The Rumour Commode L - Take the L

[Milan10]

Apart from Solider, is there anyone out there still debating Messi’s goathood ?

He’s unquestionably the best player of his generation and this century.

Can you truly even truly begin to compare him to someone from different eras and generations like Maradona? Messi has the benefit of modern sports medicine and recovery + he was literally juiced to the fucking gills with HGH when he was 11 years old.

Best of this generation with an asterisk for having more juice in him than Lance Armstrong.

 

[leaf]

Yes.

So if we punish Argentina for their stupid mistakes, we are ruining the entertainment value but when less fashionable countries get penalized for these things, they're just being stupid and throwing away the game?

I'm sorry, brother. I love you, but I vehemently disagree.

This is supposed to be sport. Not the WWE.

Its frightening how many people reason this way

On the one hand you have ppl adhering to the strictest letter of the law for the smaller team

But on the other hand you have the most accommodating friendly refereeing for Argentina

By the strictest interpretation of the law Messi should have been sent off with a red card early on. This would have definitely fucked up Argentina's title run because they struggled with the weaker teams

Trump literally had to lean on FIFA to get a similar punishment reversed. But Argentina gets this consideration for free.

So fuck Argentina and fuck Messi from the bottom of my heart. They will win for sure. Even thinking about putting money on it

 

[papaberlu]

Yes.

So if we punish Argentina for their stupid mistakes, we are ruining the entertainment value but when less fashionable countries get penalized for these things, they're just being stupid and throwing away the game?

I'm sorry, brother. I love you, but I vehemently disagree.

This is supposed to be sport. Not the WWE.

No you can penalize them but context matters

Just killing a highly anticipated match immediately while the players are setting the tone is dumb. Right after that elbow Anderson dragged Enzo down and held him there for a while. Ref didn’t card him either despite being an obvious card, I’m ok with that

It’s not a robotic thing, the stakes and spectacle matters

 

[Massaro94]

Red card every day of the week btw:

 

[leaf]

He’s unquestionably the best player of his generation and this century.

Can you truly even truly begin to compare him to someone from different eras and generations like Maradona? Messi has the benefit of modern sports medicine and recovery + he was literally juiced to the fucking gills with HGH when he was 11 years old.

Best of this generation with an asterisk for having more juice in him than Lance Armstrong.

He's the most wind assisted runner of all time.
There's basically a tornado of favourable circumstances up his ass and referee assistance is only part of it.

But equally his talent is exceptionally rare
His ball control, passing, shooting, crossing, iq, positioning and vision is at the very top of the table.

The only things he doesn't really have is a venomous outside shot (like Enzo's) and an aerial presence

 

[Merosso]

Yeah but Real Madrid sell Nico Paz or Mario Gila, not Victor Eletu to a Serie C club

Yeah, but what about Liberali last year, Chaka Traore, many youngster left for free, like Lontani, Longoni in addition to Samuel Pisati an interesting winger gone also for free to Como, or Vittorio Magnibwho was a promised RB.

 

[Edu-bY-A]

 

[sheva]

The ironic thing about this picture is the "muslim" and Palestine supporting CR7 fanboys use this pic in dishonesty and deception, claiming messi is a zionist. Everyone knows this was a promotional tour for unicef where they also visited Palestine.
Sickening hypocrisy from demented CR7 fans..(i am muslim myself btw).

+ Trinidadian coconut conspiracy theorist as well

 

[Samaldinho]

Its frightening how many people reason this way

On the one hand you have ppl adhering to the strictest letter of the law for the smaller team

But on the other hand you have the most accommodating friendly refereeing for Argentina

By the strictest interpretation of the law Messi should have been sent off with a red card early on. This would have definitely fucked up Argentina's title run because they struggled with the weaker teams

Trump literally had to lean on FIFA to get a similar punishment reversed. But Argentina gets this consideration for free.

So fuck Argentina and fuck Messi from the bottom of my heart. They will win for sure. Even thinking about putting money on it

This goes beyond Messi and Argentina. Argentina are the most visible (and blatant) beneficiaries, but England's goal against Norway looked like it hit the wire pretty clearly--and that's the most black-and-white rule for VAR intervention, because the rules say that if the ball hits anything the play is stopped. If I'm from Norway I'd be losing my mind, they could be in the semi-finals.

England vs. Ghana, England should have a red and penalty against them, nothing. But because it was against Ghana, we shrug it off and move on.

Trump leaning on Fifa has actually made this entire thing worse because his actions laid bare the corruption--if you get a red card, you have to sit out the next game, and we all know that Ghana, Algeria, or Morocco are not getting that reprieve. I don't want to get into politics, truly, I don't.

But I agree with you on the idea that for one team, we talk about "letter of the law" and the word "objectively" is used (incorrectly)--but when it comes to the popular teams? What happens? Oh, it wasn't a really a foul, even if it is in the rule book, oh it wasn't a big deal, etc etc now all of a sudden the "letter of the law" doesn't matter anymore.

 

[Alo88]

Never thought that there would be more suitors for Estupinan than for Leao TBH.

 

[Ryo]

Never thought that there seem to be more suitors for Estupinan than for Leao TBH.

Cause Pervis is actually hardworking.
He's just not suited for Serie A.

 

[Papa_midnight]

Apart from Solider, is there anyone out there still debating Messi’s goathood ?

The only player that can talk to him is pele. I actually think messi and pele are the goat convo. They are both the best in their time by a country mile. Everyone else was great to good. But them. They are the only true goats

 

[Gennaro8]

The only player that can talk to him is pele. I actually think messi and pele are the goat convo. They are both the best in their time by a country mile. Everyone else was great to good. But them. They are the only true goats

Pele who? You cant compare halfpro football with this

 

[Massaro94]

Rigged

Absolutely embarassing

 

[Samaldinho]

No you can penalize them but context matters

Just killing a highly anticipated match immediately while the players are setting the tone is dumb. Right after that elbow Anderson dragged Enzo down and held him there for a while. Ref didn’t card him either despite being an obvious card, I’m ok with that

It’s not a robotic thing, the stakes and spectacle matters

No, I'm sorry, this means that we no longer have a sporting contest.

If the players do things to kill their team's chances, why shouldn't they be punished?

If we go with this context argument, then why punish Embolo for the dive? Did that not ruin the entertainment? The spectacle? The Swiss had Argentina on the ropes. But what happens instead? They use VAR to go back and award the second yellow. Why did that not ruin the spectacle?

I think yellows for dives, particularly in the age of VAR, are stupid and simply provide an avenue for corruption, but that's an aside--and a position I'm pretty firm on, but again, that's beside the point.

Do we think that second yellow comes for an Argentine or English or French player? If the answer is no, then we have to ask ourselves, what's the point of competing then?

These less fashionable nations are supposed to feel better because they gave a big team a run for their money, rather than feel cheated--that's their consolation prize apparently. "Aw, good job, you gave them a scare! Enjoy the new followers Vozinha!" What if Cape Verde went to the final and won? What if Norway gets the call against England and then in the semis just kept spamming crosses to Haaland so he can dunk on Argentina and Norway wins it all?

When English defenders give up penalties (the sort of thing VAR is supposed to guard against) and red card offenses against Ghana, it's nothing. Nope! Sorry. Ghana should have done better, silly Africans, don't be so naive--that is what is said to them. But to punish Argentina? England? No, we can't do that. Why not?

The reality is that Argentina or England (or anyone in that grouping) are never going to be screwed by the refs against Ghana or Switzerland, I'm just glad that we're at a point where we can all admit that the hypocrisy is built into the system.

 

[forward]

What kind of signals are we talking here?

 

[Papa_midnight]

Pele who? You cant compare halfpro football with this

Well I think should judge based on era. I mean messi would not be able to play in Pele's time without the medical advancement. That does not tarnish him now. Pele was the greatess of his era and so is messi

 

[IL-Capitano]

This goes beyond Messi and Argentina. Argentina are the most visible (and blatant) beneficiaries, but England's goal against Norway looked like it hit the wire pretty clearly--and that's the most black-and-white rule for VAR intervention, because the rules say that if the ball hits anything the play is stopped. If I'm from Norway I'd be losing my mind, they could be in the semi-finals.

England vs. Ghana, England should have a red and penalty against them, nothing. But because it was against Ghana, we shrug it off and move on.

Trump leaning on Fifa has actually made this entire thing worse because his actions laid bare the corruption--if you get a red card, you have to sit out the next game, and we all know that Ghana, Algeria, or Morocco are not getting that reprieve. I don't want to get into politics, truly, I don't.

But I agree with you on the idea that for one team, we talk about "letter of the law" and the word "objectively" is used (incorrectly)--but when it comes to the popular teams? What happens? Oh, it wasn't a really a foul, even if it is in the rule book, oh it wasn't a big deal, etc etc now all of a sudden the "letter of the law" doesn't matter anymore.

Agreed. There have been so many questionable decisions throughout the entire tournament.

As you mention the Ghana v England game just one example of several the England CB’s Konsa I think constantly and illegally held or obstructed the Ghana forward but was never punished for it.

The Ghana forward complained multiple times to the ref but was brushed away. You could see him at the hydration breaks raising the point with the ref, his coaching team and they were doing their best to calm him down.

Both Argentina and England were big beneficiaries of decisions like this throughout.

 

[leaf]

This goes beyond Messi and Argentina. Argentina are the most visible (and blatant) beneficiaries, but England's goal against Norway looked like it hit the wire pretty clearly--and that's the most black-and-white rule for VAR intervention, because the rules say that if the ball hits anything the play is stopped. If I'm from Norway I'd be losing my mind, they could be in the semi-finals.

England vs. Ghana, England should have a red and penalty against them, nothing. But because it was against Ghana, we shrug it off and move on.

Trump leaning on Fifa has actually made this entire thing worse because his actions laid bare the corruption--if you get a red card, you have to sit out the next game, and we all know that Ghana, Algeria, or Morocco are not getting that reprieve. I don't want to get into politics, truly, I don't.

But I agree with you on the idea that for one team, we talk about "letter of the law" and the word "objectively" is used (incorrectly)--but when it comes to the popular teams? What happens? Oh, it wasn't a really a foul, even if it is in the rule book, oh it wasn't a big deal, etc etc now all of a sudden the "letter of the law" doesn't matter anymore.

Nobody cares about the smaller nations
In Trinidad's first and only World Cup in 2006, the opening goal was scored by holding the hair of one of our defenders and pulling him down so that Peter Crouch could score. It didn't make nearly as much of a commotion as it would have been if the shoe were on the other foot. Way of the world I guess

 

[Massaro94]

The ironic thing about this picture is the "muslim" and Palestine supporting CR7 fanboys use this pic in dishonesty and deception, claiming messi is a zionist. Everyone knows this was a promotional tour for unicef where they also visited Palestine.
Sickening hypocrisy from demented CR7 fans..(i am muslim myself btw).

Let them have it, if thats all they got left to defend their goat.

Messi got 3 finals in 4 tournaments... best part is those 3 finals are spread all over the world...where as some nations have only ever won in their own continent.

There's levels to this sport that some will never be able to experience

I actually feel sorry for them. So let them have it mate.

 

[Samaldinho]

Well I think should judge based on era. I mean messi would not be able to play in Pele's time without the medical advancement. That does not tarnish him now. Pele was the greatess of his era and so is messi

I think people wildly underestimate the quality of players in the past.

 

[Hitchens]

Brahim would be an exceptional signing.

Would really make me excited for the new season.

 

[papaberlu]

No, I'm sorry, this means that we no longer have a sporting contest.

If the players do things to kill their team's chances, why shouldn't they be punished?

If we go with this context argument, then why punish Embolo for the dive? Did that not ruin the entertainment? The spectacle? The Swiss had Argentina on the ropes. But what happens instead? They use VAR to go back and award the second yellow. Why did that not ruin the spectacle?

I think yellows for dives, particularly in the age of VAR, are stupid and simply provide an avenue for corruption, but that's an aside--and a position I'm pretty firm on, but again, that's beside the point.

Do we think that second yellow comes for an Argentine or English or French player? If the answer is no, then we have to ask ourselves, what's the point of competing then?

These less fashionable nations are supposed to feel better because they gave a big team a run for their money, rather than feel cheated--that's their consolation prize apparently. "Aw, good job, you gave them a scare! Enjoy the new followers Vozinha!" What if Cape Verde went to the final and won? What if Norway gets the call against England and then in the semis just kept spamming crosses to Haaland so he can dunk on Argentina and Norway wins it all?

When English defenders give up penalties (the sort of thing VAR is supposed to guard against) and red card offenses against Ghana, it's nothing. Nope! Sorry. Ghana should have done better, silly Africans, don't be so naive--that is what is said to them. But to punish Argentina? England? No, we can't do that. Why not?

The reality is that Argentina or England (or anyone in that grouping) are never going to be screwed by the refs against Ghana or Switzerland, I'm just glad that we're at a point where we can all admit that the hypocrisy is built into the system.

Because he dove at minute 72? If he got carded for diving in the 2nd minute of a ko match I’d say that’s harsh

You are confusing me saying it’s okay for the ref to not kill the spectacle out of the gate to showing favoritism to a big side because it’s more entertaining for them to win or whatever. I was looking forward to that England game, if the ref sent off Enzo in the opening minutes while the players were tasting the game and getting settled in I’d be annoyed. It’s not the same as showing favoritism once that opening period is over

It’s not about underdogs/favorites. Literally just don’t kill the spectacle everyone’s looking forward to before it gets going

 

[Samaldinho]

Phil Foden? Maybe City like the idea of sending him to Milan, instead of another EPL team, and since he's a youth player, they can accept less of a fee because (1) he's their youth player [so pure profit] and (2) they're selling him to a non-EPL team so less chance of blowback?

Or is this just another case of Milan's name being used to help a player's career? Probably that, right?

Let's say Foden actually is an option, would you guys want him? Let's say we pay 40-50m for him, give him 7m net wages (his current City salary)--do you take that transfer?

 

[Forza Rossoneri]

What kind of signals are we talking here?

How good is he. I haven't watched him outside our matches.

Will he be loyal to the shirt and not a mercenary like Taarabt who is all about oneself.

 

[Wild]

Never thought that there seem to be more suitors for Estupinan than for Leao TBH.

 

[Samaldinho]

Because he dove at minute 72? If he got carded for diving in the 2nd minute of a ko match I’d say that’s harsh

You are confusing me saying it’s okay for the ref to not kill the spectacle out of the gate to showing favoritism to a big side because it’s more entertaining for them to win or whatever. I was looking forward to that England game, if the ref sent off Enzo in the opening minutes while the players were tasting the game and getting settled in I’d be annoyed. It’s not the same as showing favoritism once that opening period is over

It’s not about underdogs/favorites. Literally just don’t kill the spectacle everyone’s looking forward to before it gets going

I'm comfortable with players getting red cards in the first minute when they hit other players in the head. I don't think that's about "feeling out the game" when it's a pretty textbook red card and where VAR should be coming in.

But it is about the special treatment favorites get--they are given the license to do things that other players cannot. If an Algerian player hit an Argentine player to "set the tone" or "feel the game" do you think he gets away with it? No. That player has ruined his team's chances because he lost his head and hit another player.

If a player slips and gives up a penalty in the first minute, do we waive it on because it's too early in the game? In a pick-up game, sure, but here? The World Cup?

I don't think England lost this game because of the ref, I think Tuchel should carry the (vast) majority of the blame--but there is still a spectacle when a team is down to ten men.

Why this distinction at minute 72? Who cares? It ruined the spectacle by giving him that yellow for diving. It was the most exciting part of the game.

 

[IL-Capitano]

Phil Foden? Maybe City like the idea of sending him to Milan, instead of another EPL team, and since he's a youth player, they can accept less of a fee because (1) he's their youth player [so pure profit] and (2) they're selling him to a non-EPL team so less chance of blowback?

Or is this just another case of Milan's name being used to help a player's career? Probably that, right?

Let's say Foden actually is an option, would you guys want him? Let's say we pay 40-50m for him, give him 7m net wages (his current City salary)--do you take that transfer?

He showed good form around 23/24 and was untouchable for City. He’s been off form since. My fear would be a similar case we’ve had with RLC.

Foden is clearly a better player than RLC but would Milan be taking on a player in a downward trajectory but for a much larger fee ? Is the gamble worth taking ?

 

[Massaro94]

We all know that Messi avoids taking political positions and doesn't have the same personality as Maradona, and that's perfectly fine — he has every right to remain just a football player. As for Cristiano, we all know he only seems interested in satisfying his ego. He doesn't even appear to have close friends in football,.. he didn't even congratulate Modric when he won the Ballon d'Or.

Not everyone is Muhammad Ali.

And thats perfectly fine.

 

[Shiby]

Phil Foden? Maybe City like the idea of sending him to Milan, instead of another EPL team, and since he's a youth player, they can accept less of a fee because (1) he's their youth player [so pure profit] and (2) they're selling him to a non-EPL team so less chance of blowback?

Or is this just another case of Milan's name being used to help a player's career? Probably that, right?

Let's say Foden actually is an option, would you guys want him? Let's say we pay 40-50m for him, give him 7m net wages (his current City salary)--do you take that transfer?

Yes, he's only 26, so the upside would be huge. Considering today's transfer fees, €40m would be well worth the risk. I'd compare it to Barcelona signing Rashford, except I think Foden is the more talented player.