The Rumour Commode XLVIII: Tare Tare Sauce

Master Smurf

Milan Legend
Joined
Jan 20, 2011
Messages
20,998
Reaction score
41,717
Location
Cayman Islands
Fav. Players
Baggio, Weah, Bergkamp, Becks, Sheva, Kaka, Rooney, Kun, Thiago Silva, Pato, Kessie
Yeah impressive number 10.
And Boudai kid is the same.
Seems like a destroyer only 17 years & already built like a tank :eek:
Get both with Modric & close mercato for the midfield.
Lille's 50 mill valuation seems a bit crazy, I wonder if PSV will also want some big number.

Let's see.
 

Samaldinho

Milan Legend
Joined
May 22, 2012
Messages
34,170
Reaction score
96,355
fb1.jpg
1000016280.jpg
 
  • LOL
Reactions: brk

Alo88

Milan Legend
Joined
Nov 28, 2013
Messages
20,973
Reaction score
51,460
Location
Switzerland
So stop being wrapped up in sentimentality and sell them when they are good or at least the rest of the world hasnt seen their issues for a couple of seasons.
That was the point I am making about the NFL - they get rid of players early rather than late most of the time. Fanbases some times go crazy for awhile but once the replacement can provide similar production you move on.

Why are teams killing themselves to keep players that arent performing, why are we in particular so scared when these players came here as relative unknowns??? As a fan I get the attachment but as a business (if you are serious) there has to be a level of detachment and then you trust in the process of finding the next hungry kid or the player that is comfortable with his pay and is motivated by other things.

Take Bayern - why bring back and pay Sane massive wages when you have your pick of any in Bundes where you can set the rates for them? Make a new Sane instead of chasing the image of the old one IF profit is the more important factor. They know their numbers, they dominate their league and can continue to do so without chasing players that will rock their bottom line ...so in their case what are we really talking about.

Even in Milan's case - if we are just top 4 and making CL it is shown that we will turn a profit so why chase Rafa Mike Theo and give them inflated salaries when you probably can get it done with players on less salary - We made Theo and Rafa so find similar types and try again. Players can go to EPL or Saudi Arabia but there are many others around the world just waiting to be put on.

Tonali was replaced by a cheaper older player and now he went for big money and can be replaced again. Even if he wasnt he would be at an acceptable salary that we couldve used to rest our wage scale. We even got more years out of Theo when he signed the favourable deal. If we sold him last season the fans would be angry but we wouldve made huge money and couldve bought any other young relatively unknown LB at the time to prevent paying too much in the future.

Obviously if you are trying to be the best in the world then you have to compete with Real Barca and EPL on wages as you want the very best players but if you arent in those two leagues and you are a team like Bayern or Milan you can be profitable - so no I cant blame the players when they are employed by far more wealthy owners / corporations.

Oh I perfectly agree with you. It's the other 90% of the fanbase you need to convince.

I mean yes, cut the emotion, sell high, reinvest smart, repeat. Sounds clean. Efficient. Sustainable. Just like the NFL model you mention.

But football isn’t the NFL. There’s no draft. No salary cap. No parity. You can't just "create another Theo or Rafa" at will, because once a player becomes someone, every club in Europe knows their name – and their agent's number. You're not working in a vacuum.

Sure, Milan "made" Theo and Rafa. But that was once. If it were that easy to find the next version of them, every club would be doing it. Reality is: scouting is hit-or-miss, development takes time, time we don't have as seen this year, and replacements don’t come pre-assembled with Serie A experience and Champions League pedigree. You can’t just slap a 10M kid from Ligue 1 into San Siro and expect him to boss the left flank like Theo during Scudetto season. Not always. But try to explain that to a fanbase who still lives off the nostalgia from 15 years ago.

And yes, we can let players go early – but you better believe the second their replacements falter, the same media and fanbase will scream bloody murder. We've seen it. Here. In the press. In television. In San Siro during the protests. This club got crucified for selling Tonali, even if the logic behind the deal was sound. We sold him at his peak value and reinvested. Some fans still call it betrayal. Imagine if we’d done the same with Theo or Leao two years ago.

Also, don’t underestimate the cost of being cold-blooded. Constant churn means no identity. No continuity. No emotional anchor. That’s not just sentiment – that’s value too. A club like Milan lives off its mythology. Off players who feel like Milan. Take that away, and what are you left with? A talent farm? A stepping stone?

I’m not saying we should give in to every wage demand. Far from it. I'm actually arguing the opposite, just like you. But pretending this is purely a business ignores that football, especially at a club like Milan, is also theatre, emotion and loyalty – or at least the illusion of it. Otherwise we’re just Brighton in red and black.

So yeah – players may have the right to ask for what they think they're worth. But clubs also have the right to draw lines. Only that the majority of the fanbase will always take the players side and become their first defenders when arguing about wage demands. As if them making the players even richer somehow helps the club.

The problem is: when we draw those lines, we get punished harder than the ones inflating the market. Because we’re not Bayern, we’re not City, we’re not PSG or Madrid. And that middle ground – trying to compete while staying sustainable – is the tightrope we walk. I'm aware of that. Most of fans aren't and players and agents don't give a fuck.

So long story short: It's not that simple. And with that I made full circle :lol:
 

Master Smurf

Milan Legend
Joined
Jan 20, 2011
Messages
20,998
Reaction score
41,717
Location
Cayman Islands
Fav. Players
Baggio, Weah, Bergkamp, Becks, Sheva, Kaka, Rooney, Kun, Thiago Silva, Pato, Kessie
Oh I perfectly agree with you. It's the other 90% of the fanbase you need to convince.

I mean yes, cut the emotion, sell high, reinvest smart, repeat. Sounds clean. Efficient. Sustainable. Just like the NFL model you mention.

But football isn’t the NFL. There’s no draft. No salary cap. No parity. You can't just "create another Theo or Rafa" at will, because once a player becomes someone, every club in Europe knows their name – and their agent's number. You're not working in a vacuum.

Sure, Milan "made" Theo and Rafa. But that was once. If it were that easy to find the next version of them, every club would be doing it. Reality is: scouting is hit-or-miss, development takes time, time we don't have as seen this year, and replacements don’t come pre-assembled with Serie A experience and Champions League pedigree. You can’t just slap a 10M kid from Ligue 1 into San Siro and expect him to boss the left flank like Theo during Scudetto season. Not always. But try to explain that to a fanbase who still lives off the nostalgia from 15 years ago.

And yes, we can let players go early – but you better believe the second their replacements falter, the same media and fanbase will scream bloody murder. We've seen it. Here. In the press. In television. In San Siro during the protests. This club got crucified for selling Tonali, even if the logic behind the deal was sound. We sold him at his peak value and reinvested. Some fans still call it betrayal. Imagine if we’d done the same with Theo or Leao two years ago.

Also, don’t underestimate the cost of being cold-blooded. Constant churn means no identity. No continuity. No emotional anchor. That’s not just sentiment – that’s value too. A club like Milan lives off its mythology. Off players who feel like Milan. Take that away, and what are you left with? A talent farm? A stepping stone?

I’m not saying we should give in to every wage demand. Far from it. I'm actually arguing the opposite, just like you. But pretending this is purely a business ignores that football, especially at a club like Milan, is also theatre, emotion and loyalty – or at least the illusion of it. Otherwise we’re just Brighton in red and black.

So yeah – players may have the right to ask for what they think they're worth. But clubs also have the right to draw lines. Only that the majority of the fanbase will always take the players side and become their first defenders when arguing about wage demands. As if them making the players even richer somehow helps the club.

The problem is: when we draw those lines, we get punished harder than the ones inflating the market. Because we’re not Bayern, we’re not City, we’re not PSG or Madrid. And that middle ground – trying to compete while staying sustainable – is the tightrope we walk. I'm aware of that. Most of fans aren't and players and agents don't give a fuck.

So long story short: It's not that simple. And with that I made full circle :lol:
I got you and bless you for arguing the other side of the coin.
I once argued the same and probably will again for certain players I think are worth it.

A club like Milan obviously has to operate somewhere in the middle of our POV's but I say you can't be dictated to by sentimentality and then blame the players for their demands 😉.

There will always be players to keep and hopefully we do well in that regard and don't be scared to let some of the dead weight go .... even if they are favoured.
 

Alo88

Milan Legend
Joined
Nov 28, 2013
Messages
20,973
Reaction score
51,460
Location
Switzerland
I got you and bless you for arguing the other side of the coin.
I once argued the same and probably will again for certain players I think are worth it.

A club like Milan obviously has to operate somewhere in the middle of our POV's but I say you can't be dictated to by sentimentality and then blame the players for their demands 😉.

There will always be players to keep and hopefully we do well in that regard and don't be scared to let some of the dead weight go .... even if they are favoured.

Absolutely – appreciate the respectful back-and-forth, mate 😊 And you're spot on: Milan has to find that middle ground. We're not oil-backed, but we're also not a second-tier stepping stone. We need to be smart, tough when needed, ruthless, but not robotic.

Sentimentality can’t dictate decisions – agreed. But ignoring the emotional currency of football is just as risky. The players we choose to keep should earn it – not just with talent, but with commitment first and foremost, and also with awareness of the club’s limits. God knows that's not been the case with certain troublemakers last season. I think we agree on that.

Just one last thing: when players ask for the moon, it’s not about blaming them – it’s about recognising that their asks shape the game. If football’s turning into a hamster wheel of inflated wages and packed calendars, it’s not just the clubs spinning it.

Everyone has their hands on the wheel. Players included.
 

Samaldinho

Milan Legend
Joined
May 22, 2012
Messages
34,170
Reaction score
96,355
So, Furlani bends the knee for Rijnders but plays hard ball for Musah. It's like Bizarro world where everyting is the opposite of what it should be.
Our big sales have been consistently fast, we did not spark bidding wars, nor have we extracted concessions from those teams that would benefit us other than allowing them to spread out the cost (for them) through bonuses that don't even guarantee us money, like Tonali, where Gerry bragged that he got 70m (plus a 10m earn-out) for Tonali... but the books show that we earned 58m from him. Brilliant business, lol.

"We didn’t sell him to Newcastle United because we needed to. We sold him because we got a great offer and we did a risk-reward assessment." That's what Gerry said.

So why not maximize the amount of money you could get from him? You sold him fast to Newcastle. You rewarded their audacity to try and get a player that was widely seen as "untouchable" because he was a Milan fan, etc. Once you put him on the market, you don't tempt Man Utd? Chelsea, the overpaying morons?

He went on:


“And thanks to that sale we bought six new players and completely revamped the squad. We don’t sell out of necessity, we sell out of opportunism. If we remain disciplined, there will always be counterparties on the market who will allow extraordinary returns for the players.”

They didn't need to sell him, and yet they revamped the squad? The squad that just got us 8th?

Now, before someone says "you're not thinking like a businessman" there's a way to maximize assets and he's not doing that.

Let's look at Gerry's famous quote, from the same interview, about winning:

“For the fans, my job is to win the Italian championship every year – I get that. For my investors who are focused on bottom-line appreciation, my job is to position AC Milan to challenge for the Scudetto every year, qualify for the Champions League every year, and go as far as possible in the Champions League every year.
“That’s what maximizes cash flow and brand value. It’s the consistency and lower amplitude in performance volatility that maximizes value and ultimately longevity.”

I'll put aside the fact he admits he needs to challenge for the title every year for his investors, but I get what he's saying: you need to lower the amount of volatility in your performances, you want consistency. I agree with that. The problem is his strategy has created more inconsistency and higher amplitude (I hate finance jargon) with far greater turnover in crucial positions, with inconsistent strategies and unproven theories for success.

He isn't selling well, nor are the replacements he's getting actually performing well enough to justify the unnecessary sale. If Tonali wasn't important, and that's why you sold him, fine, but now you've sold his supposed replacement in Reijnders. Are we saying that Reijnders is not necessary? Without a gambling ban to justify his sale (which if it was known to them [I don't think it was]) it would make the bonuses an even worse choice, it meant that you left money on the table. I don't think that they knew, but regardless of his gambling ban, they did not maximize his sale.

Here's the other element that annoys the shit out of me: if you need to sell players to buy them (which Furlani, Gerry, etc say they do not need to do) then you're budgeting wrong. You need to acquire players, every season, regardless. You might have injuries, players get old, a player's performances might collapse--these are costs that are part-and-parcel to the business. He said he needs to put together title challenging teams, not for fans, for investors.

What I see is someone who wanted to make a big splash to show his prowess and it has blown up in his face. It's not just Milan, it's also his American football league, the XFL, where he was standing next to Dwayne Johnson to announce the league. He wants to be a star, he wants to raise his profile, and he's not doing great with either Milan or the XFL.

It has become abundantly clear he wants to raise his profile, that's why you buy a sports team, to be known.

That's why Gerry fired Maldini, Maldini got in his way, took the spotlight away from him. When we were in the CL semi-finals, it was Maldini who was getting the attention, who was being thanked--same when we won the title. Elliott didn't care, they don't need to be in the spotlight, if anything, they hated it, it's bad for business. It's a sentiment I agree with, personally.

Last year, our official social media pages would publish pictures of Gerry, he made sure to be seen.

Berlusconi used Milan to become Prime Minister, so I don't begrudge Gerry wanting attention to further his goals--but if Berlusconi had Moratti-like returns on Milan in the 80's and 90's, does anyone believe that he can turn things around in Italy and he gets elected?

I think Gerry has done a very good job at putting together deals, and that's great, but he wants to be a face, and Milan, the XFL, getting into the entertainment industry, he wants to be seen--but you need hits, and with movies like Top Gun: Maverick, it seems that he's done better there than in sports. His value in sports is with the media (YES Network) and with stadiums involving the Cowboys and Yankees. Those are the two areas he has shown prowess with Milan, actually. But he thought he could win with Milan with his new approach from Toulouse.

That's what infuriates me: the one area where we did not need him to tinker was the sporting-side of the club, and that's where he meddled the most. He knew more about stadiums than Elliott, he has greater expertise in marketing than Elliott, that's why I think Elliott brought him in--to maximize the asset, because now that they had settled down the sporting side of the club, to grow the brand it needed a stadium for that next jump in revenue (and UEFA doesn't allow you to just pump money in [unless you're PSG]) and marketing to maximize on the incredible popularity of the brand that had gone to waste.

I think Gerry's approach has fucked up so badly that his investors told him to shut the fuck up--hence the Furlani "showdown talks" with lawyers (I've never seen a meeting between a CEO and an owner with lawyers be friendly)--where Furlani was given the tap from investors (which may include Elliott themselves) to allow Gerry to finish his work for the stadium and keep him isolated there. They can't fully kick out his Moncada and Ibra acolytes probably, but Tare and Allegri is such a sharp contrast to what they were doing before, it is clear that the portfolio managers for his investors (whoever they) looked at this season and said: "you just cost us a lot of money."

You can see the difference in Chelsea between how Boehly wanted to do things versus how Eghbali runs Chelsea, still not great, but much different.

The difference between Elliott and Redbird is stark. Elliott saw the utility of success, the utility of experience, the utility of the fuzzy bullshit that fans cry over--that's why they went after Boban and Maldini and Leonardo and all that shit, it's why Gazidis says shit (and I quote): "I hired Paolo Maldini not once or two times. I did it three times, including the last renewal on which I expressed a favourable opinion to the new owners."


So why did he give such a great deal to City? Because Sheikh Mansour (who owns City) is one of his investors. That's why. Redbird are doing deals with Sheikh Mansour to buy The Telegraph, helping Mansour skirt questions by the the UK government over who owns one of their big papers by being the front for the acquisition--as the British have to pretend they are angered by foreign ownership--this is the place where anonymous people can buy property in the country, an absurdity.

So great, he's beholden to Mansour because he needs money from him, which explains why he sold Reijnders so easily--but I don't understand why he'd sell Tonali so easily to the Saudi-owned Newcastle.

If the PIF are the ones who are buying Milan next, bravo, otherwise, he's done them a solid and left Milan worse off, because we could have sold Tonali for a lot more.

Redbird clearly thought they could outsmart everyone, that's why they brought in Billy Beane, that's why they went to Harvard to brag--a very Harvard thing to do--the problem is they have terrible relationships with other Serie A teams, which Massara helped a lot in. They don't have Maldini to open doors and establish relationships that helped us, like with Brahim Diaz, or to get Ibrahimovic to choose us over Napoli, for Theo to come here, for Rafa to come, and Giroud to want to come to Milan, etc. Those relationships are what make the football world go round. They tried to put Ibra in there, and he doesn't have the experience, and it doesn't seem he has the personality to do it either. Ibra can be a great asset, if deployed properly, but, we're talking about Redbird who fired Maldini, but also Massara, and they replaced them with... Moncada.

Redbird's mandate from their investors is to reduce volatility in performance, but they don't know how to--that's why we are on revolution number four in two years. That's the stark reality of their transfer dealings, their executive hires, their coaching hires, and how terrible they have done at every level at this club, from primavera to the first team, they're terrible. And that's why I think their investors have told them to step aside; Tare and Allegri are here to protect the asset from them.
 

brk

Milan Legend
Joined
Aug 24, 2015
Messages
27,131
Reaction score
91,041
Hahaha cunt now can go to al hilal
Why would they pay a premium now that the CWC window is over? They won’t pay nearly as much as they offered before and they probably will turn their noses at him anyway for snubbing them.

He’s leaving for free. Only question is does he respect himself enough to want to play in the World Cup for France or just gives up and rots in the stands.
 

patosheva

Milan Legend
Joined
Mar 7, 2010
Messages
21,754
Reaction score
23,412
Location
Sarajevo,Bih
Why would they pay a premium now that the CWC window is over? They won’t pay nearly as much as they offered before and they probably will turn their noses at him anyway for snubbing them.

He’s leaving for free. Only question is does he respect himself enough to want to play in the World Cup for France or just gives up and rots in the stands.
They will pay couse they NEED thia kind of signings.
And theo is done he will accept al hilal or will be on stands
 

WILL2K

Magical Milan
Joined
Feb 19, 2006
Messages
7,441
Reaction score
6,895
Location
Budapest, Hungary
Fav. Players
Pippo , Maldini , Kaka , Zizou ..
Musah, Reijnders, Tonali etc. I had Theo too but seemed like it was just ruled out last minute. At least we can follow some of our ex-players in next year's Champions League.
 

SuperPippo

Milan Veteran
Joined
Jan 31, 2023
Messages
1,582
Reaction score
5,003
Why would they pay a premium now that the CWC window is over? They won’t pay nearly as much as they offered before and they probably will turn their noses at him anyway for snubbing them.

He’s leaving for free. Only question is does he respect himself enough to want to play in the World Cup for France or just gives up and rots in the stands.
Milan should make that decision for him. Origi treatment if he doesn't leave.
 

Hitchens

Impulsive optimist
New Era Vanguard
Joined
Jun 23, 2015
Messages
34,818
Reaction score
58,421
Location
Norway
Fav. Players
Tier 1: Maldini, Nesta - Tier 2: Kaká, Seedorf, Shevchenko, Serginho, Theo, Leao


Redemption arc beginning day June 12th
 

Schedule
Top