The Rumour Commode XLI: Ragnarok

[Samaldinho]

Same thing was said when we signed Messias.
It isnt the transfer itself , its the concept of having a lazy staff.

Maldini is lazy now? Lol.

At least Messias can score a goal or two unlike Ziyech.

There is no evidence that Diaz is a good RW.

Huh? His best performances for Milan have come from him playing RW. What are you even talking about?

 

[pippofan]

It's fine to have a strategy of depending on youth and counting on their growth, it has worked well with a few exceptions, but you need a mix of experience as well, players that have proven their worth, not broken down veterans like Florenzi. Marotta is an artist in that regard signing Dzeko and especially Mkhitaryan. When I heard that the Arminian was available on a free last year I wanted him at Milan but the consensus here was that he's too old. Mkit has been superb at Inter as he was at Roma and this season has won the starting job over Brozovic. Yes BROZOVIC who everyone hailed as the best regista in Serie A. To make room for the Armenian Inzaghi moved Hakan to DM, a genius move. I also like El Sha, not too old at 30, who's been very productive at Roma. Another example is Berardi who many here undervalue but is a favorite of Sarri who wanted him at Napoli and now Lazio.
So, I would sign SES on a free to back-up Leao allowing to rest more often, and buy Berardi for 25 millions to start at RW with Salad behind him. Berardi is a proven scorer in Serie A so we don't have to depend on the left side only to make things happen. I also like Arnautovic because every time I see him play he does well, even though is 32. He can split time with Giroud while some young unknown or Colombo as 3rd striker. Arnautovic is not slow and has all the tools while his character is questionable as he showed at Inter. Add MSM for 30 millions and we'd be fighting for the second star.

Maignan
Calabria Thiaw Tomori Theo
(Kalulu)
Tonali SMS
Berardi Kamada Leao
Giroud
(Arnautovic)

 

[Curupira]

Everytime we splash we fail.

Besides, you can't just sell Tomori. You need at least three parties for a transfer. Is that so difficult to understand? In addition, €40 million is completely ridiculous.

Even if management and scouting have done all the due diligence, some of the signings are just bound to not work out.

Imagine the following scenarios:

- CdK is presented last summer along with Botman, Renato Sanches, and a RW signing and let's say we comfortably get top 4 with all the other results being equal. Most would probably say yea, let's just give him another season and see how he does instead of questioning MM.

- CdK is presented last summer while we already have a performing player in the position that we scouted him to play. Pioli can just point to CdK and say, this is how you can contribute and if you start doing these things (albeit in your own way) you will play more..

- We have a manager with a defined attacking system who can teach CdK. "When you go into the game, you should be doing a, b, c. In certain scenario, you can count on a teammate being in this position bc we have drilled this repeatedly".

We have none of these things, which means it's all up to the player to figure it out on top of being in a new country and adjusting to a new league. On top that, we have the ownership being stingy, which means we have less darts to throw.

These are pains you have to live with when you don't want to put in as much money as others and rely on "being smarter than others" as a strategy.

 

[Wild]

Maldini is lazy now? Lol.

At least Messias can score a goal or two unlike Ziyech.

When they accept mediocrity like Messias rather than trying to find better players then thats lazy.
Meanwhile , you enjoy Messais.

Huh? His best performances for Milan have come from him playing RW. What are you even talking about?

I answered that question in the same post you quoted.

 

[Curupira]

The piolification of spaletti

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Nah. This will be the 3rd position where Spalletti achieved at least bare minimum but left due to mutual consent, even though people will swear up and down sooner or later all managers gets "found out" and gets fired for bad results like Pioli has repeatedly

 

[pippofan]

Everytime we splash we fail.

Besides, you can't just sell Tomori. You need at least three parties for a transfer. Is that so difficult to understand? In addition, €40 million is completely ridiculous.

I think Tomori would accept going to EPL. It was just an example of how someone can reinforce the squad without overspending but to do that you have to sacrifice someone. That's what Napoli does by selling Koulibaly, Ramon Diaz, and others. We still have Kalulu who hasn't played really well but has shown he's capable.

 

[DonSilvio]

I hate the results against Inter and blame Pioli a fair bit for those. I think our failures this season are multi faceted tho, and I think a weak squad has limited Pioli even more than he actually is tactically. To me giving him a squad with depth and quality is our best option. He's delivered a CL semi this season, like it or not. Too many here choose to take only the bad with the Pioli, he has shown many good things this season, particularly two knockout ties that were handled in the best traditions of AC Milan.

Adli? I would have liked to see him given more chances, but that doesn't make me think that I know better than Pioli. Contrary to some here, I don't think Adli is some magic spell that would have fixed our season. People have bashed Pioli for his treatment of Thiaw, but I'd say the way he's integrated him situates Thiaw very nicely for a future starting spot here. Vranckx? Looked promising at times, and certainly not at other times. CDK is a ludicrous flop so far, but if he turns out better next season and becomes something, the 43m(most of the window last season) spent on him and Thiaw will have been a long term success. CDK has a long ways to go before that happens tho.

For me this season is largely a story of a misfiring and poorly constructed squad, with several intangibles. There wasn't sufficient reason to expect this many players to do this poorly, but here we are. It's sport. As I've said before I think this was an important season to experience for the squad, and however much I hated that exit vs Inter I think it will be important motivational fuel for many of the promising starters in this squad.

I freely admit mistakes which I think is a healthy practice. I have vastly underestimated how much of a mistake it was not replacing Kessie. We need a feared midfield, we had that with him and now it was a mess. I nevertheless loath Kessie himself and never want him back, but his output should have been replaced and wasn't.

But first we have to secure CL. Dai.

Our mercatos hardly ever address all the major areas of dire upgrades needed and we all know why. If you know Pioli is the guy or deserves more time, then what does Maldini need to deliver to him? Does he need all of the upgrades in CF, AM, RW, RB, DM this summer to arrive? No way in hell are we upgrading them all. We are simply going to have to do more with less and that requires a football mind. Pioli has shown he takes way too long to adjust when there is a need for one. He makes changes when things get dire instead of seeing the signs ahead. The changes he made in response to the January results was such a play it safe approach that you could hardly call it football. His inability to deal with bottom feeders and take those easy points would have cost us dearly if not for Juve.

I don't know about being a savior but we can all agree that Adli deserved more time to show his worth but the bigger issue is nobody knows wtf is going on. Why is he in the perpetual dog house?

Not an ingrate. Just that his time here has long expired but I guess we are not letting him go anytime soon so we might as well wait and see if the pro Pioli camp sees something I don't.

 

[ACM14061988]

It's fine to have a strategy of depending on youth and counting on their growth, it has worked well with a few exceptions, but you need a mix of experience as well, players that have proven their worth, not broken down veterans like Florenzi. Marotta is an artist in that regard signing Dzeko and especially Mkhitaryan. When I heard that the Arminian was available on a free last year I wanted him at Milan but the consensus here was that he's too old. Mkit has been superb at Inter as he was at Roma and this season has won the starting job over Brozovic. Yes BROZOVIC who everyone hailed as the best regista in Serie A. To make room for the Armenian Inzaghi moved Hakan to DM, a genius move. I also like El Sha, not too old at 30, who's been very productive at Roma. Another example is Berardi who many here undervalue but is a favorite of Sarri who wanted him at Napoli and now Lazio.
So, I would sign SES on a free to back-up Leao allowing to rest more often, and buy Berardi for 25 millions to start at RW with Salad behind him. Berardi is a proven scorer in Serie A so we don't have to depend on the left side only to make things happen. I also like Arnautovic because every time I see him play he does well, even though is 32. He can split time with Giroud while some young unknown or Colombo as 3rd striker. Arnautovic is not slow and has all the tools while his character is questionable as he showed at Inter. Add MSM for 30 millions and we'd be fighting for the second star.

Maignan
Calabria Thiaw Tomori Theo
(Kalulu)
Tonali SMS
Berardi Kamada Leao
Giroud
(Arnautovic)

This team hardly finish in top 4

 

[Swagotelli]

What’s with these baldies and tattoos

 

[Edu-bY-A]

Even if management and scouting have done all the due diligence, some of the signings are just bound to not work out.

100% true. Every transfer is risky. You can only try to limit the risk as much as possible.

... and guys, what luck that we didn't get Renato Sanches. Trapattoni would have said, "Isse ständig nur verletzt.".

If we continue to act wisely, get into the Champions League year after year and start making profits every year, we will have a financial cushion that will give us an advantage in the fight for the Scudetto and in the transfer market.

Patience is the key. 2021/22 was necessary because of the settlement agreement with UEFA.

You can't recover from the shitshow between 2008 and 2018 in three years, especially if a pandemic intervenes.

 

[Curupira]

I don't know about being a savior but we can all agree that Adli deserved more time to show his worth but the bigger issue is nobody knows wtf is going on. Why is he in the perpetual dog house?

Because we have a manager who appreciates individuality more to bail us out of situations when our plan A (Chaos) doesn't work. And there are players who are better fits for plan A.

Not an ingrate. Just that his time here has long expired but I guess we are not letting him go anytime soon so we might as well wait and see if the pro Pioli camp sees something I don't.

From a purely financial perspective, Pioli makes a ton more sense than Conte or De Zerbi. Players like Adli we can always try to flip for a plus valenza like Hauge. (And maybe spend that money on Ludovic Blas - hope this gets sam off my back)

 

[Samaldinho]

When they accept mediocrity like Messias rather than trying to find better players then thats lazy.
Meanwhile , you enjoy Messais.

I don't like Messias, but I'm not about to cry over a 5.4m RW who does enough until they find the right target.

I enjoy Messias being able to outperform Ziyech by pretty significant margins for a lot less money.

I answered that question in the same post you quoted.

Yeah, it still didn't make sense, lol.

I have hated on Brahim nearly his entire team here, and I'm not about to defend Brahim now.

 

[DonSilvio]

Adli we can always try to flip for a plus valenza like Hauge

Will need to play him a little more than that to show off his worth

 

[Samaldinho]

What’s with these baldies and tattoos

This is so fucking funny.

The meltdown over "SeRiOuS cOaChEs would NEVER get a tattoo, I'm soooooo angrrrryyyyyyy. We should get Spaletti insteaddddd."

Looool.

 

[Mario]

Dalot is a free agent and still didnt renew with utd?

id welcome him back with open arms, much better player than our rbs plus he can cover theo too

 

[Curupira]

Dalot is a free agent and still didnt renew with utd?

id welcome him back with open arms, much better player than our rbs plus he can cover theo too

 

[Soldier_of_god]

Sounds like a best case scenario to me.
Weakens Napoli, majorly weakens Merda.

They still have that lesbo bitch latuaro who only scores vs us. He is a pussy vs other big teams.

 

[Wild]

I don't like Messias, but I'm not about to cry over a 5.4m RW who does enough until they find the right target.

I enjoy Messias being able to outperform Ziyech by pretty significant margins for a lot less money.


Yeah, it still didn't make sense, lol.

I have hated on Brahim nearly his entire team here, and I'm not about to defend Brahim now.

Diaz had a few games where he was better as a RW than AM, he also looked better than Messais & Sale.
However his level at RW isnt enough.
Whats not making sense ?

 

[Curupira]

They still have that lesbo bitch latuaro who only scores vs us. He is a pussy vs other big teams.

 

[pippofan]

This team hardly finish in top 4

We'll never know as it won't happen

 

[Deep Fried Pizza & Chips]

Fuck marry kill


Pioli
Diaz
Messias

Or murder kill destroy?

 

[Omer]

Even if management and scouting have done all the due diligence, some of the signings are just bound to not work out.

Imagine the following scenarios:

- CdK is presented last summer along with Botman, Renato Sanches, and a RW signing and let's say we comfortably get top 4 with all the other results being equal. Most would probably say yea, let's just give him another season and see how he does instead of questioning MM.

- CdK is presented last summer while we already have a performing player in the position that we scouted him to play. Pioli can just point to CdK and say, this is how you can contribute and if you start doing these things (albeit in your own way) you will play more..

- We have a manager with a defined attacking system who can teach CdK. "When you go into the game, you should be doing a, b, c. In certain scenario, you can count on a teammate being in this position bc we have drilled this repeatedly".

We have none of these things, which means it's all up to the player to figure it out on top of being in a new country and adjusting to a new league. On top that, we have the ownership being stingy, which means we have less darts to throw.

These are pains you have to live with when you don't want to put in as much money as others and rely on "being smarter than others" as a strategy.

Exactly, all the big European clubs spend do multiple medium / big signings at a time. And then some of them work out and some don't. One 32 mil player not working straight away doesn't mean much by itself. It's impossible to get every transfer right, even if that transfer is a 30 mil plus transfer.

At the same time the Origi signing was really bad. The guy hardly played much for the last few years. But maybe the management was forced to look for a free transfer striker with a salary within the club salary limits ( ruling out Dzeko and Dybala ) as they wanted to preserve the low transfer budget for other players.

The low transfer budget really fucked things up. It's impossible to be a big European club and keep spending like a small club. If your scouting is good then you don't have to spend like PSG / Barca, but you still need to have the ability to buy any 20-25 mil plus player that you like without worrying too much about the budget.

The players costing 25 mil and below that Milan has missed out on over the last few years include Dani Olmo, Szoboszlai, Julian Alvarez, Enzo Fernandez, Moise Caicedo, Saint Maximin, Pedri ....... Missing out on these type of transfers makes a huge difference!

 

[brk]

Exactly, all the big European clubs spend do multiple medium / big signings at a time. And then some of them work out and some don't. One 32 mil player not working straight away doesn't mean much by itself. It's impossible to get every transfer right even if that transfer is a 30 mil plus transfer.

At the same time the Origi signing was really bad. The guy hardly played much for the last few years. But maybe the management was forced to look for a free transfer striker with a salary within the club salary limits ( ruling out Dzeko and Dybala ) as they wanted to preserve the low transfer budget for other players.

The low transfer budget really fucked things up. It's impossible to be a big European club and keep spending like a small club. If you're scouting is good then you don't have to spend like PSG / Barca, but you still need to have the ability to buy any 20-25 mil plus player that you like without worrying too much about the budget.

The players costing 25 mil and below that Milan has missed out on over the last few years include Dani Olmo, Szoboszlai, Julian Alvarez, Enzo Fernandez, Moise Caicedo, Saint Maximin, Pedri ....... Missing out on these type of transfers makes a huge difference!

I wonder what our batting average is compared to other big clubs. Over a 4 year period, looking at our wins and our busts, do we end up with a better success rate than most other big clubs? I'd like to think we do, but what would be the metric to do it objectively?

 

[MilanBG]

This is so fucking funny.

The meltdown over "SeRiOuS cOaChEs would NEVER get a tattoo, I'm soooooo angrrrryyyyyyy. We should get Spaletti insteaddddd."

Looool.

I would've been funny if it was true. I don't recall anyone here claiming Spaletti is some amazing coach.

 

[Edu-bY-A]

Talking about Mikautadze and Ligue 2 players...

 

[Curupira]

I wonder what our batting average is compared to other big clubs. Over a 4 year period, looking at our wins and our busts, do we end up with a better success rate than most other big clubs? I'd like to think we do, but what would be the metric to do it objectively?

There isn't an objective way to compare obviously, as clubs have different goals which changes the very definition of "success".

 

[Curupira]

I would've been funny if it was true. I don't recall anyone here claiming Spaletti is some amazing coach.

This is a less ridiculous conclusion than HA HA HA he got a tattoo of his scudetto, what a loser.

 

[Edu-bY-A]

By the way, I think last summer the pending takeover and especially and in particular the saga around the extensions of Maldini and Massara were more damaging and relevant than our budget.

 

[Hitchens]

Our mercatos hardly ever address all the major areas of dire upgrades needed and we all know why. If you know Pioli is the guy or deserves more time, then what does Maldini need to deliver to him? Does he need all of the upgrades in CF, AM, RW, RB, DM this summer to arrive? No way in hell are we upgrading them all. We are simply going to have to do more with less and that requires a football mind. Pioli has shown he takes way too long to adjust when there is a need for one. He makes changes when things get dire instead of seeing the signs ahead. The changes he made in response to the January results was such a play it safe approach that you could hardly call it football. His inability to deal with bottom feeders and take those easy points would have cost us dearly if not for Juve.

I think all these bombastic claims about what Pioli is and isn't capable of are circumstantial and laden with context. However, our lethargic approach against bottom feeders is a big issue. I believe he has the tools to address that shortcoming if he gets a stronger squad with more weaponry next season.

I agree on the mercatos, they're never immediately gratifying But more often than not I'd say they have done very well considering the funds. CDK was a flop so that's a failure, but who knows, that might change.

I don't think that signing one good RW is necessarily the answer. I want one of course, but like I said last summer I think strengthening the central line from CM through to CF will do equally well to make our play click more. I don't think Brahim is the answer, but I want to keep him around, possibly as that RW. Signing a really good CF that can bench Giroud is paramount for me. And I'd be happy to let Messias go for a player with a far higher ceiling. And I quite rate Messias because of hit output.

We're pretty much in agreement by the way. It's not like I think Pioli hasn't made tons of mistakes this season, but I think he's had too little to work with, especially towards that main challenge of beating low-block teams. And I blame the fucking players as well. I just think what's the most realistic is that he stays on with a more competitive squad and that he eventually transitions out if he's underperforming with a better squad. Because of the CL run I don't think we can say that he's underperformed with the current squad, his bench has given him next to nothing.

PS: The best criticism of Pioli I read all season is the one where @Samaldinho picked apart his tactical setup against Inter in the semis. Major fuckup, but he also took us that far.

 

[Omer]

I wonder what our batting average is compared to other big clubs. Over a 4 year period, looking at our wins and our busts, do we end up with a better success rate than most other big clubs? I'd like to think we do, but what would be the metric to do it objectively?

I guess one way to measure it would be to see the average increase / decrease in value of players bought in. But even that doesn't give the full picture. For example young players will go up more in value than older players, but the older player transfer could still be considered a success if he does well even if he doesn't increase in value (Mkhitaryan , Dzeko, Giroud ).

Maybe it's better just to take a holistic approach and look at the yearly squad costs ( which incorporates transfer spending and salaries ) and the results of the team. For that Milan has maybe one of the lowest squad costs among the big Italian clubs. So based on that the Milan management would have done better than the management of the other big Italian clubs. Inter only has a few points more, but their squad costs are much higher than Milan's.

Another team that has done really well for their squad cost is Atalanta. Their could be something to learn from how Atalanta manage their squad and their transfers.