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The Rumour Commode XXXI: The Panther Era

Thread starter Hitchens
Start date Dec 14, 2020

Status: Not open for further replies.

brk

Milan Legend

Dec 25, 2020

#2,551

Birsaforever said:
I agree but you missed a few parts.

Salah and Allison alone were not enough for Roma to win CL, no matter how good.

If they had such financial power, they would have kept their best player but if they wanted to fight for CL they would also had to sign other top players.

You can't sign 11 top players with just scouting.

Also, if you want to retain top players you have to sign top players. Top players wants to win trophies.

A top player doesn't walk around with the sticker price of his last transfer slapped on his head. Top players are the ones that play the best, it has nothing to do anything else.

Messi, Donnarumma, Koulibaly, and a hundred other top players don't fit your definition of "Top Players". You're right that most great players get sold to the few teams that can afford them. It doesn't mean we have to be one of the teams that sell our top players to them.

Birsaforever

I hate Pink Floyd

Dec 25, 2020

#2,552

VultureSheva said:
Even ?proved players? need to have the characteeistics to play in your game, your formation etc. so you still have to ?scout? them.

Ok, but when confronting strategies like those discussed in the last pages (signing talents vs signing proven players) with scouting i meant "discovering players" not just making an assessment of how that player fits the technical project.

We scouted Kjaer but we didn't discover him. My point from the beginning of this discussion is that if you build a team with young talents, some of them will turn out to be very good, other must be upgraded in order to compete for CL.

And when it's time to upgrade them, it's not easy to do it with an unproven talent.

Ronin

Milansochist

Dec 25, 2020

#2,553

General said:
We on top of the table, boys

Ok... continue playing club management

What do you suggest to discuss? We have more than a week until next game.

brk

Milan Legend

Dec 25, 2020

#2,554

VultureSheva said:
https://streamable.com/iqemwh

This, to me, is the game were we finally left the banter era and the new mighty Milan was born.

Edit: My god Gigio is phenomenal...

Last edited: Dec 25, 2020

Birsaforever

I hate Pink Floyd

Dec 25, 2020

#2,555

brk said:
Messi, Donnarumma, Koulibaly, and a hundred other top players don't fit your definition of "Top Players".

uh?

brk said:
A top player doesn't walk around with the sticker price of his last transfer slapped on his head. Top players are the ones that play the best, it has nothing to do anything else.

I never said that all top players has to be expensive. But at some point happens that a team fighting for CL needs a player with certain features and the only one available on the market has a 100m price tag.

Birsaforever

I hate Pink Floyd

Dec 25, 2020

#2,556

Ronin said:
What do you suggest to discuss? We have more than a week until next game.

I like discussing everything , it's a way to confront with other's ideas, which is important to keep your brain healthy.

brk

Milan Legend

Dec 25, 2020

#2,557

Birsaforever said:
uh?

You constantly claim that a club can only get top players if they buy them for a high transfer fee, and players bought for less than that are not top players and you can't win without a team that has 'top players'. Those are players that were bought for nothing or very small fees. Are they not top players?

Birsaforever said:
I never said that all top players has to be expensive. But at some point happens that a team fighting for CL needs a player with certain features and the only one available on the market has a 100m price tag.

Ok, fair enough, but I still have an issue with this. For every 100m+ Coutinho there's a ton of players that can do exactly the same role for much, much less. Barcelona fucked up by buying Coutinho and seem like they spent money just for the sake of spending. I don't see how this was a good thing for Barcelona. Wouldn't it have been better for them to have used that money more effectively?

Last edited: Dec 25, 2020

Birsaforever

I hate Pink Floyd

Dec 25, 2020

#2,558

With the meaning i gave to the word "scouting", we didn't scout Rui Costa, Nesta, Pirlo, Seedorf, Inzaghi and others.

VultureSheva

Legendary Scout

Dec 25, 2020

#2,559

Last edited: Dec 25, 2020

brk

Milan Legend

Dec 25, 2020

#2,560

Birsaforever said:
With the meaning i gave to the word "scouting", we didn't scout Rui Costa, Nesta, Pirlo, Seedorf, Inzaghi and others.

Our team was very weirdly built and it took some creative tactics by Ancelotti to make it work, depending a lot on Gattuso and Seedorf for balance. He made it work in spite of an ad-hoc squad building which gave him 4 really good attacking midfielders (Pirlo, Rui Costa, Rivaldo and Seedorf). Galliani was just collecting players based on name alone and we got lucky sometimes and not so lucky in others, but that's the point; good scouting reduces this luck factor so that most of the time you know what you're getting and they're going to fit into our team and playstyle.

Galliani ran the team into the ground because he kept insisting on this name only strategy and depending on his gut and the advice of agents. Thanks, but I don't want to do that anymore.

VultureSheva

Legendary Scout

Dec 25, 2020

#2,561

Galliani was bringing a Ronaldino or a Ronaldo. But today a Mbappe costs €150M my boy, can you invest that?

Rather let Moncada find new Mbappe.

In the past scouting was also different from today.

Tantalis

Heyoka

Dec 25, 2020

#2,562

Tobinho said:
Thanks for this. Did you have the Pfizer or Moderna one?

Pfizer was the one they have me. I go in a few weeks for my booster.

Pingu

American Calcio Milan

Stream Guru

Dec 25, 2020

#2,563

brk said:
This, to me, is the game were we finally left the banter era and the new mighty Milan was born.

Edit: My god Gigio is phenomenal...

The 5-0 Atalanta game was the turnaround though as Pioli said. Entering 2020 we were a different beast. Gigio is a monster, Theo volley was insane.. Rebic getting his brace after looking lost in his few minutes prior in the season.

Birsaforever said:
With the meaning i gave to the word "scouting", we didn't scout Rui Costa, Nesta, Pirlo, Seedorf, Inzaghi and others.

They were still scouted to ensure they fit our team dynamic

Why didn't we buy prime R7 or something if we can just buy those world class names without having to scout, knowing he was one of the greats?

General

Official RnB Mercato Stress Counselor

Dec 25, 2020

#2,564

Ronin said:
What do you suggest to discuss? We have more than a week until next game.

Do we have actual rumors beyond the ones already mentioned?

To discuss

In

The...

Rumor commode?

Neruda

Milan Legend

Dec 25, 2020

#2,565

Tantalis said:
For those who get vaccine. My symptoms were the day of: fuzziness of vision for 30 mins and fatigue the rest of day. Following day I had low grade 99.0F fever and headache.

It's not so bad. Hopefully no one here is antivaxer.

Good for you. Now dont encourage people to inject themselves with god knows what

Rhat

Milan Veteran

Dec 25, 2020

#2,566

We are owned by a Vulture funds and are making structural losts.

You have to be delusional to think they gonna spend big on recognized names and increase the losts. We will keep the current strategy for the next couple of years until they come back to break even business or benefits in order to find a buyer.

M

MILAN 4EVER

Starting Eleven

Dec 25, 2020

#2,567

brk said:
This, to me, is the game were we finally left the banter era and the new mighty Milan was born.

Edit: My god Gigio is phenomenal...

God what did you do?? I really miss our fans! Football isn?t complete without the fans

Birsaforever

I hate Pink Floyd

Dec 25, 2020

#2,568

brk said:
You constantly claim that a club can only get top players if they buy them for a high transfer fee, and players bought for less than that are not top players and you can't win without a team that has 'top players'. Those are players that were bought for nothing or very small fees. Are they not top players?

Never said anything similar to that. What i said several times is that you can't build a top european formation only with scouting unproven players.

You might find young talents or underrated players that turns out to be top players but you must be extremely lucky to find 11. At some point you have to go for proven players. Players that other teams were lucky to find, but they can't retain.

brk said:
Ok, fair enough, but I still have an issue with this. For every 100m+ Coutinho there's a ton of players that can do exactly the same role for much, much less. Barcelona fucked up by buying Coutinho and seem like they spent money just for the sake of spending. I don't see how this was a good thing for Barcelona. Wouldn't it have been better for them to have used that money more effectively?

Indeed. But there are aspects that needs separate discussion.

- One of them is that a player must fit the technical project or he will fail, no matter how good he is. Coutinho didn't fit Barcelona's (non existent) project

- Well, one of course is that the player must not be an overrated bum. Coutinho is a very good player but definitely not a 140m one.

- A super hyped player gives a boost to the revenues that justifies an higher price tag. This doesn't justify Coutinho, but other crazy signings. Real Madrid just didn't want to lose the bid war with Man Utd for Gareth Bale, even if he was overpriced. Imagine Real Madrid signing a cheaper equivalent of Gareth Bale. What they save with the transfer fee, they lose it with revenues.

Neruda

Milan Legend

Dec 25, 2020

#2,569

General said:
Do we have actual rumors beyond the ones already mentioned?

To discuss

In

The...

Rumor commode?

No.... no rumors as everyone is at home with their familieS

Come on. You ve been here long enough to know the commode will commode

VultureSheva

Legendary Scout

Dec 25, 2020

#2,570

Milan situation in Galliani?s last few years was to cry man. Signing players from friends, from Genoa?s Preziosi, from the agents who were offering players, like Raiola or Lucci. Then signing a lot of free agent of any age, the likes of Zaccardo, Traore, Torres, Essien, Armero etc believing they are gonna do a Barzagli or a Kucka. Bringing back again the players who were in Milan in the past like Boateng. Our south american scouts were proposing Gustavo Gomez, Jherson Vergara and Vangioni. Then all this ital-Milan bullshit, signing so many italians who had only done something good in small clubs, rarely good players for Milan, the likes of Antonelli, Paletta, Cerci, Bertolacci, Bocchetti, Poli, Destro and being interested in many others like Zaza, Pavoletti, Baselli...

The only good part was Primavera where we got Donnarumma, Locatelli, Gabbia and the rest.

Looking at Galliani?s days and comparing his old fashioned transfer strategies and today?s strategies, you just can?t make this comparison.

Last edited: Dec 25, 2020

Birsaforever

I hate Pink Floyd

Dec 25, 2020

#2,571

brk said:
Our team was very weirdly built and it took some creative tactics by Ancelotti to make it work, depending a lot on Gattuso and Seedorf for balance. He made it work in spite of an ad-hoc squad building which gave him 4 really good attacking midfielders (Pirlo, Rui Costa, Rivaldo and Seedorf). Galliani was just collecting players based on name alone and we got lucky sometimes and not so lucky in others, but that's the point; good scouting reduces this luck factor so that most of the time you know what you're getting and they're going to fit into our team and playstyle.

Galliani ran the team into the ground because he kept insisting on this name only strategy and depending on his gut and the advice of agents. Thanks, but I don't want to do that anymore.

This broader meaning of "scouting" makes me agree 100%

Ronin

Milansochist

Dec 25, 2020

#2,572

General said:
Do we have actual rumors beyond the ones already mentioned?

To discuss

In

The...

Rumor commode?

We can discuss rumors that we start ourselves

Hitchens

In flux

New Era Vanguard

Dec 25, 2020

#2,573

Tantalis said:
For those who get vaccine. My symptoms were the day of: fuzziness of vision for 30 mins and fatigue the rest of day. Following day I had low grade 99.0F fever and headache.

It's not so bad. Hopefully no one here is antivaxer.

It's scheduled to roll out here in two days. Medical professionals and risk groups first.

Keep us posted on how it feels!

Birsaforever

I hate Pink Floyd

Dec 25, 2020

#2,574

Neruda said:
Good for you. Now dont encourage people to inject themselves with god knows what

:fp:

Pingu

American Calcio Milan

Stream Guru

Dec 25, 2020

#2,575

Neruda said:
Good for you. Now dont encourage people to inject themselves with god knows what

Inject the tears of Skriniar.

Ronin

Milansochist

Dec 25, 2020

#2,576

Neruda said:
Good for you. Now dont encourage people to inject themselves with god knows what

:thumbsup:

why spend money on expensive vaxes, when bleach is so easily available

Birsaforever

I hate Pink Floyd

Dec 25, 2020

#2,577

Ronin said:
why spend money on top players, when scouting is so easily available

you must spend

Goodfella

Milan Legend

Dec 25, 2020

#2,578

brk said:
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VultureSheva

Legendary Scout

Dec 25, 2020

#2,579

Birsaforever said:
you must spend

We just spent 35M in Tonali, why you complain?

Ronin

Milansochist

Dec 25, 2020

#2,580

Man, I can't get over how ugly Tonali is. Do we want to see this face for the next 10 years?

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