Spanish La Liga Thread (BBVA)

[leaf]

It's amazing what a little quality trolling can set into motion

 

[Az.]

You're the guy that wanted Carlo replaced by Guus Hiddink right?

He is also the same moron that said that Carlo's career will go downhill so bad after leaving Milan that he will coach Serie B sides.

 

[Soldier_of_god]

Dont ashish say the same thing lel.

 

[GreatKalu]

Carlo IMO is a more versatile coach than Pep.

My view as well. And that includes that Barca side being less versatile than Carlo's Milan. We could go all out and demolish a side with possession football, or play defensive and hit them on the counter. That Barca side was only tic-tac-toeing viewers to boredom.

And lets not forget that of the goals Messi scored in open play against us (at our weak stage with freekin Alegri lob-it-to-Ibra as coach) wasn't one offside right after Pique handled a cross from KPB in the penalty box after Niang missed a 1-on-1?

2006 - Sheva's disallowed goal.
2009 - Stamford Bridge disgrace
2011 - Van Persie red card + Real Madrid ...

Any such clear controversial moments in Milan's triumphs of 2003 and 2007? Well there is Gerard's dive for the third penalty at Istanbul, of which karma had the final say end of last season with his famous slip

 

[Soldier_of_god]

Conversely, we did struggle against ajax iirc. The mitigating circumstance in our case would be the fact that ajax were actually strong that season. I have no proof to substatiate this hypothesis, but i believe deportivo injected ped's when they beat us 4-0. How on earth did their old washed up midfielders out run us all game long and exert relentless pressure with such aggressiveness that even a player well known for his tremendous work rate and aggressive play like tevez would be left dumbfounded.
As for the psv game, we always struggle against them besides we did rest a couple of our key players in the away leg. They only scored their third goal in the last minute or so anyway. Maldini was subbed off before half time due to injury as well.

 

[leaf]

No excuses for Deportivo and Liverpool. C'mon....we just fell asleep.

 

[KujaIX]

From recent memory, under allegri coaching milan, messi has a poultry record of 8 goals and 3 assists in 8 games vs us. The only way most teams stop messi is if messi is feeling moody rather than anything they come up with (all this is in context of barcelona obviously)....
======

On a general note, most of the problem here with barca seems to be a classic case of haters gonna hate. In that case I reccomend two shots of:

I think that's the case with Balo too.

 

[GreatKalu]

No excuses for Deportivo and Liverpool. C'mon....we just fell asleep.

No one is making excuses for Depor and Liverpool. Just pointing out a very important fact that is: There's a lot of controversy surrounding Barca's latests successes ... can the same be said of Carlo's Milan? If so, please advise which matches and the events ...

More importantly is the excuse you're going to have to give us concerning your avatar ... "Never forget who we are" caption to an image that has Ronnietta and Dinho next to servants like Maldini, Nesta and Pippo? Come on those scam artists are partly the reason why we're in our current predicament ...

 

[Soldier_of_god]

Actually i agree with leaf and i apologize for starting those messi vs the world debates. I re-watched both legs again and all i can say is Fuck messi. Ronaldinho in his prime was definitely the better player. He played with weaker players but his creativity and technical prowess made them truly invincible. Ronaldinho's peak form > any player on earth barring zidane maybe. Messi is the greatest in terms of consistency.

 

[leaf]

No one is making excuses for Depor and Liverpool. Just pointing out a very important fact that is: There's a lot of controversy surrounding Barca's latests successes ... can the same be said of Carlo's Milan? If so, please advise which matches and the events ...

More importantly is the excuse you're going to have to give us concerning your avatar ... "Never forget who we are" caption to an image that has Ronnietta and Dinho next to servants like Maldini, Nesta and Pippo? Come on those scam artists are partly the reason why we're in our current predicament ...

Do whatever you want with Dinho mad, but leave Ronaldo the fuck alone .....we've been down this road already

Ronaldo and Dinho are two of the greatest players of all time whatever your opinions of them are and it is fitting that two of the best got to play in our beloved red and black. I feel the same way about Redondo, Crespo, Vieri, Rivaldo, Rui, Becks, Stam etc. All might not have been quite the players they were at their peak but seeing them in our special kit gave me a feeling that I'll always treasure.

 

[milanicious]

In terms of peak form, I'll always pick R9.

 

[Soldier_of_god]

Crespo was in his prime for us though? Rui i guess was reaching his post prime form during our 2003 ucl campaign.

 

[Soldier_of_god]

In terms of peak form, I'll always pick R9.

Ronaldinho
Zidane
Messi

In that order for me.

 

[leaf]

Crespo was in his prime for us though? Especially the latter. Rui i guess was reaching his post prime form during our 2003 ucl campaign.

Crespo was most impressive for Lazio imho. I loved seeing him play though and was thrilled to see him in our colours. He wasn't that great for us when he just started out and just as he was hitting his old form......we didn't take him and bought Gilardino

 

[Soldier_of_god]

tbf everyone was excited when we were linked with gila at the time. Young, italian, had potential and was just coming off the best season he ever had with parma lol. wish we had bought adriano .

 

[Casualista]

I think that's the case with Balo too.

What a lazy bait.

 

[Redman10]

Conversely, we did struggle against ajax iirc. The mitigating circumstance in our case would be the fact that ajax were actually strong that season. I have no proof to substatiate this hypothesis, but i believe deportivo injected ped's when they beat us 4-0. How on earth did their old washed up midfielders out run us all game long and exert relentless pressure with such aggressiveness that even a player well known for his tremendous work rate and aggressive play like tevez would be left dumbfounded.
As for the psv game, we always struggle against them besides we did rest a couple of our key players in the away leg. They only scored their third goal in the last minute or so anyway. Maldini was subbed off before half time due to injury as well.

Doesn't that make the case that Pep Barca would be more than capable of beating that Milan. They kept that pressing and possession play for 90 minutes.

 

[jammin]

What a lazy bait.

Because you're such a master baiter.

 

[Wild]

Sorry but absolute Bull




Out of those 4 non-penalty goals, how many scored with Nesta on the pitch?

Anyways, you took my point and twisted it around so you can continue your Messi fap session.

I didn't say he was shit against Milan (although, if not mistaken, he hasn't scored in open play against any other Italian sides). What I said was in that particular game with Nesta we put in an amazing defensive performance and Nesta made Messi his bitch. 36yr old Nesta btw. An example to wild on how teams had both in the past. You didn't have to make it a 'Messi is da best' post.

Its just an excuse not to give credit for Messi & CR7.
No one do that to any of the past legends.
I mean we dont hear anyone question Pele's status by doing a check of his rivals or in what competitions he scored all those goals.
No one say Maradona had it easy with defenders.

No , past players are judged on what they did regardless but when it comes to Messi & Cr7 its this and that.
People have problems to believe they are witnessing legends & those will be recognized in the future maybe.

I mean whats the theory really ?!!!!
There is a drop in quality of defenders & it happened that only two players among thousands in the world that are able to exploit the shit out of it for the past eight years breaking all the records in the history of the sport and meanwhile , outside those two , all other attackers are still living in a matrix kinda shit where they are only allowed to play football in regular mode !!!! RFOL

 

[Soldier_of_god]

Doesn't that make the case that Pep Barca would be more than capable of beating that Milan. They kept that pressing and possession play for 90 minutes.

They never did it consistently though. See the games against arsenal and chelsea etc. Its not like carlo's milan would just allow them to dictate play either. Carlo's milan played very well on the counter when needed iirc.

 

[milanicious]

Messi and Cristiano aren't the only ones who get a high scoring tally through the season. You have Ibrahimovich , Suarez , Costa , Aguero , Falcao , Di natale giving them some competition in the last years and most of them miss a good deal of matches through injuries.

 

[leaf]

Its just an excuse not to give credit for Messi & CR7.
No one do that to any of the past legends.
I mean we dont hear anyone question Pele's status by doing a check of his rivals or in what competitions he scored all those goals.
No one say Maradona had it easy with defenders.

No , past players are judged on what they did regardless but when it comes to Messi & Cr7 its this and that.
People have problems to believe they are witnessing legends & those will be recognized in the future maybe.

Not true.
Di Stefano won 5 CL's in a row with Madrid....yet the convo is always Pele vs Maradonna....why? It's because Pele and Maradonna won the biggest tournament in the world, while Di Stefano (with all due respect) won a tournament where Real was hands down superior to everyone else.....kinda like Messi's and CR7's teams these days.

Also Maradonna gets equal respect to Pele even though he won less because the he faced far more high level defenders like Baresi, Gentile, Maldini etc

I mean whats the theory really ?!!!!
There is a drop in quality of defenders & it happened that only two players among thousands in the world that are able to exploit the shit out of it for the past eight years breaking all the records in the history of the sport and meanwhile , outside those two , all other attackers are still living in a matrix kinda shit where they are only allowed to play football in regular mode !!!! RFOL

Wrong again.....it's not only CR7 and Messi that are exploiting it.....there are many players who aren't on CR7/Messi's level that are putting up numbers that would only be reserved for world class players of the previous era's. Ibrahimovic is scoring goals by the boatload now....even though he's in his 30's. For sure he has improved.....but as has generally always been the case...he gets it done against the lower level opponents.

25~30 goals (or thereabout) used to be a special number to attain in any of the major European Leagues....nowadays, it's not just CR7 and Messi pulling it off

last year it was CR7 (31) Messi (28) and Costa In La Liga. Suarez got 31

Serie A had Cavani in the previous season with 29. La Liga had Messi with 46, CR7 with 34 and Falcao with 29.Van Persie got 26.


Compare these numbers with what the legends of the pervious generation made. Below are the highest league goals these guys ever got in a single season in one of the top leagues:

R9 - 34 (la liga)
Henry - 30 (prem)
Sheva - 24 (serie a)
Raul - 24 (la liga)
RVN - 25 (prem and la liga)
Marco Van Basten - 25 (serie a)
Crespo - 26 (serie a)
Batigol - 26 (serie a)
Vieri - 24 (la liga / Serie A)
ADP - 21 (Serie A)
Trezuget - 24 (serie A)

If you would compare these numbers with what guys like Higuain (27), Benzema (21) Immobile (22) Di Natale (29) ...it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to conclude that it's easier to score these days.

 

[Casualista]

Not true.
Di Stefano won 5 CL's in a row with Madrid....yet the convo is always Pele vs Maradonna....why? It's because Pele and Maradonna won the biggest tournament in the world, while Di Stefano (with all due respect) won a tournament where Real was hands down superior to everyone else.....kinda like Messi's and CR7's teams these days.

Also Maradonna gets equal respect to Pele even though he won less because the he faced far more high level defenders like Baresi, Gentile, Maldini etc




Wrong again.....it's not only CR7 and Messi that are exploiting it.....there are many players who aren't on CR7/Messi's level that are putting up numbers that would only be reserved for world class players of the previous era's. Ibrahimovic is scoring goals by the boatload now....even though he's in his 30's. For sure he has improved.....but as has generally always been the case...he gets it done against the lower level opponents.

25~30 goals (or thereabout) used to be a special number to attain in any of the major European Leagues....nowadays, it's not just CR7 and Messi pulling it off

last year it was CR7 (31) Messi (28) and Costa In La Liga. Suarez got 31

Serie A had Cavani in the previous season with 29. La Liga had Messi with 46, CR7 with 34 and Falcao with 29.Van Persie got 26.


Compare these numbers with what the legends of the pervious generation made. Below are the highest league goals these guys ever got in a single season in one of the top leagues:

R9 - 34 (la liga)
Henry - 30 (prem)
Sheva - 24 (serie a)
RVN - 25 (prem and la liga)
Marco Van Basten - 25 (serie a)
Crespo - 26 (serie a)
Batigol - 26 (serie a)
Vieri - 24 (la liga / Serie A)
ADP - 21 (Serie A)
Trezuget - 24 (serie A)

Thats not because of drop in quality of defenders though or how many great defenders they faced. The number of great players are more or less the same in each era but in the current era there is greater concentration of good players in a much smaller number of big clubs. All the top players in the world right now could be summed up in barcelona, real madrid, chelsea, manchester city and bayern munich. Then you have a few off shoots in united, PSG, dortmund and atletico.

The midtable teams over time have comparatively become significantly weaker to top teams as compared to 90s.

But having said that, both messi and cronaldo are better than all names there though, other than r9 (dunno about mvb). In the last 20 years I can see them scoring 30+ in any league.

 

[Senatore_M84]

Thats not because of drop in quality of defenders though or how many great defenders they faced. The number of great players are more or less the same in each era but in the current era there is greater concentration of good players in a much smaller number of big clubs. All the top players in the world right now could be summed up in barcelona, real madrid, chelsea, manchester city and bayern munich. Then you have a few off shoots in united, PSG, dortmund and atletico.

The midtable teams over time have comparatively become significantly weaker to top teams as compared to 90s.

But having said that, both messi and cronaldo are better than all names there though, other than r9 (dunno about mvb). In the last 20 years I can see them scoring 30+ in any league.

perhaps in spain (actually definitely in spain) but i don't think so globally at all but thats more to the top 2 being so much better (I mean ridiculous amount of depth real madrid have is unprecedented).

Especially when you consider globalization. Look back 30 years at protectionist policy on number of foreign players allowed in european leagues for ex.


-


I still maintain it's revisionist history where you either
a) didn't see every game in past, because every team has bad weeks
b) you forget bad stuff

Mostly i think it's overexposure of 2010+ which internet and mass media allows for, and is a reason teams have so much more money.

 

[milanicious]

Sanchez was competing with CR7 when Messi was out.

Rossi would have outscored both CR and Suarez if it weren't for his injury and he plays for Fiorentina.

Immobile scored 22 goals for Torino with only one creative player to his aid.

Di Natale scored 29 goals in his 30's for Udinese.

I think it is safe to say it is much easier to score nowadays.

 

[Casualista]

perhaps in spain (actually definitely in spain) but i don't think so globally at all but thats more to the top 2 being so much better (I mean ridiculous amount of depth real madrid have is unprecedented).

Especially when you consider globalization. Look back 30 years at protectionist policy on number of foreign players allowed in european leagues for ex.


-


I still maintain it's revisionist history where you either
a) didn't see every game in past, because every team has bad weeks
b) you forget bad stuff

Mostly i think it's overexposure of 2010+ which internet and mass media allows for, and is a reason teams have so much more money.

Nah it is definitely a new european phenomenon in the top leagues. If you want an indication of how concentrated players are just compare the teams progressing in ucl and how competiitive leagues are within and amongst each other. Also compare how many points ahead the top or top two teams are from chasing pack since 90s.
Serie A had 8 great teams, now it has 0. An average team like juve ends up with 100 odd points.
Spain doesnt need elaboration.
Bundesliga between 2003-2012 saw 5 different winners, now it is getting over with 2 months to spare.
EPL is the only league that has remained competitive though.

Platini introduced ffp precisely because he saw things getting less competitive and skewed over time.

 

[Senatore_M84]

Nah it is definitely a new european phenomenon in the top leagues. If you want an indication of how concentrated players are just compare the teams progressing in ucl and how competiitive leagues are within and amongst each other. Also compare how many points ahead the top or top two teams are from chasing pack since 90s.
Serie A had 8 great teams, now it has 0. An average team like juve ends up with 100 odd points.
Spain doesnt need elaboration.
Bundesliga between 2003-2012 saw 5 different winners, now it is getting over with 2 months to spare.
EPL is the only league that has remained competitive though.

Platini introduced ffp precisely because he saw things getting less competitive and skewed over time.

That's true... and again this is somewhat related to what i was saying. Explosion of football globalization was mostly realized w/ UCL. Money made for being in ucl (both tv pay outs and global marketing related to being a known brand in it) took those clubs wealth gap to way higher.

My point was simple though: Overall level is higher from standpoint of we have talent from all over world in europe as opposed to protectionist policies of 80s and when clubs in south america were arguably as good or stronger than europe for ex.

 

[leaf]

Again, to put my post into contex consider just how good these guys were or were viewed:

R9 - Three time WOPY and two golden balls
Henry - Considered the best in the prem and always in the running for golden ball
ADP - JuBe/Italian legend
Sheva - Golden Ball winner and Milan legend
Batigol - Argentina's former leading goal scorer. Finished just behind Ronaldo for WOPY
Raul - CL record breaker
Marco Van Basten - Needs no introduction. Multiple golden ball and wopy winner


And so on.....Guys like Di Natale/Higuain/RVP etc will never be in contention for these awards because there are much much better players ahead of them.....so why are they putting up numbers that were formerly reserved for the elite??

My take is that scoring is easier now and it's also reasonable to assume that the quality of defenses have decreased.

Also, as many other posters have commented...the level of competition between the big teams and the rest is now almost 0. Nowadays, you hardly have a player that is considered a superstar who isn't playing for a big team. Hell you hardly have any genuine super stars outside of Real, Barca, Bayern, Manure, City and Chelsea.

The "good" teams have disappeared. Leverkusen, Shalkae, Fiorentina, Roma, Lazio, Parma, Aston Villa, Arsenal Spurs, Deportivo, Valencia, etc etc are now waaaaaay waaaaay behind the aforementioned. All that remain is Atletico, Dortmund and Sevilla and maybe Everton....but they keep getting gutted by the big teams. Dortmund has been doing this so often they are actually in relegation trouble. Atleti have overspent horribly and Everton won't be able to hold on to their stars....I guarantee it.

Honestly, with football in the state it's in today, CR7 and Messi can't help but put up these silly numbers.

 

[jammin]

Different era bruv

 

[Wet Ones]

In the last 20 years I can see them scoring 30+ in any league.

Yet Mr. Messi went 610 minutes without scoring (open play) against Italian opposition. By that time he had one goal and it was a penalty.

Of course Milan HAD to ruin that pathetic record.

Just like we let the first Asian ever score in the UCL


Meanwhile CR has scored 3 against Milan, 3 against Roma, 1 against Inter and 2 against Juve.

Nope...I can't see Messi scoring 30+. Not in the world class Serie A anyways