Ronaldo Thread

[leaf]

it's nice to see fellow ronaldo fan trying to slap some sense to haters
cheers for that brah

as for me, I see ronaldo as god
I don't defend my god, my god defend me

in your face haterss muahahaha

They say a picture tells a thousand words.... This version of Ronaldo, i.e. Post 2000 is actually only 75% of the legend. His explosive pace was gone and he was merely a "regular fast" player (who could still run a 100 in under 11s ). I remember the 2002 WC commentators saying that Ron and Rivaldo only had two healthy knees between them. It didn't stop him from winning the World Cup (you're welcome Kakà), winning top scorer in WC, and Spain, breaking the record and winning the golden ball

Look at Sheva's, Torres' and Kakà's decline after losing their pace. Honestly the only player I've seen reinvent himself as well was ADP and he took a while to start back producing at the highest level.

 

[Soldier_of_god]

Eto'o without pace is still fucking good.

 

[Kvothe]

I think Ronaldo was better than Messi, he was unstoppable. But I was quite young when Ronaldo was in his prime, so its possible that I don't remember a lot of his bad performances.

Most people who started watching football in the early 90's consider Romario to be better than Ronaldo, something I can't really agree with.

 

[Soldier_of_god]

all this 'r9 would be this if he put in a 100 percent, would be that if he aimed to become the best player in the world' notion is pure conjecture. Seems like an excuse to hide his limitations. As much as i hate that pipsqueak, i still believe messi is better than r9. Sheva > r9 for me in CLUB football. Why should r9 be considered as the greatest when he himself doesnt have the motivation and the mental resolve to be that player.

 

[leaf]

all this 'r9 would be this if he put in a 100 percent, would be that if he aimed to become the best player in the world' notion is all pure conjecture. Seems like an excuse to hide his limitations. As much as i hate that pipsqueak, i still believe messi is better than r9. Sheva > r9 for me in CLUB football. Why should r9 be considered as the greatest when he himself doesnt have the motivation and the mental resolve to be that player.

It's not conjecture because Ronaldo already had won the World Player of the Year TWICE. One at age 20 as the youngest winner ever and one at age 21. It isn't a far stretch to believe that if his body kept intact, he could have won much more. The fact that he again won it six years later, with diminished abilities is proof enough.

 

[Madridista]

40 year old weighing 100+ kg = fatass? Is this the math?

 

[Madridista]

all this 'r9 would be this if he put in a 100 percent, would be that if he aimed to become the best player in the world' notion is pure conjecture. Seems like an excuse to hide his limitations. As much as i hate that pipsqueak, i still believe messi is better than r9. Sheva > r9 for me in CLUB football. Why should r9 be considered as the greatest when he himself doesnt have the motivation and the mental resolve to be that player.

What limitations? When Ronaldo put 100 percent, he was the best player in the world. Thats not conjecture, thats a fact. He just didn't put 100 percent every game for 90 minutes for whole his career the way Messi/CR7 do. Well, Messi not anymore.

 

[Senatore_M84]

argument because he tried less he was better is funniest thing I've eve heard.

Case and point made: I'll ride w/ CR7 r Messi over either brazilian for trust

 

[Senatore_M84]

discreditting cristiano or messi cause they worked their ass off.

omg


EOD CR7 and Messi have done more and for longer periods of time at high levels. Coulda, woulda, shoulda doesn't matter.

And this coming from someone who respects both ronaldo and ronaldinho at their peaks. But drive to keep going matters.

 

[Madridista]

Discrediting? lol where did you see any discrediting? They put a lot of effort to be where they are, good for them. Ronaldo put in much less and he did it all the same

 

[Senatore_M84]

Discrediting? lol where did you see any discrediting? They put a lot of effort to be where they are, good for them. Ronaldo put in much less and he did it all the same

1. You will make worlds worst parent with this logic

2. How did he do the same? I don't see him scoring near the amounts they did. Champions league performances they have for a freaking near decade. League performances messi and cr7 did for a near decade. It's cool 'on his day' ronaldo could be better. It's way more important how often 'that day is'. On his day pirlo completely outperformed zidane in the world cup finals. Is he the better player?

I know luiz ronaldo specifically had a lot of circumstances related to injury. And that sucks. But it's also reality. Proper training can keep you healthy. Or less likely to get hurt. Sometimes even that doesn't do it. Injuries happen. Longevity is a talent tho. Having desire to work your ass off and keep your body as right as you physically and mentally can.

 

[Madridista]

1. You will make worlds worst parent with this logic

2. How did he do the same? I don't see him scoring near the amounts they did. Champions league performances they have for a freaking near decade. League performances messi and cr7 did for a near decade. It's cool 'on his day' ronaldo could be better. It's way more important how often 'that day is'. On his day pirlo completely outperformed zidane in the world cup finals. Is he the better player?

I know luiz ronaldo specifically had a lot of circumstances related to injury. And that sucks. But it's also reality. Proper training can keep you healthy. Or less likely to get hurt. Sometimes even that doesn't do it. Injuries happen. Longevity is a talent tho. Having desire to work your ass off and keep your body as right as you physically and mentally can.

'that day is' when Ronaldo wanted it to be. the Pirlo vs. Zidane example is complete garbage of logic because its pointless to compare a direct head to head matchup between two players playing in a different roles with different teams.

Anyway. you value longetivity more. I value absolute peak. each to his own values. peace out, and thanks for the parenting advice

 

[Senatore_M84]

'that day is' when Ronaldo wanted it to be. the Pirlo vs. Zidane example is complete garbage of logic because its pointless to compare a direct head to head matchup between two players playing in a different roles with different teams.

Anyway. you value longetivity more. I value absolute peak. each to his own values. peace out, and thanks for the parenting advice

and again, i'm saying... absolute peak it's not clear cut. So w/ longevity and all other factors it's a no brainer.

It's cool ronaldo had a few world class games. Messi and CR7 have had those too

Problem if you continue to compare some amazing ronaldo performance w/ a random mediocre one by CR7 or MEssi. That is what you call a STRAW MAN argument. Your specialty ;

 

[Wild]

argument because he tried less he was better is funniest thing I've eve heard.

Amazing theory
It complement the theory that defenders back then were all Maldini's while today they are all Bonera's.
They cant know that a defensive plan like Chelsea's Mou/Hiddink or Inter's Mou or Atletico's Simeone is far more defensively superior than any defense Maldini & Nesta could offer.

\\On his day pirlo completely outperformed zidane in the world cup finals.

Hmmmmm , when was that exactly ?
Zidane was the best player in that final till the moment he was sent off.
You could have the feeling France is gonna score anytime now till that moment.

 

[leaf]

discreditting cristiano or messi cause they worked their ass off.

omg


EOD CR7 and Messi have done more and for longer periods of time at high levels. Coulda, woulda, shoulda doesn't matter.

And this coming from someone who respects both ronaldo and ronaldinho at their peaks. But drive to keep going matters.

Nonsense. There's a reason that Messi is CONSTANTLY compared with Maradonna....the same Maradonna who was wildly inconsistent. The same Maradonna who let himself go a la R9/10


As I said earlier, to me (and I concede that it's my opinion but it's a strong opinion i hold) greatness is defined by what you did and at what level you did it. Maradonna tore up the entire England team....Messi tore up Zaragoza. After tearing up basically the World, Maradonna could let himself go and do whatever the fuck he wanted...and retired a LEGEND......

Messi and CR7 still bust their ass to score their hattricks vs the Almeria's and Levante's of this world and it's these games that give them their statistical notoriety. Do you honestly think a post World Cup Maradonna or Ronaldo gave a fuck about busting his ass to get another goal in a won match vs some shit team in their league? So the motivation and effort cannot and shouldn't be discounted. To neglect it's role would be foolish.

The thing is, there's a whole lot more small/shit sides to play and it's all well and good that they're very consistent against these.....doesn't mean that they're better than the legends of old. Actually this situation is a microcosm of Ibrahimovic's problem. He's AMAZING vs the lesser teams but often struggles vs the bigger ones/on the bigger stages. The only difference is that Messi and CR7 are better at facing the big teams.

Again....Ibra's career is actually going to end up with him being more consistent than Ronaldo....does that mean he was better?

1. You will make worlds worst parent with this logic

2. How did he do the same? I don't see him scoring near the amounts they did. Champions league performances they have for a freaking near decade. League performances messi and cr7 did for a near decade. It's cool 'on his day' ronaldo could be better. It's way more important how often 'that day is'. On his day pirlo completely outperformed zidane in the world cup finals. Is he the better player?

I know luiz ronaldo specifically had a lot of circumstances related to injury. And that sucks. But it's also reality. Proper training can keep you healthy. Or less likely to get hurt. Sometimes even that doesn't do it. Injuries happen. Longevity is a talent tho. Having desire to work your ass off and keep your body as right as you physically and mentally can.

"Longevity is a talent"?
Are you kidding me?

Some players are simply built for longevity and some aren't. That's all there is to it. Nesta and Maldini were both consummate professionals. But Maldini's body held out at the top (or thereabouts) longer than Nesta. Does it mean Nesta didn't train right or take care of himself? No it doesn't. That fuckin Van Basten...couldn't make it to his 30's and so on.

Granted, there are always things that one can do to prolong his career at the top level but genetics plays a major major role.
End of discussion.


Ronaldo doesn't have a ton of CL goals because he didn't play a ton of CL games. It's really that simple. His scoring averages are great in any competition for any team in any league. I thought this was but I guess I was wrong.

It's also sad that the Messi/CR supporters for GOAT don't get how incredibly inflated their stats are. I mean, they are all fantastic /generational talents....but these guys have such a massive support net ....it's ridiculous!

Messi
-plays where he wants when he wants
-takes Barca's penalties
-has been playing with world class players since he was a child
-has been developed (and drugged) by Barcelona since age 12/13
-Augmented by almost an entire team of all-stars for his whole career
-faces shitty defenses for the majority of his games

CR7
-plays where he wants when he wants
-has an assist slave in Benzema, who does all the dirty work
-takes all penalties AND free kicks
-keeps getting world class midfielders and fellow wingers supporting him
-Also augmented by an entire team of all-stars for his Madrid career
-faces the same shit defenses that Messi does.

when you take this and add this to the ungodly advantages Barca AND Real get from their revenuse to the ridiculous amount of penalties they get is it really that far-fetched to at least consider that all these record breaking statistics may not be solely down to the players' greatness?

 

[Congo Powers]

good fun

 

[Sven]

No fan of either Messi or CR7. But they're already the best players since Maradona at least.

Credit where credit is due

 

[Congo Powers]

... And that's obvious

 

[Sven]

2008-onwards will be rememered, 30 year from now, as Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo era. Their deeds and "rivalry" will kind of obscure even Pep's historic Barcelona (and even that Madrid if they turn multi-champions).

 

[Wet Ones]

Why is Hugo Sanchez not the greatest player eva?

Or even Zarra?

Hey 15+ yrs longevity/consistency.

I guess coz no UCL? Damn it...

Hey in that case Di Stefano is for sure GOAT? If not, why not?

I'm confused...

 

[manutd fan]

Why do people always overestimate previous generations when comparing them to the current? Or perhaps it's vice versa...

 

[Nestafan]

Why do people always overestimate previous generations when comparing them to the current? Or perhaps it's vice versa...

Only remember what they did well, and forget when did poorly on the pitch.
Current players ingrain both.

 

[leaf]

Why is Hugo Sanchez not the greatest player eva?

Or even Zarra?

Hey 15+ yrs longevity/consistency.

I guess coz no UCL? Damn it...

Hey in that case Di Stefano is for sure GOAT? If not, why not?

I'm confused...

Alfredo won 5 CL's ....how much did midget boy win?
He also won more CL's than Pele, R9, iBra and Maradonna combined

Logically, #2 GOAT =

 

[Wild]

I tend to lean toward the current generation simply because the game has become much more difficult.
In the old days a superior individual could literally carry his team simply because tactics werent as important as today.
I mean check defenders allowing Pele & co taking a walk 2/3 of the field without any kind of a pressure.
I say it again , an Atletico team would have beaten Brazil golden team of Pele easily , playing 4-2-4 , yeah right.
There is also the number of games & the physical effort that players endure , it is harder than before & that explain the numbers of injury that increased.

In a way , a player like Messi or CR7 playing in the old days could have carried their team ala Maradona.
On the other hand , bring Maradona to play in current times then for sure could , if he was committed enough , do what Messi & CR7 do but for sure he wont be able to carry a team on his own.

 

[leaf]

I tend to lean toward the current generation simply because the game has become much more difficult.
In the old days a superior individual could literally carry his team simply because tactics werent as important as today.
I mean check defenders allowing Pele & co taking a walk 2/3 of the field without any kind of a pressure.
I say it again , an Atletico team would have beaten Brazil golden team of Pele easily , playing 4-2-4 , yeah right.
There is also the number of games & the physical effort that players endure , it is harder than before & that explain the numbers of injury that increased.

Very true but don't forget that referees protect attacking players much more today.

Also they have cracked down on certain types of fouls today that would have been waived play on in times gone by. The balls suit attacking players more and more each time a new one comes out.

The game itself is more geared to the attacker/goal scoring imho

 

[Ramzee]

Messi and CR are both more consistent I guess we have to take into account injuries that troubled R9 career. But R9 will never be outperformed on the greatest level of football - World Cup. R9 was sensational, whole world loved watching R9 and with Messi and CR you have this gay bandwagoners fights all the time who is better. This era is annoying I hate this media war who will win Ballon d'Or, all the time only two players are on the topic and the annoying fighting debates from immature fans... Messi getting booed at Wembley yesterday, imagine he could probably be the best player ever and getting booed only because media created rivaly between him and CR so you pick a side and run your mouth. I remember R9 entering pitch on World Cup match and even rivals admiring him, that Nesta comment on R9 Football was beautiful back then

 

[Wild]

Messi and CR are both more consistent I guess we have to take into account injuries that troubled R9 career. But R9 will never be outperformed on the greatest level of football - World Cup. R9 was sensational, whole world loved watching R9 and with Messi and CR you have this gay bandwagoners fights all the time who is better. This era is annoying I hate this media war who will win Ballon d'Or, all the time only two players are on the topic and the annoying fighting debates from immature fans... Messi getting booed at Wembley yesterday, imagine he could probably be the best player ever and getting booed only because media created rivaly between him and CR so you pick a side and run your mouth. I remember R9 entering pitch on World Cup match and even rivals admiring him, that Nesta comment on R9 Football was beautiful back then

You are not wrong at all.
R9 at his pick is probably superior to any player you can think about.
But it is not true that this should for sure mean Messi & CR arent as great as he was.
People ditch constancy in favor of pick point but Messi & CR arent averaging 6-7/10 , they are going 8/10 for the last 7-8 years.

 

[Rickaka]

I tend to lean toward the current generation simply because the game has become much more difficult.
In the old days a superior individual could literally carry his team simply because tactics werent as important as today.
I mean check defenders allowing Pele & co taking a walk 2/3 of the field without any kind of a pressure.
I say it again , an Atletico team would have beaten Brazil golden team of Pele easily , playing 4-2-4 , yeah right.
There is also the number of games & the physical effort that players endure , it is harder than before & that explain the numbers of injury that increased.

Ask any player from the old days, they all say football is played in a much higher tempo now. I've heard a lot of ex-footballers who were considered good to great in their days, that they wouldn't be able to cope with today's tempo in football. Watch a high calibre game from 30-40 years back, compared to nowadays game, it looks like they're playing at walking speed.

If the game has changed in tempo from the last 10-15 years, it's harder to say than over a period of 30-40 years but i'm inclined to say yes. Talented ball players like say Isco/Sneijder etc, can't rely on talent only and disregard the dirty work nowadays, cause it will be punished. The trend is that football is getting faster, and getting harder for lazy 'magicians'. Whether you like that/think it's better football is up to you.

Ofcourse there is conjuncture of great/less great defenders, but it doesn't countervail the evolvement of football itself. Maybe because football is played in such a high tempo, it's harder for defenses to keep that image of WC defender going. I mean from Thiago Silva to Kompany, all of them have been schooled at least once, for me that's more (read; more, not all of it) down to the attacking prowess of the opposition than the inability of the defense.

In 10-20 years, football is going to have a lot of super-athletes a lá Yaya Toure and less lazy ball magicians like Dinho. When you look at this development in football, for me it makes Messi (with a not so impressive physique) as a player that much more impressive.

 

[Wild]

Ask any player from the old days, they all say football is played in a much higher tempo now. I've heard a lot of ex-footballers who were considered good to great in their days, that they wouldn't be able to cope with today's tempo in football. Watch a high calibre game from 30-40 years back, compared to nowadays game, it looks like they're playing at walking speed.

If the game has changed in tempo from the last 10-15 years, it's harder to say than over a period of 30-40 years but i'm inclined to say yes. Talented ball players like say Isco/Sneijder etc, can't rely on talent only and disregard the dirty work nowadays, cause it will be punished. The trend is that football is getting faster, and getting harder for lazy 'magicians'. Whether you like that/think it's better football is up to you.

Ofcourse there is conjuncture of great/less great defenders, but it doesn't countervail the evolvement of football itself. Maybe because football is played in such a high tempo, it's harder for defenses to keep that image of WC defender going. I mean from Thiago Silva to Kompany, all of them have been schooled at least once, for me that's more (read; more, not all of it) down to the attacking prowess of the opposition than the inability of the defense.

In 10-20 years, football is going to have a lot of super-athletes a lá Yaya Toure and less lazy ball magicians like Dinho. When you look at this development in football, for me it makes Messi (with a not so impressive physique) as a player that much more impressive.

Exactly ....
Also credit should go to CR who is taking pace & physicality to another level in a world of pacy and physical football.

I could be mistaken on the number of games that Maradona was asked to play back then.
But do you imagine him playing 60+ games/year ?
Would he be able to endure & produce the beauty he was able to do in the past.
Now take a beast like CR & ask him to give you 30+ games / season rather than 60 that he is doing nowadays , it will be a massacre.

 

[bacon d'or]

interesting interesting