The Rumour Commode XLI: Ragnarok

[Ash-ish]

You don’t rate SMS? He’d be good for Pioli’s CAM.

Bennacer plays there after he failed as dm.

 

[namorov]

I can understand some of your arguments but I think your post also contains a bit of whataboutism. Yes, there are problems with the system, yes, the usual sheikh clubs like PSG or City get away with things they shouldn't because they are protected by their own presidents who sit on committees that are actually tasked with prosecuting and punishing their own of fences - which will never happen of course.

But - this has nothing to do with Juve's or other clubs' own infringements and should not lead to simply doing nothing at all. It's like me being caught speeding by the police and trying to talk my way out of it by arguing that the police should let me get away with it as long as they don't catch ALL the speeders at once.

The sporting penalties, on the other hand, are more than fair because Juve's financial manoeuvres have given them financial advantages on the transfer market and thus direct sporting advantages in league play.

Re whataboutism:
Let me clarify my initial post. My comment about everyone's doing it is not ment to be an argument for them not getting punished. I'm saying that because everyone was doing it, they did not in fact get any significant advantage. Which was the claim a lot of posters were making.
And the financial advantage from this manouvering is hugely exaggerated anyway. It's not like it allowed them to spend more overall. It just allowed a little more wiggle room regarding WHEN they were allowed to spend their money in the eyes of FFP.

Juve are simply the ones that got caught with their hand in the cookie jar. And im pretty happy about it, dont get me wrong.
My point is that i do not get the feeling of "justice was served" as much as "lucky for us that this happened to them" as we are lokking to be the biggest beneficiaries of this.

And to extend your analogy: To me this would be like you were pulled over by a firetruck and handed a speeding ticket because your medical insurrance doesn't cover it
I don't think it should be FIGC dealing with this issue. Inflating transfer fees is irrelevant to FIGC, it only impacts FFP, which are UEFA rules. If UEFA bans them or fines them, I have no issue with that.

 

[Ash-ish]

One of my ex-wifes entrance song for our wedding was X Gonna haha... She was fun at least, gold digging bitch... Anyways lol x

I give "x" away way too easily haha

 

[Ash-ish]

View attachment 19424

Either Belgian League is truly horrific or Pioli really ruined this kid

Wtf is that second photo. Mfers are crazy.

 

[Deleted member 24225]

who wants to go with me to a CL knockout or QF match next year

Count me in

 

[Master Smurf]

This one is different. Giving julian alvarez vibes. Dont know how hard he works off the ball though

If he comes would love it to be true

 

[brk]

thats probably gross ... net would be around what Leao will be making

Yeah kind of. Leao would be on around 13m euros gross in England.

 

[Master Smurf]

Refresh my memory.

Wanted the 80m striker that went to Liverpool and flopped (15 goals though)
I really wanted us to go for the Alpha striker last summer (basically said Napoli has Osihmen, Juve bought Vlahovic and we should get Darwin).

Its looking though that we are going further down the analytics hole so we will see.

 

[Omer]

Re whataboutism:
Let me clarify my initial post. My comment about everyone's doing it is not ment to be an argument for them not getting punished. I'm saying that because everyone was doing it, they did not in fact get any significant advantage. Which was the claim a lot of posters were making.
And the financial advantage from this manouvering is hugely exaggerated anyway. It's not like it allowed them to spend more overall. It just allowed a little more wiggle room regarding WHEN they were allowed to spend their money in the eyes of FFP.

Juve are simply the ones that got caught with their hand in the cookie jar. And im pretty happy about it, dont get me wrong.
My point is that i do not get the feeling of "justice was served" as much as "lucky for us that this happened to them" as we are lokking to be the biggest beneficiaries of this.

And to extend your analogy: To me this would be like you were pulled over by a firetruck and handed a speeding ticket because your medical insurrance doesn't cover it
I don't think it should be FIGC dealing with this issue. Inflating transfer fees is irrelevant to FIGC, it only impacts FFP, which are UEFA rules. If UEFA bans them or fines them, I have no issue with that.

Apparently there was a ruling before that there couldn't be any objective way to value a player. So inflating the value of players is fine. Then Juve added extra inflated numbers to their books beyond the already inflated values! For example they might do a player swap of a 15 mil player with another club and both clubs agree to value him at 25 mil. That's ok and within the rules, even if not fully accurate. Then Juve would go and put in their accounts that the players they received was worth 35 mil and the players they gave was worth 25 mil!! That becomes criminal accounting and goes beyond simple player inflation and fake sponsorships.

Then they also announced a "salary cut" during covid, and secretly paid the cut amount on the side, and so avoided paying tax on it.

I'm all for using accounting tricks to help the club. Many clubs do it. Even Milan used it for the Rebic - Andre Silva deal. Juve went beyond using accounting tricks that rely on just overvaluing player, who has non-objective value, and into complete criminal territory! These are the things that in many countries would be punished with jail time for the people involved.

 

[Balo45]

I think it’s Pioli. These numbers can’t be right. Hes not that bad. Pioli never invested anytime in this kid. He probably didn’t want him in the first place. Gave him some playing time because of the club

It’s not just throwing him in the field. Pioli and the leaders of the squad should have helped him … we remember how Pato was received when he joined. He immediately delivered. CDK feels alone probably

This is total BS bro. CDK played as a starter in the first portion of the season before the World Cup, he was instantly given trust here. And while he didn’t explode you could see some flashes there.

He lost his confidence as the season went on and the goal didnt come. In the fall he was all over the field and involved in build up, now he just stands in the box and tries to get on the end of something.

Sometimes players don’t take off, it doesn’t have to be anyone’s fault always. CDK may or may not ever find that confidence at Milan but the weight of expectations got to him more than Pioli or anyone else did.

 

[Master Smurf]

View attachment 19425

Isnt this you anytime a person mentions Carlo?

 

[Ryo]

Re whataboutism:
Let me clarify my initial post. My comment about everyone's doing it is not ment to be an argument for them not getting punished. I'm saying that because everyone was doing it, they did not in fact get any significant advantage. Which was the claim a lot of posters were making.
And the financial advantage from this manouvering is hugely exaggerated anyway. It's not like it allowed them to spend more overall. It just allowed a little more wiggle room regarding WHEN they were allowed to spend their money in the eyes of FFP.

Juve are simply the ones that got caught with their hand in the cookie jar. And im pretty happy about it, dont get me wrong.
My point is that i do not get the feeling of "justice was served" as much as "lucky for us that this happened to them" as we are lokking to be the biggest beneficiaries of this.

And to extend your analogy: To me this would be like you were pulled over by a firetruck and handed a speeding ticket because your medical insurrance doesn't cover it
I don't think it should be FIGC dealing with this issue. Inflating transfer fees is irrelevant to FIGC, it only impacts FFP, which are UEFA rules. If UEFA bans them or fines them, I have no issue with that.

Counter:
Milan weren't doing it, so it wasn't EVERYBODY who was doing shady shit. We ended up getting shafted financially by Ladri because of their "maneuvering" on Bonucci and Caldara. Our top 4 is deserved for that alone.

Your argument falls apart.

 

[Longbowman]

Wanted the 80m striker that went to Liverpool and flopped (15 goals though)
I really wanted us to go for the Alpha striker last summer (basically said Napoli has Osihmen, Juve bought Vlahovic and we should get Darwin).

Its looking though that we are going further down the analytics hole so we will see.

I also wanted Darwin but knew we were never gonna pay anything near Benfica prices.
I still think he would do great in our team. But too costly though.

 

[Kmoney]

My blood pressure… my heart can’t take such rumours. First Greenwood rumours and now this?

His ex girlfriend essentially exposed him as a r@pist and was apparently let off on a technicality by the police, and has 2 other cases of r@pe pending.

Stay the fuck away from such players. Look somewhere else.

I’m confident these are just dumb rumours but the idea of having this kind of a player in my club is revolting. No point getting bad rep/PR and getting such players.

And I’m aware that Partey could be exactly what our clubs needs in terms of profile, but still, NO from me…

Dude is 29, we’re willing to get to him And RLC but someone SMS is too old

 

[Kmoney]

For those of you who are completely against retaining Brahim, would you have the same stance if Pioli was banned from playing him anywhere else but RW?

That’s like saying you’re gonna buy cocaine, leave it in your desk, and never use ut

Ain’t happening

 

[namorov]

Counter:
Milan weren't doing it, so it wasn't EVERYBODY who was doing shady shit. We ended up getting shafted financially by Ladri because of their "maneuvering" on Bonucci and Caldara. Our top 4 is deserved for that alone.

Your argument falls apart.
View attachment 19427

You might wanna pick that up. The Bonucci Caldara deal is exactly when we were doing it.

 

[Ryo]

Dude is 29, we’re willing to get to him And RLC but someone SMS is too old

Any EPL player rumors, unless confirmed by Italian media, is just English journalists writing to sell papers. That or an Arsenal-supporting journalist hoping to get rid of a bad player in the press.

You might wanna pick that up. The Bonucci Caldara deal is exactly when we were doing it.

Nope, and nope.
We got shafted financially. Paid over the odds for two useless pieces. It did absolutely nothing for our finances or our sporting ambitions. How did that benefit us at all?

 

[Samaldinho]

That’s like saying you’re gonna buy cocaine, leave it in your desk, and never use ut

Ain’t happening

That is a very specific analogy.

 

[Hitchens]

Unpopular opinion. I think this Juve punishment is bs. Of course I'm happy about it, but if it was Milan I'd be fuming.

The only reason they got into this creative plusvalenza accounting is to circumvent FFP regulations. And it's not even to get an edge over domestic rivals, but to keep up with european super-spenders, who can spend freely and all they get is slap on the wrist from UEFA. Meanwhile Italian clubs are held accountable for every penny.

The other thing is: every club is doing it. So the argument that they gained an advantage from this is ridiculous. Yes they probably did it more than any other club, but the only reason they are getting punished is because they were dumb enough to get caught on a wiretap. AGAIN. (They should put The Wire on their mandatory corporate training list.)

And the last thing: this is not even a sporting issue. It's a financial/accounting issue. They should get investigated by some financial body for misleading the shareholders or whatever. I would also understand UEFA punishing them for jerking them around on FFP. But what has FIGC to do with this? I have no clue. They have no rules for clubs spending money, so why are they interested in how is Juve accounting their transfers. You think you would ever see PSG punished by Ligue 1 like this for their shady sponsorship deals?

Again, I'm very happy they got point deduction. I just don't see it as any kind of justice or karma. Just a random gift from heaven for us.

John Mearsheimer is that you?

 

[CanUNoTouch]

Partey a rapist so no.

 

[namorov]

For example they might do a player swap of a 15 mil player with another club and both clubs agree to value him at 25 mil. That's ok and within the rules, even if not fully accurate. Then Juve would go and put in their accounts that the players they received was worth 35 mil and the players they gave was worth 25 mil!! That becomes criminal accounting and goes beyond simple player inflation and fake sponsorships.

I don't know anything about this. The whole basis of the conviction here is having wiretaps when they admit to having overalued players they swapped. If they also inflated values above what they actually recieved then there would be no need for wiretaps, then it would be plain as day. Do you have any links for that? If thats correct, then my whole perspective is uninformed.

Then they also announced a "salary cut" during covid, and secretly paid the cut amount on the side, and so avoided paying tax on it.

Yeah, but that's another case entirely that is yet to begin. I am talking only about the current one.

 

[Kmoney]

That is a very specific analogy.

 

[namorov]

Any EPL player rumors, unless confirmed by Italian media, is just English journalists writing to sell papers. That or an Arsenal-supporting journalist hoping to get rid of a bad player in the press.

Nope, and nope.
We got shafted financially. Paid over the odds for two useless pieces. It did absolutely nothing for our finances or our sporting ambitions. How did that benefit us at all?

Yeah they made a good deal and we made a bad deal. That has nothing to do with fraud or this case.
Valuing both those player way above the market value is the problem. And for taht you need both parties.

 

[Balo45]

That’s like saying you’re gonna buy cocaine, leave it in your desk, and never use ut

Ain’t happening

I’ve forgotten and found shit at a later time in my pockets…maybe in my bed or something…

But in a desk???

 

[Longbowman]

You might wanna pick that up. The Bonucci Caldara deal is exactly when we were doing it.

Caldara was signed on a discount by Juve at around 15-25 million in 2017 because they agreed to leave him at Atalanta on loan. He then had a stellar 1.5 season at Atalanta. So Juve valuation of Caldara at 35 million was fair then. Bonucci was bought at 42 million by us, which was a discount then (Chelsea were willing to sign him for close to 70 the year ago). He was also valued at 35 in 2018, which I think was roughly his amortized cost on our book.
I don't see any wrongdoing in that swap.
People should remember that Caldara was a big prospect back then - 35 million was fair price, given he was moving to a rival as well.

Only smart accounting we did was Rebic deal to avoid paying Fiorentina any money.

 

[Hitchens]

Don't know if posted. Would be very happy to see him go.

 

[namorov]

Caldara was signed on a discount by Juve at around 15-25 million in 2017 because they agreed to leave him at Atalanta on loan. He then had a stellar 1.5 season at Atalanta. So Juve valuation of Caldara at 35 million was fair then. Bonucci was bought at 42 million by us, which was a discount then (Chelsea were willing to sign him for close to 70 the year ago). He was also valued at 35 in 2018, which I think was roughly his amortized cost on our book.
I don't see any wrongdoing in that swap.
People should remember that Caldara was a big prospect back then - 35 million was fair price, given he was moving to a rival as well.

Only smart accounting we did was Rebic deal to avoid paying Fiorentina any money.

Well here we are at the heart of the problem. Value is subjective That is why they needed wiretaps to nail Juve.

Bonucci was desperate to go back, so we had to sell to Juve, which drives his price way down. And somehow we managed to recoup almos all we paid for him after a horrible season.
And Caldara had a good 1.5 seasons. At Atalanta, which is a red flag on it's own. And he was already 24. At this age you'r not a prospect and you should already have 3-5 good seasons. He was hyped up by Juve, taht's all.

 

[Pingu]

Don't know if posted. Would be very happy to see him go.

Please midtable EPL side splash for Origi and save us. What a disappointment.

stares at @Wild

 

[Hugh Janus]

All make sense but not Diaz.
Kamada for free & we have Adlu & CDK.
If the idea for him to be our RW then its absurd because 15+mil should be better used on one of Moncada.
If Thuram can RW then Arna for free.
We should not buy Diaz.

Not only we are going to buy him, he is going to start for us next season too if we keep the donkey on the bench.

 

[Kmoney]

I’ve forgotten and found shit at a later time in my pockets…maybe in my bed or something…

But in a desk???