabregas and Nasri soon. So there is hope.
 

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You're all quite the pessimists, although I don't hold out much hope for Udinese myself. The worst-possible draw would've been Bayern as they're a stronger outfit, but this is an Arsenal side almost in complete disarray. Guidolin won't go to London and park the bus, and Arsenal's defense will have their hands full with Di Natale.

Aside from van Persie, the absence of starters like Nasri and, perhaps, Fabregas will be a great disadvantage given that they'll be up against strong, quick midfielders like Isla, Asamoah and Armero. It's worth noting that the away leg is sandwiched between Liverpool at home and Man United away, so an Arsenal win isn't a formality at all.

Stranger things have happened, but you all seem keen on becoming little Galliani hybrids in your whinging about calcio, when in reality, his intentions aren't to lambaste Italian football as much as to put pressure on parliament for the stadium rule to go through.

Bayern has better attack than Arsenal, but worse defence. I would say Bayern has the worst defence of all the top teams in Europe....absolute shocking defence with no pace whatsoever.

We are far better team than Udinese. But we are low on confidence right now and there's alot of negative vibe at our home ground. You feel the tension at home games and this effect the players who feel more confident at playing away. We were the best away team in the PL last season and scored 9 goals more than any away team.

Our problem is we struggled to break down defensive teams at home. So i wouldnt be surprised at all if udinese gets a draw at our ground. But it seems Wenger bringing in gervinho and hoping for Miyachi to get his permit and putting him in the team that he's going for pace this season. So we will be very dangerous away from home. Arsenal few years ago when they were at their best was all about pace, we used to destroy teams on the counter.
 

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Stranger things have happened, but you all seem keen on becoming little Galliani hybrids in your whinging about calcio, when in reality, his intentions aren't to lambaste Italian football as much as to put pressure on parliament for the stadium rule to go through.

While this sounds very very logical, only problem i have with it is this acts as negative publicity for italian football if it keeps popping up in the news which is bad, atleast in the short run.
 

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Bayerns defense has been a problem for a while, but they're clearly trying to do something to address the problem. They've signed Boateng, Rafinha and the best of the lot, Neuer. Arsenal has had the same problem for years, conceding more than 40 goals for several seasons running and unlike Bayern, Wenger has just been ignoring the problem.

I mean, who was the last great defender Arsenal had? Gallas, Campbell? Well it's been a while since either of them were at the top. Instead it's Vermaelen, Squillaci, Kolchielny who ply their trade in a club that's suposed to be winning the EPL... Just not good enough if you ask me. To bad Wenger doesn't have the same gift at finding talented CB's as he does at finding talented everything else (Except goalkeepers).

Anyways, Arsenal are obvious big favorites, but I think it could be a couple of good games if Udinese can hit some of the form they had last year. Although, question is if the players they lost will have hurt them to much.
 

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With the money Udinese got from Zapata, Inler and Sanchez they're going to build a great team. They have probably the best scouts in Italy.
 

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Bayerns defense has been a problem for a while, but they're clearly trying to do something to address the problem. They've signed Boateng, Rafinha and the best of the lot, Neuer. Arsenal has had the same problem for years, conceding more than 40 goals for several seasons running and unlike Bayern, Wenger has just been ignoring the problem.

I mean, who was the last great defender Arsenal had? Gallas, Campbell? Well it's been a while since either of them were at the top. Instead it's Vermaelen, Squillaci, Kolchielny who ply their trade in a club that's suposed to be winning the EPL... Just not good enough if you ask me. To bad Wenger doesn't have the same gift at finding talented CB's as he does at finding talented everything else (Except goalkeepers).

Anyways, Arsenal are obvious big favorites, but I think it could be a couple of good games if Udinese can hit some of the form they had last year. Although, question is if the players they lost will have hurt them to much.

How much of a problem is it that udineses first competitive game of the season will be at Arsenal. Do you think Arsenal starting the season earlier will give them a bit more advantage in terms of match fitness?
 

Casualista

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Reading clearly isn't your strongest point. So if a league isn't "going from strength to strength", it's on the decline? Flawed logic that's not even worth pointing out. Is it not in a better position than a year or two ago, given that Milan, Juve, Roma and Napoli are all stronger? Is the fact that there's more money in Serie A than any other European league bar the Prem not enough of an indication that it's quite a long way off dropping down to Holland's level?

Milan, Roma and Napoli have become definitely better and they are the bright side of Serie A. But those teams do not make up the entire Serie A. I'll add one more team to your list- Lazio. They have become better as well. But for those 4 teams that have become better there is an entire heard of teams that have declined in the past 2 years alone. Teams like Fiorentina, Sampadoria, Genoa, Inter and even Juve have gone downhill (verdict is still out on Juve on how they will perform upcoming season but compared to how they started off on their return to Serie A they have been going down big as well despite signing some big name players year after year). Udinese has lost its 3 best players in 3 different positions and 2 to foreign clubs. So i dont see them being better than last season. And they will probably be KO-ed by Arsenal. So Italian representatives in UCL are already going down without any help from UEFA reducing the number of teams that can play in UCL. Palermo were KO-ed by Thun as well in Europa qualifiers. So Serie A numbers have started to go down there as well and the real competition isnt even under way.


The Inter and Fiorentina points were used to illustrate the ignorantly obtuse and moronic nature of Britain's esteemed pundits, commentators and journalists, so I'm not sure what relevance Tottenham's wins over Milan and Inter have. And it was not a "year back", I see maths isn't your strong point either. If you're going to use Italy's poor record in the Europa League to back up your point, surely the Premier League is in decline too?

Actually i think Permier league is on a decline too. Much LESS DRASTIC than Serie A but on the decline as well. Still good enough to be second best league in the world tho. The decline is mainly due to the Spanish power houses slowly and steadily taking their better stars from top teams over the years (Ronaldo, Henry, Alonso, Fabregas soon) and failure of Chelsea to replace their aging stars with quality so far. City seems to be changing the equation tho. But if you are talking about purely math. The English have been doing better than Serie A in Europa as well. Fulham reaching the finals, Liverpool reaching semis, City in quarters.
In fact it is one of the competitions they have been improving in if NOT winning.


The last time an English team won Europe's secondary competition was in 2001. The last time an English team won the Champions League was in 2009, since then there have been two Spanish wins and one Italian. Surely, given that only a few years ago they could boast three semifinalists in the competition, which has reduced to only one this season and zero last year, they aren't in a similar position of strength and by definition, similarly "on the decline"?

Read above.
 
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Sven

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With the money Udinese got from Zapata, Inler and Sanchez they're going to build a great team. They have probably the best scouts in Italy.

I was expecting Udinese to do better honestly. With 64 m in their hands and UCL football, they should do a quality jump in their transfers and be willing to pay bigger salaries. Re-invest part of it, bring some experienced players or something.

Yet so far they just signed the average joes they sign every year. I mean, Barreto for 3,5 m is their top investment...
 

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Nesta, Costacurta, Seedorf, Albertini, Inzaghi, SES, Montolivo etc.
I was expecting Udinese to do better honestly. With 64 m in their hands and UCL football, they should do a quality jump in their transfers and be willing to pay bigger salaries. Re-invest part of it, bring some experienced players or something.

Yet so far they just signed the average joes they sign every year. I mean, Barreto for 3,5 m is their top investment...

Wasn't Barreto always a Udinese player? He's a very good player though, remember he's scored a couple of really nice goal for Bari in his time there, and has a very good goalscoring record as well. A much better goalscorer than Sanchez, obviously not as tricky, but quite fast imo.
 

acmilan4ever

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Arsenal, Fabregas will miss the Udinese
Wenger announces: "Cesc is out of condition"

Udinese can breathe a little sigh of relief, knowing that Cesc Fabregas will not play the first leg between Friuli and the Londoners Arsenal. This was revealed by the coach Arsene Wenger: "Cesc is out of condition, do not even have a game in the legs, it will be very difficult against Udinese, that regardless of his eventual departure."

Regardless of his transfer status, he will be a major absentee. That's 3 now for the first leg [Nasri, RVP suspended and Cesc not fit] Udinese should grab this opportunity properly, get an away goal or two.
 

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