The Rumour Commode XLI: Ragnarok

[Pingu]

Has this forum ever been any more "gay" than today????

View attachment 18801

If it takes some rnb renacting of Brokeback Mountain to beat Inter today... by all means.

 

[Samaldinho]

This I'll never get. I used to say if Adli was the next incoming of Zidane he'd play and not be benched all the time, Pioli is not stubborn after all. That aged horribly.

Not that I expected Adli to be the solution to all our midfield problems in his first season. As you said, growing pains, a couple of bad games here and there, those kind of things were to be expected. But giving him only 140 minutes in an entire season and calling it a day (after seeing some magnificent games in pre-season) is absurd, especially with CDK getting so much more minutes with mostly not only terrible but even damaging impacts. If MM failed the mercato it also has to be said that Pioli made everything to see it bottled too. We're a handful of games from the end of the season and most transfers failed mostly because Pioli refused to grow them properly into the team with the exception of that one player who IMO was heavily overprized and overhyped to begin with anyway (I think we both had that stance and criticized MMM in the moment of the transfer iirc)...

Well, even if he'd suddenly decide to play Adli now he'd probably be way too rusty to show his worth. But at least he'd show more grinta than CDK for sure...

Considering how little Pioli has used our summer transfers, and that they have shown they can contribute when they finally get to play, I find the blame of the transfer market (and MMM) to be wrong. Pioli has consistently gotten it wrong, and we're not talking about big games, we're talking about games any manager of Milan should be winning.

If someone wanted to say: "oh, well, the summer transfer market wasn't enough to challenge for the pace set by Napoli" then yes, that's true. We are 16 points worse off than we were last year at the same point (61 to 77) which is a huge drop-off. But even if we had our Scudetto pace we'd still be 6 points back of Napoli--though if you factored in the amount of points stolen...

I would understand the criticism of MMM if we were relying heavily on Adli, Thiaw, Vranckx, and Pobega and they were all terrible. But... that's not been the case.

Let's say we were at this place, but we were relying on our new young players, and they were showing the expected inconsistency of young players--like Leao, Tonali, etc did. You'd see the flashes and you'd say "okay, this is a growing year, but... I can see the future." Again, that's not the case, he hasn't used them, and he just started using the tactics from last year, but even then, he still wants a 424... when it has consistently failed.

Pioli has consistently gotten his tactics wrong, has consistently simplified and stagnated our attack, has consistently been stubborn and arrogant when he has had little reason to do so, and has treated his new players inconsistently and handled them poorly.

Origi has looked like an utter failure, no doubt--and while CDK has been a massive disappointment--I cannot help but think that forcing him in an AM spot where he looks decidedly uncomfortable seems like a very weird thing for Pioli to essentially try to force through. I think the way Klopp uses Gakpo is the template for CDK, to be honest, and I'm not even the biggest fan of the kid.

But no transfer market is going to be perfect, and even having all the shiny tools that fans get obsessed with is clearly no substitute for tactics and planning--look at Chelsea. Chelsea is literally what would happen if football fans took over a team with crazy money, they are a shambles.

But even with this squad, I don't think there's a reason why Milan should be in this spot. I think Ibra's play as a striker has been underplayed in our rise, and his absence from playing has hurt us, and the failure of Origi has been compounded with the regression of Rebic and the exhaustion of Giroud. Our attack is the biggest problem, and Pioli has literally regressed our play to "let's hope someone can dribble and make something happen."

I'm truly at a loss for what Pioli has done.

 

[Tantalis]

Has this forum ever been any more #alphastallion than today????

View attachment 18801

 

[Deep Fried Pizza & Chips]

If it takes some rnb renacting of Brokeback Mountain to beat Inter today... by all means.

Can I suggest some folk for the sacrifice?

Like I'm all for the win but I'm not doing that... I'm happy to throw some folk under the "getting bumped" bus!



@Neruda2.0 @voom you guys are up... Bring your beads boys xxx

 

[Ryo]

If the pressing is done right, sure.
But if the players don't have the quality, it'll be an even bigger disaster.

 

[Caladan]

Can I suggest some folk for the sacrifice?

Like I'm all for the win but I'm not doing that... I'm happy to throw some folk under the "getting bumped" bus!

View attachment 18802

@Neruda2.0 @voom you guys are up... Bring your beads xxx

Is this Policy Academy film.?

 

[Deep Fried Pizza & Chips]

Is this Policy Academy film.?

Y'huh

 

[Tantalis]

 

[sheva]

If the pressing is done right, sure.
But if the players don't have the quality, it'll be an even bigger disaster.

someone should inform oldie we already tried that in the 1st leg

 

[Samaldinho]

If Pioli didn't have his January-panic of the 343 but instead went against Spurs with his 424, we would have lost to Spurs, and the game would have looked somewhat similar to the way it did against Inter--maybe not as bad, as having Leao fundamentally changes the way a team lines up against you, etc, but still... Pioli resisted the idea of falling into Conte's trap, but for some reason... against Inter, he did the exact opposite. I don't fucking get it.

The game-plan to beat Inter and Inzaghi was laid out against Spurs--which he only went to out-of-desperation, not out of some smart tactical tweak.

Against teams like Napoli, who play 433 and straight-up attack, we can tear them to shreds.

Pioli is struggling to match a 352 because he still is wedded to the idea of a SS in his 4231 (424) against a 352, and not only does he leave his midfield exposed, but none of our attackers know how to pass, which means that they dribble to create, force the issue, and try to use counter-pressing to create opportunities. Well, he's exhausted most of his players since he relies on the same 13 players, but expects them to play an up-tempo style to win games without an attacking strategy... Tonali exceeded his total minutes from the entirety of last season several games ago, it's insane.

It is not about Kessie, nor do I think we lost to Inter because we didn't want to play physical--I think the team tried hard, but the plan was so bad, that it doesn't matter how hard you try, if your tactics are off, it's not going to be about desire. Inter was baiting us into pressing them and then they hit us on the break, or when we attacked, they would hit us during transitions. The exact sort of shit that Conte and Spurs wanted to do--and Pioli fucking fell for it. This wasn't a new wrinkle in Inter's setup, this is... what they do, they've always done.

After we conceded the first goal, a bad early goal to concede on a set-piece, Pioli didn't tell his team to relax, calm down, keep it tight, be patient. No, the team acted like if they didn't attack and score to respond immediately, that they would be automatically lose--this opened them up and Inter scored a second, and then they got even more desperate, which was made worse because the tactical setup was not there to play Inter. When teams don't have to worry about the one-two punch of Leao and Theo, the games look very different, yes, but Jesus Christ Pioli--what were you thinking?

How many times have Real been outplayed by their opponents in the first half of games? Or for 90% of games? But they keep it tight, if they concede first, they don't freak out and make themselves even more vulnerable. No, they ride out the pressure, don't panic, and wait for their moment.

Milan did this against Spurs. Milan has done this before. Pioli has done this before. But Pioli has consistently done the wrong shit. The only time in 2023 that I saw Pioli show the tactical know-how that won me over from 21/22 was against Napoli. That's it. All three games? Wonderful job from Pioli. Truly.

Against Spurs? I would have put that in a similar category, but... I look back and think... this guy just accidentally got his tactics right out-of-fear, at least that is what it looks like. And the biggest reason I think that is... you didn't have Leao against Inter and you fucking... you didn't learn you fucking lesson?

You guys can talk about transfers until the end of times, but the tactical mistakes and simplification of our attacking patterns of play (they aren't even patterns, they're just "hey Brahim Leao, dribble!") cannot mask the fact that Pioli has ideas that don't work, because he's stuck to a 424 in the face of blowouts and has looked at tactics that have worked and refused to reuse them, without reason.

Pioli has either shown that he can't handle a club the size of Milan when there is actual pressure and expectations, or that what has worked during his tenure at Milan has went against his ultimate ideas (the 424) and that his fundamental desire for a 424 is the larger problem, because he clearly doesn't have the players for it, and so why not adjust? He has refused to admit defeat, and worse yet, he's being arrogant not about some intricate style like Zeman, no, he wants to play bully ball with players he's run into the ground.

Napoli are a much better team than Inter, but Pioli used tactics to blow them away. 6-1 over three games is no fluke. Tactics could have let a weakened Milan team grind out a 0-0 or a 1-0 loss, that would've been fine, but Pioli played Inter like he had some point to prove. Why? Everyone moaned about Milan-Spurs being boring. Who gives a shit? This is a semi-final. You're not Sacchi, you haven't implemented some revolutionary style that will echo for generations... you're here to win and you don't even have your best attacking player, what the fuck are you doing?

Cry about transfers all you want, go ahead, but when you have a coach who refuses to use the tools you give him properly or worse yet, doesn't have a fucking plan, it doesn't matter how many players you have, look at Chelsea.

Pioli has to bear the brunt of the blame here, and the only reason I'd hesitate in firing him is because of how strong his relationship is with these players, who are still really young--but I think Pioli has shown that he's not Steve Kerr, he's Mark Jackson, and that's unfortunate.

 

[Neruda2.0]

Jackson Si !!!

 

[Tantalis]

rip one line sam, we hardly knew ya

 

[Rossonero81]

Has this forum ever been any more "gay" than today????

View attachment 18801

This forum was pretty gay from time to time, but you have taken it to another level.

 

[Caladan]

If Pioli didn't have his January-panic of the 343 but instead went against Spurs with his 424, we would have lost to Spurs, and the game would have looked somewhat similar to the way it did against Inter--maybe not as bad, as having Leao fundamentally changes the way a team lines up against you, etc, but still... Pioli resisted the idea of falling into Conte's trap, but for some reason... against Inter, he did the exact opposite. I don't fucking get it.

The game-plan to beat Inter and Inzaghi was laid out against Spurs--which he only went to out-of-desperation, not out of some smart tactical tweak.

Against teams like Napoli, who play 433 and straight-up attack, we can tear them to shreds.

Pioli is struggling to match a 352 because he still is wedded to the idea of a SS in his 4231 (424) against a 352, and not only does he leave his midfield exposed, but none of our attackers know how to pass, which means that they dribble to create, force the issue, and try to use counter-pressing to create opportunities. Well, he's exhausted most of his players since he relies on the same 13 players, but expects them to play an up-tempo style to win games without an attacking strategy... Tonali exceeded his total minutes from the entirety of last season several games ago, it's insane.

It is not about Kessie, nor do I think we lost to Inter because we didn't want to play physical--I think the team tried hard, but the plan was so bad, that it doesn't matter how hard you try, if your tactics are off, it's not going to be about desire. Inter was baiting us into pressing them and then they hit us on the break, or when we attacked, they would hit us during transitions. The exact sort of shit that Conte and Spurs wanted to do--and Pioli fucking fell for it. This wasn't a new wrinkle in Inter's setup, this is... what they do, they've always done.

After we conceded the first goal, a bad early goal to concede on a set-piece, Pioli didn't tell his team to relax, calm down, keep it tight, be patient. No, the team acted like if they didn't attack and score to respond immediately, that they would be automatically lose--this opened them up and Inter scored a second, and then they got even more desperate, which was made worse because the tactical setup was not there to play Inter. When teams don't have to worry about the one-two punch of Leao and Theo, the games look very different, yes, but Jesus Christ Pioli--what were you thinking?

How many times have Real been outplayed by their opponents in the first half of games? Or for 90% of games? But they keep it tight, if they concede first, they don't freak out and make themselves even more vulnerable. No, they ride out the pressure, don't panic, and wait for their moment.

Milan did this against Spurs. Milan has done this before. Pioli has done this before. But Pioli has consistently done the wrong shit. The only time in 2023 that I saw Pioli show the tactical know-how that won me over from 21/22 was against Napoli. That's it. All three games? Wonderful job from Pioli. Truly.

Against Spurs? I would have put that in a similar category, but... I look back and think... this guy just accidentally got his tactics right out-of-fear, at least that is what it looks like. And the biggest reason I think that is... you didn't have Leao against Inter and you fucking... you didn't learn you fucking lesson?

You guys can talk about transfers until the end of times, but the tactical mistakes and simplification of our attacking patterns of play (they aren't even patterns, they're just "hey Brahim Leao, dribble!") cannot mask the fact that Pioli has ideas that don't work, because he's stuck to a 424 in the face of blowouts and has looked at tactics that have worked and refused to reuse them, without reason.

Pioli has either shown that he can't handle a club the size of Milan when there is actual pressure and expectations, or that what has worked during his tenure at Milan has went against his ultimate ideas (the 424) and that his fundamental desire for a 424 is the larger problem, because he clearly doesn't have the players for it, and so why not adjust? He has refused to admit defeat, and worse yet, he's being arrogant not about some intricate style like Zeman, no, he wants to play bully ball with players he's run into the ground.

Napoli are a much better team than Inter, but Pioli used tactics to blow them away. 6-1 over three games is no fluke. Tactics could have let a weakened Milan team grind out a 0-0 or a 1-0 loss, that would've been fine, but Pioli played Inter like he had some point to prove. Why? Everyone moaned about Milan-Spurs being boring. Who gives a shit? This is a semi-final. You're not Sacchi, you haven't implemented some revolutionary style that will echo for generations... you're here to win and you don't even have your best attacking player, what the fuck are you doing?

Cry about transfers all you want, go ahead, but when you have a coach who refuses to use the tools you give him properly or worse yet, doesn't have a fucking plan, it doesn't matter how many players you have, look at Chelsea.

Pioli has to bear the brunt of the blame here, and the only reason I'd hesitate in firing him is because of how strong his relationship is with these players, who are still really young--but I think Pioli has shown that he's not Steve Kerr, he's Mark Jackson, and that's unfortunate.

Kids from 90's will understands

 

[theduck7]

This can’t possibly be the end of the road tonight for this journey, I was daydreaming of the final and lifting the trophy for weeks-make it happen boys!!

 

[Samaldinho]

rip one line sam, we hardly knew ya

Essay Sam to One Line Sam:

 

[Samaldinho]

It seems that Inter having more fans than Milan in Italy (Milano?) is now... officially a myth.

Chi ha più tifosi tra Milan e Inter? Ricerca di StageUp: vince il Diavolo

Chi ha più tifosi tra Milan e Inter? L'edizione odierna della Gazzetta dello Sport riporta questa mattina i risultati di un'indagine di StageUp che risponde a questa domanda: oggi i milanisti (secondo stima sono 4.

www.milannews.it

 

[Kojak]

Primavera to Serie A is huge step. Nasti was the best player, last year in Milan Primavera and now he has 4 goals in Serie B. Chaka Is doing less than Nasti did last year. If you send Messias to play in Primavera he will have at least 20 goals for the season. Simic looked good but recently he hasn't even been starting games in Primavera.

MIlan Primavera is currently in the bottom half of the table. If the players were that good,they would be in the top spots.

It doesn't work like that. After all, Kerkez was a rotational player in the Primavera but has just completed a full season in the Dutch league and is now linked to a host of EPL sides in addition to Dortmund & Atletico. The same goes for Djalo who didn't really get much playing time in the Primavera but was explicitly requested as part of the Leao deal by Luis Campos and has now played 4 seasons in Ligue 1 and has a deal in place with Inter. Therefore, you can't just generalise the entire Primavera and have to consider each player on an individual basis (for the record I NEVER rated Nasti and said that he may/may not work out).

Having said that, I personally believe that not only are Simic, Eletu, Alesi & Chaka the MOST talented players in the Primavera (we also made significant investments in all 4 players which corroborates my opinion), I believe that they are currently better than the likes of Gabbia (who I NEVER rated), Pobega, Baka and Messias. Therefore, I wouldn't mind selling the aforementioned players and getting rid of Baka's enormous wages and replacing them with the youngsters listed above. Ditto for Colombo who is more than capable of filling in as third striker and would actually be able to make a contribution unlike Ibra who's only managed 114 mins all season.

As for the Primavera's performance in the league, somebody knowledgeable who I follow explained that we have the youngest squad in the league who are at least 1-2 years younger than their rivals which can make all the difference at this level on a physical basis. Therefore, I wouldn't read too much into it.

 

[Rossonero10]

do you not wipe?

May be an unpopular opinion, but I believe we should be washing. (Bidet)

I personally use tp, tried the whole wet wipes thing, but it’s just not the same.

Think it’s time we start asking the real questions here on RnB

 

[Tantalis]

May be an unpopular opinion, but I believe we should be washing. (Bidet)

I personally use tp, tried the whole wet wipes thing, but it’s just not the same.

Think it’s time we start asking the real questions here on RnB

one day i too will own a japanese toilet

 

[Ryo]

May be an unpopular opinion, but I believe we should be washing. (Bidet)

I personally use tp, tried the whole wet wipes thing, but it’s just not the same.

Think it’s time we start asking the real questions here on RnB

Only works if your country has clean enough toilet water.
Wouldn't want to be spraying your arse with muddy gunk would ya?

 

[Deep Fried Pizza & Chips]

one day i too will own a japanese toilet

With a Japanese maid.... Or maybe just a Japanese lady in a maids dress...

"She was polishing it and, it just kinda went off..."

 

[Rossonero10]

Was 90% sure this quote was going to go:

“What would yo do if you were on the Milan bench? I’ll tell you right away. I would bet everythi…”

And my head filled in the gap as “Everything on Inter”

But hey, I guess pressing works too? Forza Milan

 

[Kojak]

I think we have some real talent in our primavera, and some actual jewels especially in the more junior categories, but... Thiaw barely gets out on the pitch, while Vranckx is a u21 captain for his nation, and of course there's Adli, one of the most creative young players in Europe last year--neither of whom get playing time.

Cuenca looks like a legit talent, Chaka has a confidence to him that I really like.

Yeah the bottleneck is Pioli who refuses to give our youngsters decent playing time yet has already been proven wrong on both Kerkez + Thiaw (and Adli for those who have eyes that work). Therefore, unless he starts integrating youngsters from the Primavera and the likes of Vranckx + Adli instead of relying on fodder veterans like Krunic + Messias, M&M need to consider whether he's really the right guy to spearhead our youth project.

Re Cuenca, tbh I'm not completely sold on him just yet but Chaka looks like a legit talent from both a technical + physical perspective. In fact, i'd be in favour of getting shot of both Salad + Messias this summer and signing a PROPER RW with Chaka as first backup.

 

[Tantalis]

With a Japanese maid.... Or maybe just a Japanese lady in a maids dress...

"She was polishing it and, it just kinda went off..."

french maid.

 

[Milan10]

Considering how little Pioli has used our summer transfers, and that they have shown they can contribute when they finally get to play, I find the blame of the transfer market (and MMM) to be wrong. Pioli has consistently gotten it wrong, and we're not talking about big games, we're talking about games any manager of Milan should be winning.

If someone wanted to say: "oh, well, the summer transfer market wasn't enough to challenge for the pace set by Napoli" then yes, that's true. We are 16 points worse off than we were last year at the same point (61 to 77) which is a huge drop-off. But even if we had our Scudetto pace we'd still be 6 points back of Napoli--though if you factored in the amount of points stolen...

I would understand the criticism of MMM if we were relying heavily on Adli, Thiaw, Vranckx, and Pobega and they were all terrible. But... that's not been the case.

Let's say we were at this place, but we were relying on our new young players, and they were showing the expected inconsistency of young players--like Leao, Tonali, etc did. You'd see the flashes and you'd say "okay, this is a growing year, but... I can see the future." Again, that's not the case, he hasn't used them, and he just started using the tactics from last year, but even then, he still wants a 424... when it has consistently failed.

Pioli has consistently gotten his tactics wrong, has consistently simplified and stagnated our attack, has consistently been stubborn and arrogant when he has had little reason to do so, and has treated his new players inconsistently and handled them poorly.

Origi has looked like an utter failure, no doubt--and while CDK has been a massive disappointment--I cannot help but think that forcing him in an AM spot where he looks decidedly uncomfortable seems like a very weird thing for Pioli to essentially try to force through. I think the way Klopp uses Gakpo is the template for CDK, to be honest, and I'm not even the biggest fan of the kid.

But no transfer market is going to be perfect, and even having all the shiny tools that fans get obsessed with is clearly no substitute for tactics and planning--look at Chelsea. Chelsea is literally what would happen if football fans took over a team with crazy money, they are a shambles.

But even with this squad, I don't think there's a reason why Milan should be in this spot. I think Ibra's play as a striker has been underplayed in our rise, and his absence from playing has hurt us, and the failure of Origi has been compounded with the regression of Rebic and the exhaustion of Giroud. Our attack is the biggest problem, and Pioli has literally regressed our play to "let's hope someone can dribble and make something happen."

I'm truly at a loss for what Pioli has done.

9 paragraphs. He’s warming up, boys!

 

[Alo88]

So based on usual Isma recovery, we won’t see his best again until 2024.

We need a new midfielder.

Two, actually. Terrible news. Bennacer adds so much quality and quantity that we are going to miss

 

[Ryo]

Two, actually. Terrible news. Bennacer adds so much quality and quantity that we are going to miss

Need a CDM and a CAM/Box-to-Box at the very least.

 

[papaberlu]

Messias rw you know

I want to waterboard this terrorist

 

[Pingu]

Messias rw you know

I want to waterboard this terrorist

CLmaekers supersub to win it.

*one can hope...