The Rumour Commode XLVII: Foamseca is out

Which coach should lead Milan at the Anno Zero 25/26 season?


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MW6

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A new coach has to find a way to get the best of Leao, should be job number one. Maybe change the tactics that now makes Rafa the focal, perhaps only, point of our attack. Give him 60 minutes a game, unless we're behind, and let him run like a thoroughbred. For his part a change in attitude and priorities are necessary, with calcio the only activity that truly matters. Don't know if it's possible at his age, but one can hope.
Please explain to me what ”the best of Leao” is? What do you expect him to turn into after watching him for 6 years?
Because to me, what he lacks you can’t teach. He may become a better finisher perhaps, but this is it probably it. He turns 26 in less then a month..
 

pippofan

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Andrea Longoni, (always unreliable), writes that RedBird and Elliott want to sell the club. Probably got it from the English paper article and instead of a probable minority share we sell the whole thing.

I have to believe that the current financial situation is hurting RedBird, a fund not nearly as big or influential as Elliott. Investors are losing tons of money on the market and calcio is not a huge moneymaker. Add to that the lack of sporting success which might result in losses in sponsorship and it's the worst possible time to sell or buy, unless you're filthy rich like the Saudis and Qataris.

I'm sure Gerry regrets his investment, probably encouraged by Elliott because he didn't know much about the sport or the suffocating and extremely slow bureaucracy in Italy. Redbird came out of nowhere when it seemed we were on the verge of being bought by Investicorp. It was too quick and Gerry didn't do enough research on Serie A, its history, traditions, impact of the fans, everything that made calcio different from American sports. You can't revolutionize the way to do things if you don't know the subject well enough.
 

pippofan

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Please explain to me what ”the best of Leao” is? What do you expect him to turn into after watching him for 6 years?
Because to me, what he lacks you can’t teach. He may become a better finisher perhaps, but this is it probably it. He turns 26 in less then a month..
He has raw talent but hasn't worked on his trade. You figure by now he would have practiced his shooting and be better at it, or his passing, his movements, but he has regressed since the scudetto season. Mine was a hope that he would change with getting older but would not bet on it. However as pitiful as we are he's still one of our better talents. Would not shed a tear if he's sold at 50 plus and I'm sure we can find a suitable replacement, not as flashy but more complete in all phases of the game.
 
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ymsv

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any player that's ambitious and is somewhat established is probably looking to leave because the next 4-5 years or so we're gonna be under gerry we're almost guaranteed to be ass and only play for coppas (yes i used the english plural for an italian word smd)
younger players that are still making a name for themselves get decent exposure so they'll stay but as soon as they get good expect them to look for a way out

massive respect for tij signing an extension with us in this state as he gives the club a strong starting position in negotiations or he's ridic loyal if he actually plans on staying for the whole duration

i think im in the higher tier of milan fans as i've been to some games, bought merch and waste my life on a forum etc, but if I were a player i would not fkin wanna be anywhere near the club in its current state. you cant have shit culture, messy management and shit results and expect to be considered an attractive employer
players have like 10 years of good football in them on average. wasting 4-5 on a club that's ran worse than the average street-fair booth is fkin risky for almost no reward other than an intangible "loyalty". albertini was so loyal he cried when he left and he left cause he felt he was too washed to stay and now some "fans" see him as a long haired nocerino. tryina get titles or money is infinitely more rewarding long term than proving you're loyal just so people can forget you existed after you retire
With Italiano we will be unstoppable .
 

IL-Capitano

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too many great players to list but if pushed all time favorite player: Maldini
Now I don't follow the news so closely, but isn't this twat awfully quiet? No "Zlatan will fix" bs... Am I right?

Remember when he got appointed? :lol:
Ah yes mr “Vision and Mission”
IMG_2318.jpeg
“Special Adviser” of the three stooges.
 

IL-Capitano

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too many great players to list but if pushed all time favorite player: Maldini
We need Special Advisor



And True Visionary


The current management team
kind GIF
 

rossonero1

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Grass ain't always greener on the other side.


Elliot sold Milan at 1.2B
Gerry ain't selling until he gets his money back and more.
Saudi's don't think we're worth that money.

We're now stuck with Gerry until the situation changes for the better.
Who knows if it will.

But he definitely won't be selling at a loss, that's for sure.

If the purchase of San Siro goes through maybe Red Bird can try to get 1.4 or 1.5B tops. It's not going to be the big return they probably hoped when they bought the club. At this point try to break even or come out a little ahead. The interest on what remains of the Elliott loan is going to hurt too.
 
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rossonero1

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Andrea Longoni, (always unreliable), writes that RedBird and Elliott want to sell the club. Probably got it from the English paper article and instead of a probable minority share we sell the whole thing.

I have to believe that the current financial situation is hurting RedBird, a fund not nearly as big or influential as Elliott. Investors are losing tons of money on the market and calcio is not a huge moneymaker. Add to that the lack of sporting success which might result in losses in sponsorship and it's the worst possible time to sell or buy, unless you're filthy rich like the Saudis and Qataris.

I'm sure Gerry regrets his investment, probably encouraged by Elliott because he didn't know much about the sport or the suffocating and extremely slow bureaucracy in Italy. Redbird came out of nowhere when it seemed we were on the verge of being bought by Investicorp. It was too quick and Gerry didn't do enough research on Serie A, its history, traditions, impact of the fans, everything that made calcio different from American sports. You can't revolutionize the way to do things if you don't know the subject well enough.
Investcorp said no thank you to Elliott's scheme of taking a loan from them so they can make more.
 

IL-Capitano

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If Leao had better decision making, work rate and all the important traits of great footballers, we would have had George Weah v2.0


A wonderful trip down memory lane thank you. Weah what a player he was.
 

Samaldinho

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I understand where you're coming from. You're making a point that I used to make when Pioli was still here. We need to play a more team-based system with Leao as a central part of it. I felt the same way until I realized that it wasn't possible with the current squad. I believe you're answering your own questions about why three different coaches haven't found success in creating an effective offensive system at Milan, and the answer is the player that you're claiming should be a part of the solution.
Leao was on this team, and was the MVP, when we won the Scudetto, and we played a "team game" style you pretend Leao prevents--and Pioli was the one who turned away from the style that won him the Scudetto, and turned towards a 424--a system doubled-down on by Fonseca and tripled-down on by Conceicao with Felix that led to this catastrophe of a season.

We have seen this team play without Leao, they don't suddenly play this mythical "team-based" style that is supposedly hindered by Leao's presence.

These coaches have stuck to a system that has failed for years. They don't even know how to construct this "team game" because none of them value passing or creating patterns-of-play.

Nothing prevented Pioli from returning to his previous 4231, in fact, he did this several times following the Scudetto, which led us to massive wins over Napoli, Juventus, but despite the obvious advantages of a true 4231, Pioli would insist on the unbalanced 424.

Fonseca shoved Pulisic central and started Chuk, Leao forced Conceicao to bring in Felix to go 424?

Theo has shown that he can play very well in a back-four, the problem for our left side has shown itself in the player we place on their side: before it was Kessie, Bennacer, Tonali, then Krunic, before we started playing Reijnders there the last two years. They've had less defensive cover whilst we demand they produce the bulk of our offensive threat--it's pretty clear what has changed.

What Portugal team are you watching? The one where everything they do has to cater towards CR7's ego? CR7 drifts to the wings to try and be the winger and the striker, disrupting play and whatever flow the team tries to create as they are held hostage to CR7's denial over his age. The team plays disjointed whether Leao is there or not. Plus, Martinez is widely hated by Portuguese fans for being a shitty manager.

Stats are deceptive? Your thesis is that we play less like a team with Leao but the stats bury that notion.

The stats are pretty clear: we score 19 more goals than we concede when Leao is on the pitch. I realize that your point has trouble handling the stark reality of these numbers, which means we can't talk about Leao's "nonchalance" while we then excuse Pulisic and Reijnder's poor performances with "oh, they're tired" which are excuses that we don't offer for other players--mind you, I actually believe they are tired (but wonder why other players don't get that excuse)--but you can look at our passing stats from year-to-year, you can look at our progressive passing stats, our shot-creating action stats, they all point to us being worse and worse because of our managers, but before getting to that:

Leao's +/- stats are better than Pulisic's, that's just a fact, and how about this? Let me use Pulisic's own words:
"The truth is that I’ve become accustomed to playing on the right, and I’ve been scoring goals thanks to a little secret: it’s called Rafael Leao. I’ve studied and understood how he moves. Usually, he attracts two or three opponents, so the defence is not so covered on the opposite side. Therefore, I can move towards the middle of the box and I am sure I will receive a perfectly-timed pass."​

There's Pulisic, describing the key to his success: he has more space and time because our opponents are concerned with shutting down Leao.

However, I don't think our problems are in Leao or Pulisic, the fact we don't have backups for them is concerning, but beyond that there's the larger picture:

Our team is in 8th place because our management has insisted on going towards sub-par coaches. It seems that our management has subscribed to the theory found in MLB that managers don't particularly matter, which is why Aaron Boone is the manager of the Yankees. They use an army of analytics professionals to make their choices, and this thinking has been extended to our squad.

This is not about missing the forest for the trees, because both the micro-level and macro-level stats clash with your thesis, and your examples, like old CR7-led Portugal, or the fact that Leao was the MVP of our team-based approach that won the Scudetto, neither square away with your argument that Leao is why we can't build an offensive scheme.

Look at the players Moncada has built for our midfield. They can't pass. Musah, RLC, Terra, Bondo--none of them can pass the ball. The only players who can pass are Reijnders and Fofana... kinda. We have one good passing midfielder, and somehow it's on Leao?

Compare Adli's passing stats at Fiorentina, playing as more of an 8 than a 6, his assists per 90 for Fiorentina are 0.38, for us (as a DM) it was 0.10--Fofana is 0.22 assists per 90, Musah's is 0.10, Reijnders? 0.09, not great, Barella 0.22 (for comparison's sake), like Fofana... but then we get to xAG, expected assisted goals, Adli's per 90 at Fiorentina is 0.19, with us last year it was 0.13, meanwhile Fofana's this year is 0.12, Musah's is... 0.10, Reijnders? 0.09, not great, and Barella's is 0.17.

It gets worse though:

Pick a metric, like Key Passes per90 (passes that directly lead to a shot) Adli has the best stats over everyone (including Barella) at 2.02, Fofana at 0.85, Musah at 1.37, and Reijnders at 1.30. Adli was at 1.54 last year with us. RLC last year was at 1.30.

Then passes into the final third, per90? This year for Fiorentina, Adli is at 6.45, Fofana at 5.18, Musah at 3.56, and Reijnders at 4.10--Adli with us, last year? 9.38, an insane number. Barella's is at 5.60. RLC last year? 2.14--and he was our CAM!

Passes into the penalty area, per 90? Adli is at 1.20 (1.13 last year with us), Fofana 0.74, Musah 0.98, Reijnders at 1.42. Barella is 1.90. RLC last year? 0.71, again, this was our CAM last year.

Progressive passes, per 90? Adli at 7.49, Fofana 6.36, Musah at 4.68, and Reijnders at 6.30. Barella? 7.66. Oh, and Adli, last year, with us? 8.05. RLC last year? 3.38.

Shot creating actions, per 90? Adli 4.20, Fofana 2.32, Musah 2.58, Reijnders 3.14--Barella? 3.96. Adli, last year was 3.80. RLC last year? 2.70.

I can go on and on, I can bring up Bondo with Monza, I can bring up Terra, I can bring up all the midfielders we've decided to rely upon and the stats are overwhelming: we are suffering because we can't pass the ball.

Look at goal-creating actions per 90: Adli 0.71, Fofana 0.22, Musah 0.19, Reijnders 0.26, Barella at 0.53--Adli was 0.41 last year, while last year RLC was 0.23--are you noticing a pattern here?

People don't like Adli, fine, don't like him, I don't give a shit. Sell him. Throw him down stairs. But we need to buy midfielders who can provide what we have lost, when you look at our midfielders and then you compare them to other midfielders (why I brought up Barella), our midfielders can't create, they can't pass, the point is that what you see is such a massive drop-off in passing ability in the players that we have recruited to build our current midfield.

Look at Bennacer (22/23) Tonali (22/23) [I purposefully did not pick Scudetto seasons for them] and Kessie (21/22) look at their stats (per 90):
Key Passes: 1.63, 2.01, and 1.06​
Passes into the final third: 5.56, 3.56, 4.04​
Shot Creating Actions: 3.65, 3.11, and 2.50​
Goal Creating Actions: 0.24, 0.38, and 0.14​

Look at ball recoveries per 90 between Adli, Bennacer, Tonali, RLC (23/24), Musah, and Reijnders:

5.36 (Adli), 8.72 (Ben), 5.62 (Tonali), 3.90 (RLC), 3.71 (Mus), 3.37 (Tij)--only Fofana (at 5.59) does any ball-recovery work at good level.​

Our current midfield recover fewer balls, they tackle less well, they pass worse--are these the results of Leao?

Our midfield unit has gotten worse--and perhaps we have just run Fofana and Reijnders into the ground (a belief I hold) because we couldn't afford to drop them even against a Serie B side in Sassuolo in the Coppa Italia, which is crazy. That's why relying on Musah, Bondo, RLC, and Terra over Adli was such a terrible idea--and again, it doesn't have to be Adli, but why Musah? Why Bondo? Why RLC? Why can't we bring someone else who can pass the ball?

The idea that Leao is what is holding us back when our midfield can't pass, can't create chances, can't create goals, I'm sorry, how are we supposed to have a "team game" when the players most responsible for supplying the ammunition to our attacker can't reliably provide service? They can't maintain possession? We have worse ball recovery stats now, so it's not like we have some super industrious midfield unit that sacrifices passing for steel--and even if they did do that (they don't) they don't have the ability to reliably get the ball to our players.

The stats are there. Our current management have a very clear and obvious profile of midfielder that they prefer, and now that we have an entire midfield unit built to their specifications, we have had our worst season in years. Our defenders have less cover, we have less possession, and our attackers have less support--to me, our problems are rooted in poor tactical shape, terrible midfield transfers, and sub-par coaching.
 

MW6

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He has raw talent but hasn't worked on his trade. You figure by now he would have practiced his shooting and be better at it, or his passing, his movements, but he has regressed since the scudetto season. Mine was a hope that he would change with getting older but would not bet on it. However as pitiful as we are he's still one of our better talents. Would not shade a tear if he's sold at 50 plus and I'm sure we can find a suitable replacement, not as flashy but more complete in all phases of the game.
Yeah, agree with a lot of this!
His skills has been there for a few years but his ”football-brain” is probably among the worst in serie A.
He also seems to lack the determination and inner drive to work on becoming a more complete player.. and I guess a sort of naivety regarding what it takes to be a truly elite player.
I just hope there’s a SD out there who thinks ”they can fix him” and overpays for him.

And he can surely thrive in complementary role somewhere in a new league where teams are worse at defending like La Liga or even a lot of teams in the PL.
 

Deep Fried Pizza & Chips

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Futuro getting relegated to Serie D. Just in case Red Bird needed to fail any harder.
So how much money have these clowns wasted on Futuro and San Donato?

Like it's getting seriously funny now...
 
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Deep Fried Pizza & Chips

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Leao was on this team, and was the MVP, when we won the Scudetto, and we played a "team game" style you pretend Leao prevents--and Pioli was the one who turned away from the style that won him the Scudetto, and turned towards a 424--a system doubled-down on by Fonseca and tripled-down on by Conceicao with Felix that led to this catastrophe of a season.

We have seen this team play without Leao, they don't suddenly play this mythical "team-based" style that is supposedly hindered by Leao's presence.

These coaches have stuck to a system that has failed for years. They don't even know how to construct this "team game" because none of them value passing or creating patterns-of-play.

Nothing prevented Pioli from returning to his previous 4231, in fact, he did this several times following the Scudetto, which led us to massive wins over Napoli, Juventus, but despite the obvious advantages of a true 4231, Pioli would insist on the unbalanced 424.

Fonseca shoved Pulisic central and started Chuk, Leao forced Conceicao to bring in Felix to go 424?

Theo has shown that he can play very well in a back-four, the problem for our left side has shown itself in the player we place on their side: before it was Kessie, Bennacer, Tonali, then Krunic, before we started playing Reijnders there the last two years. They've had less defensive cover whilst we demand they produce the bulk of our offensive threat--it's pretty clear what has changed.

What Portugal team are you watching? The one where everything they do has to cater towards CR7's ego? CR7 drifts to the wings to try and be the winger and the striker, disrupting play and whatever flow the team tries to create as they are held hostage to CR7's denial over his age. The team plays disjointed whether Leao is there or not. Plus, Martinez is widely hated by Portuguese fans for being a shitty manager.

Stats are deceptive? Your thesis is that we play less like a team with Leao but the stats bury that notion.

The stats are pretty clear: we score 19 more goals than we concede when Leao is on the pitch. I realize that your point has trouble handling the stark reality of these numbers, which means we can't talk about Leao's "nonchalance" while we then excuse Pulisic and Reijnder's poor performances with "oh, they're tired" which are excuses that we don't offer for other players--mind you, I actually believe they are tired (but wonder why other players don't get that excuse)--but you can look at our passing stats from year-to-year, you can look at our progressive passing stats, our shot-creating action stats, they all point to us being worse and worse because of our managers, but before getting to that:

Leao's +/- stats are better than Pulisic's, that's just a fact, and how about this? Let me use Pulisic's own words:
"The truth is that I’ve become accustomed to playing on the right, and I’ve been scoring goals thanks to a little secret: it’s called Rafael Leao. I’ve studied and understood how he moves. Usually, he attracts two or three opponents, so the defence is not so covered on the opposite side. Therefore, I can move towards the middle of the box and I am sure I will receive a perfectly-timed pass."​

There's Pulisic, describing the key to his success: he has more space and time because our opponents are concerned with shutting down Leao.

However, I don't think our problems are in Leao or Pulisic, the fact we don't have backups for them is concerning, but beyond that there's the larger picture:

Our team is in 8th place because our management has insisted on going towards sub-par coaches. It seems that our management has subscribed to the theory found in MLB that managers don't particularly matter, which is why Aaron Boone is the manager of the Yankees. They use an army of analytics professionals to make their choices, and this thinking has been extended to our squad.

This is not about missing the forest for the trees, because both the micro-level and macro-level stats clash with your thesis, and your examples, like old CR7-led Portugal, or the fact that Leao was the MVP of our team-based approach that won the Scudetto, neither square away with your argument that Leao is why we can't build an offensive scheme.

Look at the players Moncada has built for our midfield. They can't pass. Musah, RLC, Terra, Bondo--none of them can pass the ball. The only players who can pass are Reijnders and Fofana... kinda. We have one good passing midfielder, and somehow it's on Leao?

Compare Adli's passing stats at Fiorentina, playing as more of an 8 than a 6, his assists per 90 for Fiorentina are 0.38, for us (as a DM) it was 0.10--Fofana is 0.22 assists per 90, Musah's is 0.10, Reijnders? 0.09, not great, Barella 0.22 (for comparison's sake), like Fofana... but then we get to xAG, expected assisted goals, Adli's per 90 at Fiorentina is 0.19, with us last year it was 0.13, meanwhile Fofana's this year is 0.12, Musah's is... 0.10, Reijnders? 0.09, not great, and Barella's is 0.17.

It gets worse though:

Pick a metric, like Key Passes per90 (passes that directly lead to a shot) Adli has the best stats over everyone (including Barella) at 2.02, Fofana at 0.85, Musah at 1.37, and Reijnders at 1.30. Adli was at 1.54 last year with us. RLC last year was at 1.30.

Then passes into the final third, per90? This year for Fiorentina, Adli is at 6.45, Fofana at 5.18, Musah at 3.56, and Reijnders at 4.10--Adli with us, last year? 9.38, an insane number. Barella's is at 5.60. RLC last year? 2.14--and he was our CAM!

Passes into the penalty area, per 90? Adli is at 1.20 (1.13 last year with us), Fofana 0.74, Musah 0.98, Reijnders at 1.42. Barella is 1.90. RLC last year? 0.71, again, this was our CAM last year.

Progressive passes, per 90? Adli at 7.49, Fofana 6.36, Musah at 4.68, and Reijnders at 6.30. Barella? 7.66. Oh, and Adli, last year, with us? 8.05. RLC last year? 3.38.

Shot creating actions, per 90? Adli 4.20, Fofana 2.32, Musah 2.58, Reijnders 3.14--Barella? 3.96. Adli, last year was 3.80. RLC last year? 2.70.

I can go on and on, I can bring up Bondo with Monza, I can bring up Terra, I can bring up all the midfielders we've decided to rely upon and the stats are overwhelming: we are suffering because we can't pass the ball.

Look at goal-creating actions per 90: Adli 0.71, Fofana 0.22, Musah 0.19, Reijnders 0.26, Barella at 0.53--Adli was 0.41 last year, while last year RLC was 0.23--are you noticing a pattern here?

People don't like Adli, fine, don't like him, I don't give a shit. Sell him. Throw him down stairs. But we need to buy midfielders who can provide what we have lost, when you look at our midfielders and then you compare them to other midfielders (why I brought up Barella), our midfielders can't create, they can't pass, the point is that what you see is such a massive drop-off in passing ability in the players that we have recruited to build our current midfield.

Look at Bennacer (22/23) Tonali (22/23) [I purposefully did not pick Scudetto seasons for them] and Kessie (21/22) look at their stats (per 90):
Key Passes: 1.63, 2.01, and 1.06​
Passes into the final third: 5.56, 3.56, 4.04​
Shot Creating Actions: 3.65, 3.11, and 2.50​
Goal Creating Actions: 0.24, 0.38, and 0.14​

Look at ball recoveries per 90 between Adli, Bennacer, Tonali, RLC (23/24), Musah, and Reijnders:

5.36 (Adli), 8.72 (Ben), 5.62 (Tonali), 3.90 (RLC), 3.71 (Mus), 3.37 (Tij)--only Fofana (at 5.59) does any ball-recovery work at good level.​

Our current midfield recover fewer balls, they tackle less well, they pass worse--are these the results of Leao?

Our midfield unit has gotten worse--and perhaps we have just run Fofana and Reijnders into the ground (a belief I hold) because we couldn't afford to drop them even against a Serie B side in Sassuolo in the Coppa Italia, which is crazy. That's why relying on Musah, Bondo, RLC, and Terra over Adli was such a terrible idea--and again, it doesn't have to be Adli, but why Musah? Why Bondo? Why RLC? Why can't we bring someone else who can pass the ball?

The idea that Leao is what is holding us back when our midfield can't pass, can't create chances, can't create goals, I'm sorry, how are we supposed to have a "team game" when the players most responsible for supplying the ammunition to our attacker can't reliably provide service? They can't maintain possession? We have worse ball recovery stats now, so it's not like we have some super industrious midfield unit that sacrifices passing for steel--and even if they did do that (they don't) they don't have the ability to reliably get the ball to our players.

The stats are there. Our current management have a very clear and obvious profile of midfielder that they prefer, and now that we have an entire midfield unit built to their specifications, we have had our worst season in years. Our defenders have less cover, we have less possession, and our attackers have less support--to me, our problems are rooted in poor tactical shape, terrible midfield transfers, and sub-par coaching.
I fucking love it when you talk all dirty n stuff... And use big words.

Fuck it gets me wet every time bro.

Keep that shit up x

Oh and to be serious for a moment... Preach sister x
 

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