The Rumour Commode XXXIX: A Cardinal Sin

[Curupira]

They did pay like 20m for him and they just saw Enzo go for 120m after a good six months and world cup hype.

The fact they are going for him really makes the Kessie move even weirder.

If Kessie went to Chelsea, Man Utd, Bayern, or even Spurs, places where they could really maximize a player like him, I think we would be seeing him emerge as a truly top tier talent. Of all our free players, he made the worst career move of them all, by far.

Let's be honest.

Kessie played A LOT of minutes with us in his first couple of years, without rest. I remember someone pulling up some stats regarding Tieleman having ran more than Modric throughout his career already and he is 10 years younger - that's one thing to keep in mind with Kessie as well.

He thought he was going to a more "prestigious" club based on recent performance and that he wouldn't have to shoulder nearly as much for blame like he did during our Scudetto run. It kind of shows where he's at mentally and I am glad we parted ways.

I am going to go ahead and make the same comment about Leao.

 

[Samaldinho]

based on who's able to maintain more of continuity with the club, so far.

That's why I am not worried if we don't make CL, maldino will have his chance to right the course.

I don't want to see Maldini get 5th and 7th in successive seasons like Guintoli did with Napoli just to see what he can do with those sorts of set backs lol.

I'm totally cool with avoiding that thought experiment lol.

 

[Samaldinho]

Yes for Adli.

Again, now in hindsight it is an atrocious move.

But if you are to compare 2 players right now, who play similar position and one has played in France Ligue 1 60-70games in last 2 seasons while also making team of the year, While the other only played for river plate, what would you do?

we were interested in Enzo a year earlier then that, and signed Adli instead. This was a follow up of when we were looking at him again, but held out for a more experienced player in sanches and then got fucked all around

 

[Curupira]

I don't want to see Maldini get 5th and 7th in successive seasons like Guintoli did with Napoli just to see what he can do with those sorts of set backs lol.

I'm totally cool with avoiding that thought experiment lol.

And I wanted to avoid being in a scenario where our most valuable player is on his last year with us without renewing...

 

[Berlusconi]

It’s overboard for sure. They’ve made some mistakes, the new signings if they didn’t consult Pioli is a mistake on their part, which does look it because Pioli doesn’t like using them. Still I attribute the lack of success on new signings more to Pioli than them, but they really should be getting players with the coach’s input, because if the coach doesn’t want to use them, then they’re just a waste of space.

Still Maldini and Massara have done a good job with the budget they have and I think people are being too harsh in asking them to be fired.

The way it works when we sign players:

Pioli relays the team needs, meaning he says i want new CAM with X qualities, new CB, new DM etc.

Massara and Moncada then have a list of players, and say okay for CAM here are the options listed in order

Maldini then takes those options and tries to sign all of them for free. So he starts with the top of the list, and works his way down to eventually Messias on a free loan with a 3Mil option to buy.

 

[Samaldinho]

Let's be honest.

Kessie played A LOT of minutes with us in his first couple of years, without rest. I remember someone pulling up some stats regarding Tieleman having ran more than Modric throughout his career already and he is 10 years younger - that's one thing to keep in mind with Kessie as well.

He thought he was going to a more "prestigious" club based on recent performance and that he wouldn't have to shoulder nearly as much for blame like he did during our Scudetto run. It kind of shows where he's at mentally and I am glad we parted ways.

I am going to go ahead and make the same comment about Leao.

So what if he played a lot of minutes? He's not playing at all for Barca. He doesn't fit what they want or do.

It's not like he's playing and looks broken. He went to the wrong team.

If Muani made the right choice for his career, then Kessie is an example of making a poor choice for his career, because he doesn't play at all. He doesn't fit what they want from their midfielders even their more defensively minded ones. He's not Yaya Toure.

 

[Samaldinho]

And I wanted to avoid being in a scenario where our most valuable player is on his last year with us without renewing...

Well, don't worry, Bennacer renewed.

 

[Curupira]

So what if he played a lot of minutes? He's not playing at all for Barca. He doesn't fit what they want or do.

It's not like he's playing and looks broken. He went to the wrong team.

If Muani made the right choice for his career, then Kessie is an example of making a poor choice for his career, because he doesn't play at all. He doesn't fit what they want from their midfielders even their more defensively minded ones. He's not Yaya Toure.

No i mean from his perspective. He wanted to collect the check on a bigger team without having much responsibility. He just didn't realize he was going to be benched this much that it might affect his next contract.

I wasn't commenting at all regarding Kolo Muani, I think we agree that he was not within our reach like our friend suggested.

 

[Curupira]

Well, don't worry, Bennacer renewed.

 

[Panache]

I honestly think it will take more than that for him to be fired

If it takes longer than that, it won’t be because we still believe in him. It would be because we can’t afford to pay him a severance and hire a new manager.

 

[Alo88]

Elliot paid about 350-400 mil to cover Milan's losses over the time they owned the club, though they got the club for only around 300 mil ( the loan to Li ). Loads of clubs are making losses and the owners have to cover it.

[...]

You're writing as if all the clubs are all being run at profit or break even!! Having a rich owner willing to spend is huge, especially for a club that needs to grow fast.

Where do you get the 350-400M from? I did a quick Google search and couldn't find reports about those capital increases? Would be crazy if they did those after taking over and paying off old debts and bonds tho.

For the second part: Where did I say that? I was explicitly writing about how our own owners Elliott and Redbird are handling us (at least as far as I understand it) and how state-sposnered clubs or clubs with a historical bond to sugar daddy's / families are handling their clubs. I don't know why you're always assuming things in my posts I literally never wrote, it's kinda getting a running gag between you and me.

Anyway, no offense, but you clearly misunderstood my post.

 

[Panache]

No we’re not. The second phase started this season. We just started the new 3 year growth cycle where we should have a CL challenging side by the end of it. First 3 year cycle ended last season. This is Maldini’s own words.

“3 year growth cycle”? …buddy, we regressed this year. What growth?

 

[Samaldinho]

No i mean from his perspective. He wanted to collect the check on a bigger team without having much responsibility. I wasn't commenting at all regarding Kolo Muani, I think we agree that he was not within our reach like our friend suggested.

I get that, but I think he could be collecting a big check from other places... and be playing. Whoever is advising him should be steering him in the place that will be the best for him. Sitting on the bench doesn't suit any player. Kessie is not Braithwaite, happy to collect a check while he puts "entrepreneur" in his ig bio (I dunno if Martin does that as I do not have social media but I do know Martin is about that business life and professional sports is his side hustle lol)

I would have preferred for Kessie to have renewed at 4m, stayed here, so I could say wild shit about him being the best DM in the world while conveniently forgetting that I called him dogshit for 75% of 21/22.

Orrrrr if you're going to fuck us over out of a transfer fee, at least play. Donna plays, even if lol, the entire team wanted to keep Navas and hate him. Hakan plays. Romagnoli plays. Kessie sits on the bench and gets minutes in the cup.

I know we agree on Muani, I used Kolo to compare a player who made the better choice for his career to Kessie. Kessie looks like he was signed to be flipped by Barca, honest-to-God.

 

[Master Smurf]

Pogba injured again He's been at juventus for over 6 months and still doesn't have a single minute on the field Some people here were actually jealous of this move

 

[Curupira]

I get that, but I think he could be collecting a big check from other places... and be playing. Whoever is advising him should be steering him in the place that will be the best for him. Sitting on the bench doesn't suit any player. Kessie is not Braithwaite, happy to collect a check while he puts "entrepreneur" in his ig bio.

I would have preferred for Kessie to have renewed at 4m, stayed here, so I could say wild shit about him being the best DM in the world while conveniently forgetting that I called him dogshit for 75% of 21/22.

Orrrrr if you're going to fuck us over out of a transfer fee, at least play. Donna plays, even if lol, the entire team wanted to keep Navas and hate him. Hakan plays. Romagnoli plays. Kessie sits on the bench and gets minutes in the cup.

I know we agree on Muani, I used Kolo to compare a player who made the better choice for his career to Kessie. Kessie looks like he was signed to be flipped by Barca, honest-to-God.

 

[Alo88]

Absolutely...Sportiello is a quality, Serie A experienced goalkeeper and levels above fodder Tata who's clearly lost his confidence. Also, Tata is a serious threat to our CL ambitions where we stand to lose at least 7/8x the 5m that Sportiello costs. However, Maldini is handicapped by his poor summer mercato and has no money to spend after blowing 50m on CDK, Thiaw, Vrancx + Messias who've made next to no impact and handing out long term contracts to injury prone players like Florenzi + Origi. Also, being unable to get rid of Shittyoko means we're stuck paying him 2.5m gross for another 6 months of bench warming.

I'm saying this with a straight face: I'm going to blame every single goal conceded by Tata on Pioli, at least as long as I haven't seen Vasquez actually playing and being worse than Tata.

I used to defend Pioli and his players choices. But lately he hasn't given me enough reasons anymore to trust his judgment. If let's say we play Vasquez and he's going to let a shot from outside the edge of his box slip between his arms then fair play, Maldini really fucked up hugely with Vasquez. But until then I have literally zero understanding for giving Tata even one more single minute on the pitch.

 

[Master Smurf]

Just remember that this growth cycle that Brk is quoting Maldini on is tied to Paolo's belief he would get capable players.
Maldini also said that if the owners stay in a "maintenance" stance then we will be a top 6 team that may fight for the title.

 

[brk]

Difference is most of his 'good bets' came in his early years.

Since then majority if his bets hasnt panned out.

Its funny how folks have this notion that we are so far worse off because of one summer window. The process had actually started earlier in the previous year. But apparently you cant say that because we won the Scudetto.

The funny thing is we didnt even need a $100m mercato. All we needed to do was fill in two holes in the starting eleven every season. And if you decide to let starters go, replace them with equal or better quality.

But what we did was just basically push the problem down the line. Meanwhile the holes just kept increasing in number every season.

Ergo, we eventually reached critical mass - this season.

Theres only so far you can go when you keep ignoring the glaring issues.

But yet, the notion of wanting Maldini out is ludicrous. Man bleeds Milan.

But can we stop acting like as if he is some sort of genius when it comes to transfers?

Also, I want to know why we bought all these young guys when we are coached by a notoriously risk averse coach (who barely plays youngsters unless he is forced to).

His 'early years', meaning all the way back in the olden times of 2019, 2020 and 2021. It's just one summer that he had more misses. Even that, it's hard to judge since most of them were young guys that need time to develop.

2019: Theo, Bennacer, Leao
2020: Saelemaekers, Tonali, Tomori, Kalulu
2021: Maignan, Giroud

I guess you could argue 2021 wasn't that great (I disagree, and it's the year season we won the title anyway). We also redeemed Tonali and Tomori that year, so you could share them in either year. Anyway, the point is that it's a little funny to say 'early years' when he was hitting home runs for 3 of his 4 years.

 

[Omer]

Where do you get the 350-400M from? I did a quick Google search and couldn't find reports about those capital increases? Would be crazy if they did those after taking over and paying off old debts and bonds tho.

For the second part: Where did I say that? I was explicitly writing about how our own owners Elliott and Redbird are handling us (at least as far as I understand it) and how state-sposnered clubs or clubs with a historical bond to sugar daddy's / families are handling their clubs. I don't know why you're always assuming things in my posts I literally never wrote, it's kinda getting a running gag between you and me.

Anyway, no offense, but you clearly misunderstood my post.

CF: The total amount Elliott Management have invested into AC Milan

Elliott Management may have taken control not by design but due to the failure of Yonghong Li to fully repay his loan, but they ended up becoming invested in the club emotionally and financially.

sempremilan.com

Thanks to a Calcio e Finanza report (via MilanLive), we are able to see all the payments made by Elliott Management into Milan’s accounts after the approval of the financial statements as of 30 June 2022 which occurred yesterday.

During the 2021-22 financial year the shareholder Project RedBlack (the holding company linked to Elliott which owned 99.93% of Milan) provided new payments to the Milan coffers worth €5m. These are new resources that must be added to the €533.25m injected between 2 August 2018 and 30 June 2021.

Looking at the overall calculation, and also considering the payments made after 30 June 2020, Elliott Management have put €538.25m into the club. Then, €300m must be added given what was ‘invested’ by the American fund to take over control of the club from former owner Yonghong Li.

We thus arrive at a gross amount of €838.25m, but then €128m must be subtracted which refers to the two bonds issued in June 2017 under Fassone’s management. That amount was in fact reimbursed to Elliott after Yonghong Li left the scene, so we arrive at a final total of €710.25m.

Elliott have kept two seats on the board in order to protect the investment of the €600m loan granted to RedBird Capital to help their takeover, so they will have the chance to invest more should they see fit.



About injecting money into clubs it's not just sugar daddies / families doing it. Injecting money into a cub is also a strategy to increase the value of the club. Elliott saw it that way for some time. They got the club for 300 mil, injected another 400 mil and then sold the club for 1.2 bil.

Even Chelsea are owned by an investment consortium that are ultimately looking to make a profit in the long term. They are ok with putting in big sums now because they think the value of the club will increase by a greater amount than what they put in.

Redbird is a much smaller fund than Elliott or the Chelsea consortium so maybe they think that it's more risky for them to pursue an agressive strategy to grow the club.

 

[Panache]

Of course, if there is sustained bad results, Maldini will be to blame, 1 terrible month is not enough, and making rash decisions will most likely be counterproductive. I can totally understand the need for patience and trust, especially in a coach and squad that won a title less than a year ago.

Isn’t that precisely what’s happening? Yes, all these terrible results came within a month but how does that matter? What’s your definition of “sustained bad results”? Care to put a number on it? 5-8 bad games? 10?

If anything, no Milan fan actually wants Maldini out just for the heck of it. If it has come to this, it’s because the results are just inexcusable. Not to mention how bad he was in the transfer market.

 

[Samaldinho]

Pioli is making the players do the beep test in training? When you got injury problems?

 

[brk]

Just remember that this growth cycle that Brk is quoting Maldini on is tied to Paolo's belief he would get capable players.
Maldini also said that if the owners stay in a "maintenance" stance then we will be a top 6 team that may fight for the title.

Yeah, clearly that's the plan i'm building my hopes on. If nothing of the sort happens this summer, all bets are off.

 

[Samaldinho]

A kid from the primavera, Clinton Nsiala-Makengo, a defender, is training with the first team.

Hmm.

 

[Omer]

Kolo Muani signed a pre-contract all the way in March. We also had Ibra, Giroud, and potentially even Rebic ahead of him.

We aren't that attractive for a young player who's looking to springboard into a big move. And Muani is a move that many other big clubs "missed", maybe he wanted more playing time with less pressure instead of having to adapt for 2 years and then being asked to renew under the value he feels he is worth (Leao)

Basically Milan were either too slow or didn't believe in him enough. If Milan had offered Muani a pre-contract of 3 mil before March he would be Milan's player. I completely understand the attraction of a young player going to a small club like Frankfurt and at the same time the salary difference between 0.8 and 3-4 mil is just too much for a young player to ignore. Going from 0.8 mil to 3-4 mil is already the "springboard" he would be looking to get in the future!

Re the management, I understand the role of Maldini. Maldini is a natural leader. And even Massara might be better than we give him credit for as we don't know all inner workings and deal / potential deals and who had what to do with them. At the same time there is no reason to be all defensive about it. It's better to have an open discussion. Could he be upgraded or is there no one better than him that Milan could appoint as SD? Would Moncada maybe be a better SD or not? Or maybe someone else?

 

[Milan10]

@Fabio made one of the best points in the entire commode when he said he focuses more on other aspects of his life when Milan goes through a period like this.

Try not to let this all affect you, brothers. Ultimately, this is a sport and a club that we have ZERO control over. There is a lot of negativity here, some of it bordering on toxic, and I know this because I was that way for a good 5-7 years of the banter era... Turning on my commode friends because Milan was misery.

Definitely a rough patch and if you have read any of my work over the last 3 years you’d know this was totally unexpected for me. I’ve been positive and riding an emotional high under Pioli’s Milan. I hope we can turn this season around, which at this point means finishing top 4 and somehow getting through Tottenham. Either way, it’s not going to impact my life and happiness outside of a couple of hours a week watching matches and reading the forum. I wish the same for the rest of you.

 

[milanator]

Basically Milan were either too slow or didn't believe in him enough. If Milan had offered Muani a pre-contract of 3 mil before March he would be Milan's player. I completely understand the attraction of a young player going to a small club like Frankfurt and at the same time the salary difference between 0.8 and 3-4 mil is just too much for a young player to ignore. Going from 0.8 mil to 3-4 mil is already the "springboard" he would be looking to get in the future!

Re the management, I understand the role of Maldini. Maldini is a natural leader. And even Massara might be better than we give him credit for as we don't know all inner workings and deal / potential deals and who had what to do with them. At the same time there is no reason to be all defensive about it. It's better to have an open discussion. Could he be upgraded or is there no one better than him that Milan could appoint as SD. Would Moncada maybe be a better SD or not? Or maybe someone else?

I think if SD would be a better position for Moncada he would already be SD since management/owners trust him and he was here before Massara.

 

[Omer]

I think if SD would be a better position for Moncada he would already be SD.

Because SD's are born SDs? No SD starts at a lower position? Also Milan could look for other SDs from outside if they feel there is someone better. Maldini should definitely stay as technical director. He is the top guy for that. The SD position could possibly be upgraded....

 

[vB9]

@Samaldinho

That was a sweet post you made. Thanks.

 

[Edu-bY-A]

How do you know they are false? Did Milan offer a contract to Muani? And how much did they offer him? Because Origi is making 4 mil net at Milan. According to Capology ( https://www.capology.com/player/randal-kolo-muani-36134/profile/ ) Muani is on 0.8 mil net!!

There is no fucking way he would turn down 4 mil net to sign a contract for 0.8 mil!!

So first of all, I can rule out that Milan offered Origi and Kolo Muani the same salary. Kolo Muani would not have got 4 million net at Milan.

Moreover, German salaries are usually quoted gross. The basic salary is said to be €1.5 million gross. His net salary depends on the tax bracket. What about bonuses? What about signing since he was on a free transfer?

I work in the Frankfurt banking sector and people close to the club there say Milan offered a better salary but the signing bonus was lower and so was the prospect of playing time. That's why the player chose Frankfurt and not Milan.

 

[Pingu]

@mods can we have a new poll please?

Reason for the Commode being peaceful in the last hour:
- @Kojak and @yungeddy both banned
- @Kojak and @yungeddy meeting up IRL to fight it out
- @Kojak and @yungeddy both going nap time like babies do