Italian Football Thread II

[Charbel]

Roma played against Sudtirol, team managed by Giovanni Stroppa(ex-Milan primavera coach), and won 3-0. Vucinic scored a brace and Borriello scored a goal. Schenetti and Santonocito (both Milansitas on loan at Sudtirol) played in the first half (they got subbed off...much like most of the players that played in the first half before the second half started).

Sudtirol also played a friendly 3 days ago which they won 5 - 0, again Santonocito and Schenetti played in the first half, neither was on the scoring sheet though.

 

[necromancer]

Lovely by Del Piero. Although he's kinda like Seedorf now. Exhibits such genius now and then, but Milan/Juventus shouldn't get taken in and guarantee starting spots to either.

 

[KujaIX]

Is it me or was he clearly offside?

 

[Sod-Lod]

Quotes of the weeks

Quotes of the weeks

"It's confirmation of what we already knew, nothing more than confirmation.”
Massimo Moratti thinks ‘getting away with it on a technicality of the statute of limitations’ qualifies as an innocent verdict. It doesn’t.

“I hoped that Inter would’ve foregone the statute of limitations in this case. There is no statute of limitations on ethics. We had to stick to the rules. If the rules do not satisfy some, then that is out of our hands.”
That’s FIGC President Giancarlo Abete giving what Moratti seems to believe is an extra medal for the 2006 Scudetto

“The past two seasons have been negative, as we started out well enough only to collapse after Christmas.”
Claudio Marchisio has identified Juve’s problem: an allergy to turkey and Brussels sprouts

“I’ll kill them if they’ve broken my Edinson.”
Napoli President Aurelio De Laurentiis goes all Wendi Deng on Uruguay

“Gennaro Gattuso said he’d cut my hair with a tackle!”
Stephan El Shaarawy had a buzz cut, now he will test the stud cut

"It is important to make clear that Franco will continue in his current role on a full-time basis until either October or November 2011, depending on England's progress in their qualifying group. He will not commence his work with Roma until after this time.”
The England FA happily ignore the fact Baldini already took part in meetings, confirmed he met with Andre Villas-Boas for the club and gives interviews on the Giallorossi project

“The indecent proposal would have to be of €100m, otherwise Marek Hamsik will be staying here.”
That’s not so much indecent as immoral, De Laurentiis

“I would give myself 1.5, perhaps a 2 out of 10 at best.”
Julio Cesar’s online dating profile did not start well

“I went to Turin. I was warmly welcomed by [former director general Jean-Claude] Blanc, but he and his collaborators didn’t think investing in Giuseppe Rossi was right. I couldn’t pay what Manchester United wanted for Rossi, but we and another Italian club could have signed him for €5m each.”
Parma President Tommaso Ghirardi confirms the nose for a bargain that brought Juventus to spend millions on Diego and Tiago Mendes

“We are counting on the younger players and if they make errors then we just have to show them patience.”
Has new President Thomas Di Benedetto ever met a Roma fan?

“They are treating him like an old shoe.”
Sebastien Frey got the boot, says agent Carlo Pallavicino

“Vidal is a useful player. He’s an incredible stealer of balls.”
We think Marcelo Salas meant that as a compliment

“I had thought Ibrahimovic was an arrogant b*****d, but he’s really nice, kind and funny.”
It’s an easy mistake to make, Kevin-Prince Boateng

“As for Pippo Inzaghi, seeing him train at age 39 makes you think everything is possible. I’d throw up if I ran as much as he does.”
Boateng notes Inzaghi has the stamina of a marathon Olympic gold medallist and the stomach of a concrete elephant

“I will avoid talking to Pioli about the tactical system. I did that with Rossi, seeing as he obstinately kept playing the same way.”
We give Maurizio Zamparini a week before he’s sending detailed notes in public

“The truth is that they are happy to stay together and they will, so long as nothing changes between now and the end of August.”
Samuel Eto’o is as secure as any married couple on separate holidays, says agent Claudio Vigorelli

“On paper we’re definitely not a seventh-place team.”
On the pitch, Giorgio Chiellini, Juve are

“In football, contracts were made to be broken."
Corinthians President Andres Sanchez spotted the ‘Worthless Scrap Of Paper’ clause in the fine print

“Juventus? They were the ones who sent me away. If I was to ever return then they would have to be the ones to convince me.”
Sebastian Giovinco’s anthem is ‘Cry me a river’

“As for Stevan Jovetic, I asked him not to get hurt...”
Sinisa Mihajlovic’s tactics are the 4-3-2-wrapped in cotton wool

“I feel like a prisoner at Bologna, as they won’t let me go.”
Gaston Ramirez declares: ‘I am not a shirt number! I am a free man!’

“Either we receive a quality player in exchange, or Rodrigo Palacio is staying with us.”
So why is Enrico Preziosi asking for Goran Pandev? Make your mind up!

“Football goes in waves of fashion, but I did well to resist.”
Alberto Malesani still wears bell-bottoms on the touchline

“I bet you a pizza and a beer that Wes is staying with Inter.”
Dejan Stankovic’s new betting scandal was underwhelming

“I am convinced Eduardo is a good goalkeeper, but I decided he’d be best somewhere else for a year to avoid being bombarded with criticism at the slightest mistake.”
Genoa President Preziosi thinks absence will make the heart grow fonder

“I’ve received an offer from Europe that will vastly improve my salary.”
At least Felipe Melo is honest about why he’s leaving Juventus

“Leonardo betrayed me.”
Milan fans called Leo Judas, now Marco Materazzi puts himself in the Last Supper as Jesus

“We have found our Mister X, but that’s not to say he will actually arrive.”
Adriano Galliani will try just being pen-pals first and see how it develops

 

[dhorasoo]

Menez to PSG for 8 million euri.

http://www.gazzetta.it/Calciomercato/24-07-2011/fiorentina-faro-aquilani-802162137826.shtml

They could've asked for more money right?

 

[Polotelli]

Menez to PSG for 8 million euri.

http://www.gazzetta.it/Calciomercato/24-07-2011/fiorentina-faro-aquilani-802162137826.shtml

They could've asked for more money right?

True, nice job from PSG

 

[Ash]

Is it me or was he clearly offside?

Clearly offside

 

[Australiano1980]

Menez is gone???
They are trying to sell Vucinic?

what roma is doing?

Is Totti getting any younger or smt?

 

[Polotelli]

Menez is gone???
They are trying to sell Vucinic?

what roma is doing?

Is Totti getting any younger or smt?

Vucinic will only leave for alot of money, and then they will find a worthy replacement

 

[Australiano1980]

Vucinic will only leave for alot of money, and then they will find a worthy replacement

the way are they doing the worthy replacement is someone like jhonatas dos santos.

 

[Senatore_M84]

Menez is gone???
They are trying to sell Vucinic?

what roma is doing?

Is Totti getting any younger or smt?

Funfact: totti made his professional debut 3 weeks after erik lamelas first bday.

Menez was always leaving though. Contract dispute. I'm still confused what they're doing. They need cms and defenders....

Edit: forgot they got hienze and jose angel for defense....eh. and apparently they are close to lucho gonzalez who would actually be an excellent signing

 

[Charbel]

The way Roma are building their squad, they aren't looking very promising. You don't bring players these young and expect them to take you a step up...you need fucken champions. They are as ambitious as Udinese...

 

[Senatore_M84]

The way Roma are building their squad, they aren't looking very promising. You don't bring players these young and expect them to take you a step up...you need fucken champions. They are as ambitious as Udinese...

I think Lamela and Bojan were good signings though. I just hope they don't expect to start both.

you play 1 of them next to vucinic and totti, it's all good. You start the duo with an aging Totti, you got problems.

Lucho would actually be a great addition to midfield if the fee isn't high (only issue is he'll turn 30 this year). But he's what there midfield needs. Hienze? Eh, cheap gamble i suppose. He's declining but not dead.

Sidenote: I am kind of hoping Bojan fails, because I'm REALLY sick of hearing my barca friend tell me how he's gonna light up serie a "dude.... he's a barca player, he's gonna kill serie A"

I like Bojan's game too, i think he's a bit more of a poacher than he admits to. The sooner he embraces that and tries to be next pippo and not the next messi, the better his career will go.

 

[yunolovemilan?]

tickets

anybody going to any upcoming AC matches?

 

[yunolovemilan?]

Lamela and Bojan are the best signings in a loooooooong while

 

[Charbel]

I think Lamela and Bojan were good signings though. I just hope they don't expect to start both.

you play 1 of them next to vucinic and totti, it's all good. You start the duo with an aging Totti, you got problems.

Lucho would actually be a great addition to midfield if the fee isn't high (only issue is he'll turn 30 this year). But he's what there midfield needs. Hienze? Eh, cheap gamble i suppose. He's declining but not dead.

Sidenote: I am kind of hoping Bojan fails, because I'm REALLY sick of hearing my barca friend tell me how he's gonna light up serie a "dude.... he's a barca player, he's gonna kill serie A"

I like Bojan's game too, i think he's a bit more of a poacher than he admits to. The sooner he embraces that and tries to be next pippo and not the next messi, the better his career will go.

I agree that they are very good signings, but for me it seems (with the rumors that they might sell Vucinic) that they will count on them to hold the team...which is ridiculous for a team that is supposed to be fighting for CL spot. + They'll take a shit load of time to be able to play together IF bojan and lamela are put in the same formation. It doesn't seem very promising to me, Napoli and even Juve are much more frightening than Roma.

 

[milanista1899]

Marchisio+cash for Mirko would be a good deal for roma..They need a Mf..And they can use the cash for someone else..I dont think Vucinic wants to stay in rome..

 

[necromancer]

Roma's project is more of a gamble than Juve's. The entire style is changing, so many new players and a new management. Hence, it's virtually impossible to predict anything now about them - They could be awesome, mediocre or sad.

Napoli and Juve will undoubtedly challenge for top 4. So will Lazio, who have kept almost all of their team, which did excellent last year, let's not forget.

 

[Fiero]

Juve will undoubtedly challenge for top 4.

Why?

 

[necromancer]

James Horncastle reporting that Roma are training in rather interesting ways, the forgotten Brazilian, Cicinho, coming back into frame, Borriello playing wide, Taddei playing fullback etc. They are gonna be very hard to predict.

Why?

Undoubtedly to me, naturally. Simply in terms of the quality of players, they have upgraded, particularly if they get Rossi as well. And note that I said 'challenge for top 4', not 'will finish in the top 4'. They could lose out if the likes of Lazio and Udinese have consistent seasons.

 

[Jasper]

Taddei at fullback

BTW the Baldini interview translated - http://dielleroma.livejournal.com/1657.html

 

[Fiero]

Undoubtedly to me, naturally. Simply in terms of the quality of players, they have upgraded, particularly if they get Rossi as well. And note that I said 'challenge for top 4', not 'will finish in the top 4'. They could lose out if the likes of Lazio and Udinese have consistent seasons.

Juventus don't have quality. They're full of mediocre players who were only purchased due to their nationality and low or nonexistent fee. The problem with Juve's transfer strategy is incredibly obvious, they try to rejuvenate but with quick fixes. Two things that don't go together. Players like Zeigler, Pazienza, and heck even Pirlo would be decent additions to a complete team, but they're not players to build the core of a team around.

Plus it's not possible to buy ~ 10 new players every season, throw in a new coach and expect to win instantly. They need time to gel and whilst they start promisingly due to incredible determination and high expectations from fans, the board, and the media, they struggle to maintain their form when injuries, pressure, and fatigue take their toll. It's the same story every year, like Inter of the past, the glorified champions of July and August.

The only difference I see this year between Ferrara's/Zacheroni's/Delneri's Juve and Conte's is that Conte's grit and determination could be transferred to the players and so it would be hard to see them collapse like the past two seasons. But Napoli, Inter, and Lazio are way ahead of them in terms of quality and continuity.

Plus I don't like how every new coach cleans up the team from the players of the past regime. Not too long ago players like Giovinco, Diego, and Melo were considered pillars of the 'new Juve', only to be dumped by the next flavor of the month coach. The excess of changes can't be healthy and frankly, it's just a waste of money. Impatience and lack of continuity are a curse, as the Moratti of the 90s would gladly tell you.

 

[Eccolo]

Well I do believe Juve has a midfield and attack , if they were to add Rossi,

A midfield consisting of Vidal Pirlo Marchissio and an attack with Krasic -Rossi -Matri/Quag is better then both Lazio, Napoli and Udinese respectiv midfield and attack. I would say they are short of a really good CB and LB.

Having a core around Rossi-Vidal-Chielleni and Buffon is by no meas a bad one

 

[necromancer]

Juventus don't have quality. They're full of mediocre players who were only purchased due to their nationality and low or nonexistent fee. The problem with Juve's transfer strategy is incredibly obvious, they try to rejuvenate but with quick fixes. Two things that don't go together. Players like Zeigler, Pazienza, and heck even Pirlo would be decent additions to a complete team, but they're not players to build the core of a team around.

Plus it's not possible to buy ~ 10 new players every season, throw in a new coach and expect to win instantly. They need time to gel and whilst they start promisingly due to incredible determination and high expectations from fans, the board, and the media, they struggle to maintain their form when injuries, pressure, and fatigue take their toll. It's the same story every year, like Inter of the past, the glorified champions of July and August.

The only difference I see this year between Ferrara's/Zacheroni's/Delneri's Juve and Conte's is that Conte's grit and determination could be transferred to the players and so it would be hard to see them collapse like the past two seasons. But Napoli, Inter, and Lazio are way ahead of them in terms of quality and continuity.

Plus I don't like how every new coach cleans up the team from the players of the past regime. Not too long ago players like Giovinco, Diego, and Melo were considered pillars of the 'new Juve', only to be dumped by the next flavor of the month coach. The excess of changes can't be healthy and frankly, it's just a waste of money. Impatience and lack of continuity are a curse, as the Moratti of the 90s would gladly tell you.

Agreed on the repeated churn etc, but it's easy to over-state their issues. For instance, if Allegri had failed last year, we would have been in their exact position. For the Ferrara/Zac season, we had Leonardo's failed season. For Del Neri's, we would have had Allegri's. This does not mean they will succeed this season, but they are doing the best they can every season - investing completely in a new coach and building the team as he wants. That's exactly what should be done if your choice failed the previous season.

As for quality, I disagree. Their starting midfield and starting attack are both good Serie A quality. As Eccolo says below. Among the others whom you mentioned, Ziegler and Lichtsteiner are both good Serie A quality as well. I've found Ziegler rather above average since he was playing in England, an under-rated player.

They most certainly have the quality to fight for the top 4, as far as I'm concerned.

Well I do believe Juve has a midfield and attack , if they were to add Rossi,

A midfield consisting of Vidal Pirlo Marchissio and an attack with Krasic -Rossi -Matri/Quag is better then both Lazio, Napoli and Udinese respectiv midfield and attack. I would say they are short of a really good CB and LB.

Having a core around Rossi-Vidal-Chielleni and Buffon is by no meas a bad one

Exactly.

 

[Fiero]

Agreed on the repeated churn etc, but it's easy to over-state their issues. For instance, if Allegri had failed last year, we would have been in their exact position. For the Ferrara/Zac season, we had Leonardo's failed season. For Del Neri's, we would have had Allegri's. This does not mean they will succeed this season, but they are doing the best they can every season - investing completely in a new coach and building the team as he wants. That's exactly what should be done if your choice failed the previous season.

As for quality, I disagree. Their starting midfield and starting attack are both good Serie A quality. As Eccolo says below. Among the others whom you mentioned, Ziegler and Lichtsteiner are both good Serie A quality as well. I've found Ziegler rather above average since he was playing in England, an under-rated player.

They most certainly have the quality to fight for the top 4, as far as I'm concerned.

But it's illogical to compare Milan with Juventus due to the difference in how both clubs are run. As you know in Via Turati the transfer decisions are up to Galliani and his gang, the coach of course underlines his preferences, but in the end the decision isn't up to him. I'm all for changing incompetent coaches, but it's not wise to give them too much power. For example, I know you don't rate Melo, and he is by no means world class, but he is a very decent squad player. Worthy of a top club. Now Conte comes in and suddenly disposes of him, despite the fact that they spent €25 million on him not too long ago.

But I realize that's not the point of the discussion. Concerning Juve's quality, I say they could of course break into the top four, but they so easily could miss out. It's either miss or hit for them. Napoli, Inter, and Lazio would be safer bets for example. But as proven, their squad is full of mediocre overhyped players in the names of Krasic, Matri, Motta, and you know the rest. Ziegler and Leich are good, but they're not world class. They're not upgrades, at least not to an aspiring top team. Stop gap quick fixes at best. Pirlo is past it and you know it. To conclude, they're a decent squad. Nothing more, nothing less.

I'd give the edge to Napoli and Lazio considering currently they have more continuity, more solid squad, more experienced coaches, and a realistic view of events.

But you never know in football. I just think people overrate them a bit too much. Similar to every July since Calciopoli.

 

[necromancer]

But it's illogical to compare Milan with Juventus due to the difference in how both clubs are run. As you know in Via Turati the transfer decisions are up to Galliani and his gang, the coach of course underlines his preferences, but in the end the decision isn't up to him. I'm all for changing incompetent coaches, but it's not wise to give them too much power. For example, I know you don't rate Melo, and he is by no means world class, but he is a very decent squad player. Worthy of a top club. Now Conte comes in and suddenly disposes of him, despite the fact that they spent €25 million on him not too long ago.

But I realize that's not the point of the discussion. Concerning Juve's quality, I say they could of course break into the top four, but they so easily could miss out. It's either miss or hit for them. Napoli, Inter, and Lazio would be safer bets for example. But as proven, their squad is full of mediocre overhyped players in the names of Krasic, Matri, Motta, and you know the rest. Ziegler and Leich are good, but they're not world class. They're not upgrades, at least not to an aspiring top team. Stop gap quick fixes at best. Pirlo is past it and you know it. To conclude, they're a decent squad. Nothing more, nothing less.

I'd give the edge to Napoli and Lazio considering currently they have more continuity, more solid squad, more experienced coaches, and a realistic view of events.

But you never know in football. I just think people overrate them a bit too much. Similar to every July since Calciopoli.

Agreed on most things actually - it's reasonable to have Napoli and Lazio as favourites ahead of Juve for 3rd and 4th spot. At the same time, it won't be surprising if Juve finishes 3rd or 4th either. That's all that I'm saying. They have a visible increase in quality this season, significant increase if they get Rossi, and Conte seems to be a no-nonsense coach with a clear tactical plan.

As for Melo, he was told clearly that he won't be starting. And he left when he got a higher salary offer. I don't think they mismanaged there.

 

[Casualista]

Agreed on most things actually - it's reasonable to have Napoli and Lazio as favourites ahead of Juve for 3rd and 4th spot. At the same time, it won't be surprising if Juve finishes 3rd or 4th either. That's all that I'm saying. They have a visible increase in quality this season, significant increase if they get Rossi, and Conte seems to be a no-nonsense coach with a clear tactical plan.

As for Melo, he was told clearly that he won't be starting. And he left when he got a higher salary offer. I don't think they mismanaged there.

Elaborate. And didnt the previous managers have the same?

 

[necromancer]

Elaborate. And didnt the previous managers have the same?

I think I've posted that enough in the last few pages. He wants them to play DM-less, possession-based, in a 4-3-3/4-4-2 system. Previous managers all had their own identities, but Conte 'seems' more capable. Ferrara was a glorified youth coach (Luis Enrique also?), Del Neri has midtable written all over him, Conte gives off Allegri-like confidence. I think.

Before my statement is interpreted wrong, Allegri is of course in a different league right now.

 

[ladro]

Jube has way to many IFs remaining to believe they cant compete for the title or anything.

The 1st is is conte a good and competent coach? Considering he wants to play pirlo back alone in a 2 man midfield with the 1 DM my guess would be no.

Speaking of pirlo they threw away melo. The only physical quality MF is left is now vidal. What if he gets injured or flops? WIll pazienza cover pirlos slow, weak ass? pirlo-pazienza, thats relegation material.

Also is marotta the same incompetent fool he was last year or did he learn from his mistakes? He lost aguero, rossi seems to be distancing himself away to so looks like they will have to settle for the 3rd choice aka vucinic.

Roma are throwing away along with menez vucinic. Like jube throwing away melo they dont even seem aware a team with depth is required to win anything.

IMO milan and inter will compete for the title with napoli behind.

 

[Jasper]

Menez to PSG for 8 million euri.

http://www.gazzetta.it/Calciomercato/24-07-2011/fiorentina-faro-aquilani-802162137826.shtml

They could've asked for more money right?

Read he was on his last year ad not interested in renewal. Plus the fact that he didn't play much under Montella and is still a talent rather than product I'd say it's pretty accurate even considering PSG newly found wealth.