Spanish La Liga Thread (BBVA)

[Wild]

Mourinho made Pep run to the Bundesfodder where even my grandmother would be champion if coaching Bayern. The great tactician and innovator got schooled by Ancelotti last year and Mourinho before that, and he still can't come up with anything inovative since the tiki taka of five years ago. hes been exposed and he hasn't brought anything new to the table ever since. Oh yeah, he made Lahm a DM, boo fucking hoo. Carlo made Pirlo and Kroos DM and James/Isco box to box CM.

Barca 2010 was the best team I ever saw, but Pep has done nada ever since. He's not better than Ancelotti or Mourinho.

And Sachi didnt invent anything since that Milan.
And , and .... and Capello didnt invent anything since that Milan.
I never said Pep is constantly inventing the shit in football.
He did however invent something new.
And am not talking about innovating players but rather systems.
Tiki take + 90 min of amazing concentration are all due to him.
Also its no coincidence that both Spain & Germany won the world cup when he was managing most of their players.
He could fail till the rest of his career but he will still be considered an innovator like Rinus , Sachi & co.

 

[jammin]

Nah , that would be Mou's Inter & maybe Atletico of last season.

I meant purely in terms of attacking on the counter. Ronaldo, Bale, Di Maria and Benzema would be hard to top.

 

[jammin]

Mourinho made Pep run to the Bundesfodder where even my grandmother would be champion if coaching Bayern. The great tactician and innovator got schooled by Ancelotti last year and Mourinho before that, and he still can't come up with anything inovative since the tiki taka of five years ago. hes been exposed and he hasn't brought anything new to the table ever since. Oh yeah, he made Lahm a DM, boo fucking hoo. Carlo made Pirlo and Kroos DM and James/Isco box to box CM.

Barca 2010 was the best team I ever saw, but Pep has done nada ever since. He's not better than Ancelotti or Mourinho.

Current Bayern system is very different to Barca tiki taka.

 

[justhope]

Guardiolas consistency came because his players always had a very good mental conditioning. Thats what made them such a good team even on big occassions. Ancelotti's milan had a very bad tendency to get lax. It became worse when they entered senatore stages.

As far as talent goes... This is milan forum so I wont expect too much objectivism but honestly an attack of messi, eto'o, henry, xavi and iniesta has the edge over kaka, shevchenko, inzaghi, pirlo and seedorf. Mainly because of seedorf and pirlo being flawed (seedorf's mentality and pirlo being easy to man mark out). Iniesta and xavi have more to offer than both.
Other than that messi is head over heels better than all the other attackers on the list. Henry, eto'o and shevchenko inzaghi is a far closer affair. No opinion there.

reading thru some pages, reporting post full of bullshit

 

[Casualista]

reading thru some pages, reporting post full of bullshit

 

[justhope]

yea, you do that..

 

[Madridista]

And Sachi didnt invent anything since that Milan.
And , and .... and Capello didnt invent anything since that Milan.
I never said Pep is constantly inventing the shit in football.
He did however invent something new.
And am not talking about innovating players but rather systems.
Tiki take + 90 min of amazing concentration are all due to him.
Also its no coincidence that both Spain & Germany won the world cup when he was managing most of their players.
He could fail till the rest of his career but he will still be considered an innovator like Rinus , Sachi & co.

For Spain its no coincidence, for Germany.. oh yes it is. They have been great and playing with the same upcoming generation for years, and it just matured. Guardiola has much less credit for that than Klopp or Heynckes for example.

As for systems, Carlo is playing right now without a single holding midfielder. They are all converted AMs, Modric, Kroos and James. Talk about innovation, it hasn't been done ever, even Guardiola used a DM in Busquers. The christmas tree formation? It was something Carlo ushered in football.

Pep has been tactically outclassed by Ancelotti last year, so I wouldn't say that hes better as a tactician. Hes one of the best coaches out there, but so is Ancelotti.

Current Bayern system is very different to Barca tiki taka.

The same, just worse

 

[General]

Carlo

 

[Raz]

Tfat sucking on that tiny Bartha dick way too hard.

 

[jammin]

The same, just worse

Not really, no.

 

[Wild]

For Spain its no coincidence, for Germany.. oh yes it is. They have been great and playing with the same upcoming generation for years, and it just matured. Guardiola has much less credit for that than Klopp or Heynckes for example.

I dont know , I just felt him in that Germany.
Of course the germs have been building an amazing legacy & it was just about time till they touch down , am not denying that.
Even their criticism to Pep when the season was over was turned to full praise after the world cup.

And true that carlo outplayed pep in that game but that doesnt mean he is a better tactician.
I really hope they meet again this season since both are doing even better than last season , it would be epic.

I meant purely in terms of attacking on the counter. Ronaldo, Bale, Di Maria and Benzema would be hard to top.

Oh yeah sure.
But again take out CR7 & they arent as massive.

 

[manutd fan]

Its hard to tell. When that Barca appeared with the tiki-taka, it was a revolution. Nobody knew how to play against that. Now its passe, good coaches found a formula to counter them; I think its easier to play them now not just because they are weaker, but because teams have developed a counter strategy. But they never could have developed that approach until they got thrashed by Barca in the first place. Tt that time, their intensity and method was so unexpected and therefore unstoppable.

still, Barca won the 2011 CL based on a scandalous decision with Madrid aka Pepe's red card, who knows what it would have been had Wolfgang Stark not refereed that game.

You could also say they won the 2009 CL based on the worst refereeing performance ever vs Chelsea. That was far more scandalous than 2011.

But eh they were the best team both years so...

 

[Senatore_M84]

For Spain its no coincidence, for Germany.. oh yes it is. They have been great and playing with the same upcoming generation for years, and it just matured. Guardiola has much less credit for that than Klopp or Heynckes for example.

As for systems, Carlo is playing right now without a single holding midfielder. They are all converted AMs, Modric, Kroos and James. Talk about innovation, it hasn't been done ever, even Guardiola used a DM in Busquers. The christmas tree formation? It was something Carlo ushered in football.

Pep has been tactically outclassed by Ancelotti last year, so I wouldn't say that hes better as a tactician. Hes one of the best coaches out there, but so is Ancelotti.



The same, just worse

2003-7 milan used all converted am's in CM (minus gattuso).

Did similar w/ psg w/ pastore

 

[Senatore_M84]

Its hard to tell. When that Barca appeared with the tiki-taka, it was a revolution. Nobody knew how to play against that. Now its passe, good coaches found a formula to counter them; I think its easier to play them now not just because they are weaker, but because teams have developed a counter strategy. But they never could have developed that approach until they got thrashed by Barca in the first place. Tt that time, their intensity and method was so unexpected and therefore unstoppable.

still, Barca won the 2011 CL based on a scandalous decision with Madrid aka Pepe's red card, who knows what it would have been had Wolfgang Stark not refereed that game.

not sure it was a revolution or madrid beat them.


it was culmination of certain talents hitting peak and coach instilling a scheme that their unique skillset fit.

 

[manutd fan]

Using converted AM's in CM isn't a new thing, tbh. It's been done for decades.

 

[Madridista]

Using converted AM's in CM isn't a new thing, tbh. It's been done for decades.

Of course. But making up a three man midfield consisting of all three AMs, is something I haven't seen before. He converted AMs to CMs in Milan and PSG, but he always used a real DM.

And yeah 2009 with Chelsea and Ovrebo's refereeing. Disgusting, their legacy would have been nowhere near it is today, but I do agree they were the best team then. Problem is, that concept of being the best team doesn't really count for much unless you won the trophy.

 

[Redman10]

Carlo IMO is a more versatile coach than Pep.

 

[Casualista]

Take the recent game against Barca for example. Under Allegri.

We defended amazingly as a unit. However Nesta singlehandedly (on many occasions) shut Messi up with his individual defensive skills.

Which brings me to another point...

Is it just me or does Man marking Messi with a good defensive player almost completely shut him off?

From recent memory I can think of Nesta, Pepe (to an extent), Sokratis lol and Koscielny. I'm sure there were others. I mean when they chase him down like a rabid dog every time he has the ball.

Too bad there aren't many teams that do that anymore or even have the players capable of doing it.

From recent memory, under allegri coaching milan, messi has a poultry record of 8 goals and 3 assists in 8 games vs us. The only way most teams stop messi is if messi is feeling moody rather than anything they come up with (all this is in context of barcelona obviously)....
======

On a general note, most of the problem here with barca seems to be a classic case of haters gonna hate. In that case I reccomend two shots of:

 

[Madridista]

Carlo IMO is a more versatile coach than Pep.

Pretty much. more... dimensional, so to say. and that counts alot

 

[justhope]

From recent memory, under allegri coaching milan, messi has a poultry record of 8 goals and 3 assists in 8 games vs us. The only way most teams stop messi is if messi is feeling moody rather than anything they come up with (all this is in context of barcelona obviously)....
======

On a general note, most of the problem here with barca seems to be a classic case of haters gonna hate. In that case I reccomend two shots of:

I d bet that around half of those are from penalties

 

[Casualista]

I d bet that around half of those are from penalties

I'd bet you thought you were making a point.

4 penalties, 4 goals, and 3 assists in 8 games.

We sure showed him who is boss.

 

[AsparagusFC]

people tend to forget 2010's barcelona was beaten by mourinho's inter.

And inter's team treble campaign was probably the strongest team i've ever seen. (that inter coached by mourinho not benitez)

 

[General]

people tend to forget 2010's barcelona was beaten by mourinho's inter.

And inter's team treble campaign was probably the strongest team i've ever seen. (that inter coached by mourinho not benitez)

 

[Soldier_of_god]

On a big occasion, i would not be surprised at all if carlo's milan beats bacra. Hell if arsenal could do it, then i am sure that great milan can too.

 

[Madridista]

people tend to forget 2010's barcelona was beaten by mourinho's inter.

And inter's team treble campaign was probably the strongest team i've ever seen. (that inter coached by mourinho not benitez)

Barca was best after Ibra left and Villa arrived in 2010/11. Messi moves to the middle, Villa is put on the wing to make off the ball runs all day, full midget power mode activated.

 

[Wet Ones]

From recent memory, under allegri coaching milan, messi has a poultry record of 8 goals and 3 assists in 8 games vs us. The only way most teams stop messi is if messi is feeling moody rather than anything they come up with (all this is in context of barcelona obviously)....

Sorry but absolute Bull

I'd bet you thought you were making a point.

4 penalties, 4 goals, and 3 assists in 8 games.

We sure showed him who is boss.

Out of those 4 non-penalty goals, how many scored with Nesta on the pitch?

Anyways, you took my point and twisted it around so you can continue your Messi fap session.

I didn't say he was shit against Milan (although, if not mistaken, he hasn't scored in open play against any other Italian sides). What I said was in that particular game with Nesta we put in an amazing defensive performance and Nesta made Messi his bitch. 36yr old Nesta btw. An example to wild on how teams had both in the past. You didn't have to make it a 'Messi is da best' post.

 

[Soldier_of_god]

Lel they needed a penalty from a corner kick to win against an ibra led milan side. everybody is providing their own random hypothetical examples to prove their point, but saying 2010 barca side would dominate carlo's milan is simply asinine. In a cup type game, you would expect big game players to step up and show the world what they are truly capable of. We had plenty of these big game players in our team. We were known for our supremacy in big matches particularly when we play as underdogs.

 

[jammin]

We had some great defensive performances against Barca. Full credit to Allegri.

 

[seveners]

people tend to forget 2010's barcelona was beaten by mourinho's inter.

And inter's team treble campaign was probably the strongest team i've ever seen. (that inter coached by mourinho not benitez)

 

[AsparagusFC]