Super Berlusconi + Galliani Thread

[Ashish]

God damn dont sell it berlu

 

[Jasper]

But he speaks sense there.

He speaks random bullshit. I wish I could make the money he makes with similar shit.

 

[Naraku]

AC Milan president Silvio Berlusconi is launching plans to find new investment for the club.

Il Giorno says an accountant for Berlusconi has been in the Middle East sounding out potential investors about taking a minority stake in the club.

Those close to Berlusconi have also employed a bank to make an assessment of the value of the club, which according to Forbes, is the sixth richest in the game.

So what happened to the Chinese investment??

 

[Casualista]

He speaks random bullshit. I wish I could make the money he makes with similar shit.

You sound like a nokia worker who lost his job.... Or a closet Fin nationalist

I dont follow what Stephen Elop says most of the time so you could be right.

As far as his burning platform analogy goes though, he was spot on in describing Nokia and I think it describes Milan well too.

 

[necromancer]

Stephen Elop's description of Nokia's situation was flamboyant but partial (due to his own reasons)..

Business decisions are about choices. The man in the burning platform may have had only one option (or multiple if you think of it as an option tree. You jump to the water - then what? Do you swim or do you yell for rescue? Do you try to break off a plank from the platform and hold on to it to stay afloat?) But that story is stupid because that story attracts you with its apparent simplicity but doesn't go beyond the first choice.... and Nokia surely had multiple options.

And Milan, from a profitability point of view, took one of their multiple options 2 seasons back and is succeeding due to it. From a sporting success point of view, we aren't. Our owner may or may not care about the latter (He would definitely know that we need sporting success for long-term business success as well), but my guess is that he does.

So anyway, irrelevant analogy with Elop's platform fable.

Regardless, stake sale to a suitable investor seems like an excellent idea for any Italian club these days.

 

[Casualista]

Stephen Elop's description of Nokia's situation was flamboyant but partial (due to his own reasons)..

Business decisions are about choices. The man in the burning platform may have had only one option (or multiple if you think of it as an option tree. You jump to the water - then what? Do you swim or do you yell for rescue? Do you try to break off a plank from the platform and hold on to it to stay afloat?) But that story is stupid because that story attracts you with its apparent simplicity but doesn't go beyond the first choice.... and Nokia surely had multiple options.

And Milan, from a profitability point of view, took one of their multiple options 2 seasons back and is succeeding due to it. From a sporting success point of view, we aren't. Our owner may or may not care about the latter (He would definitely know that we need sporting success for long-term business success as well), but my guess is that he does.

So anyway, irrelevant analogy with Elop's platform fable.

Regardless, stake sale to a suitable investor seems like an excellent idea for any Italian club these days.

The burning platform is the status quo and we along with the most clubs in Serie A are standing on it. The multiple explosions are the ascent of other leagues in comparison. Jumping in the water is the first step to radical change. But his point is it is the water where further options lie and not on the platform. What you describe is more along the lines of we are still on the platform with the bucket of water in hand putting out the nearest fire. Milan have only gotten rid of the senatore wages. I dont see selling Ibra and Silva as profitable moves considering we risk much bigger losses in coming years.

The plunge will only start with the selling of this club and only then will real options arise.

 

[necromancer]

The burning platform is the status quo and we along with the most clubs in Serie A are standing on it. The multiple explosions are the ascent of other leagues in comparison. Jumping in the water is the first step to radical change. But his point is it is the water where further options lie and not on the platform.

Milan have only gotten rid of the senatore wages. I dont see selling Ibra and Silva as profitable moves considering we risk much bigger losses in coming years.
What you describe is more along the lines of we are still on the platform with the bucket of water in hand putting out the nearest fire.

The plunge will only start with the selling of this club and only then will real options arise.

You're still assuming that the platform is burning. Hardly. Like I said already, the short-term indicator here is profitability and our decision to sell key players and start with cheap youngsters have improved our bottomline - helped by other things like increased TV money for CL and so on. Financially, in all indicators, Milan are doing better now. So how is the financial base burning here?

Secondly, as I've said, sporting success is required for a Serie A club to make money in the long-term. An Arsenal could pull it off without sporting success because their league is watched by the masses. But Milan needs European success. So we may have a burning platform in 4-5 years, depending largely on how the current Balotelli-El Shaarawy-Montolivo generation develops into a team. That's an ongoing project and certainly not a burning platform in any form.

 

[Casualista]

You're still assuming that the platform is burning. Hardly. Like I said already, the short-term indicator here is profitability and our decision to sell key players and start with cheap youngsters have improved our bottomline - helped by other things like increased TV money for CL and so on. Financially, in all indicators, Milan are doing better now. So how is the financial base burning here?

Secondly, as I've said, sporting success is required for a Serie A club to make money in the long-term. An Arsenal could pull it off without sporting success because their league is watched by the masses. But Milan needs European success. So we may have a burning platform in 4-5 years, depending largely on how the current Balotelli-El Shaarawy-Montolivo generation develops into a team. That's an ongoing project and certainly not a burning platform in any form.

I think it is self evident the platform is burning. From footballing aspects our rivals are better than us both in domestic and European circuit. Not to mention they have much better long term projects in place with regards to coach and fairly young players. This means just qualifying for competition is an issue let alone success. The damage 1 or 2 years in a row of not qualifying for UCL will put an immediate halt in any project and will trigger immediate sales. And this is speaking IN the short run. Also, I dont think this is an exaggeration since all of our financial indicators are massively affected by which competition we play.

I agree with most of your second paragraph on long term stability needs to be built on success.

 

[necromancer]

I think it is self evident the platform is burning. From footballing aspects our rivals are better than us both in domestic and European circuit. Not to mention they have much better long term projects in place with regards to coach and fairly young players. This means just qualifying for competition is an issue let alone success. The damage 1 or 2 years in a row of not qualifying for UCL will put an immediate halt in any project and will trigger immediate sales. And this is speaking IN the short run. Also, I dont think this is an exaggeration since all of our financial indicators are massively affected by which competition we play.

I agree with most of your second paragraph on long term stability needs to be built on success.

The problem with your analysis is that you are analyzing short-term bottomline on how you think we could be affected by our rivals' projects, which are mostly in the beginning stage. 2 years of not qualifying for CL would probably put us in trouble with our current cost structure. So your platform would arrive then. At this point, it is an expected platform in a 2-year horizon and thus not a short-term indicator.

One doesn't jump into the water from a platform that may burn in 2 years only if rivals such as Roma or Napoli do better than us consistently in a league as volatile as Serie A.

 

[Casualista]

The problem with your analysis is that you are analyzing short-term bottomline on how you think we could be affected by our rivals' projects, which are mostly in the beginning stage. 2 years of not qualifying for CL would probably put us in trouble with our current cost structure. So your platform would arrive then. At this point, it is an expected platform in a 2-year horizon and thus not a short-term indicator.

One doesn't jump into the water from a platform that may burn in 2 years if rivals such as Roma or Napoli do better than us consistently in a league as volatile as Serie A.

I guess there is the problem with your definition of short term and my definition of short term. I see 2 seasons as short term and 5 seasons as medium term. Anything more is long term.

Coming to our rivals, unless a catastrophe happens or roma and napoli are put in a position to force sell I dont see how it is a radical analysis to make. Last year, before season started I saw us finishing in 3rd place mainly because our rivals were just not that good. Story is different this year tho. And it is not just Roma and Napoli I am talking about. At the moment Inter and Fiorentina have a project in place as well apart from Juve.

And the 3 most important aspects about their project that they have in place and we dont are :

1) It doesnt revolve around a single player or personality like ours. We have been quite toothless without Balotelli.
2) Serie A has seen the influx of 2 new very good and experienced coaches in form of Benitez and Rudi Garcia.
3) Their coaches have a working strategy in terms of formation and players. We are still working on a blue print.


So i dont see Roma's and Napoli's form as flash in the pan but is actually based on some pretty good fundamentals. Therefore, all the possibilities I laid out are very real and we definitely are at an inflection point with inaction leading to only worse outcomes.

 

[necromancer]

They are real and they are risks, but you fail to consider how Milan may react.

You can't define 2 years as a short-term horizon if you are theorizing on what a 'burning platform' is. A burning platform is a platform that is burning currently, not in 2 years. Any contingency measure like jumping off such a platform has an argument in favour of it only if the platform is actually burning at present.

 

[Casualista]

Ok let me rephrase since you misunderstood. Short term is anything between now and 2 years from now. But that doesnt take away the fact that the issues I raised are right at this moment.

Yes, I considered Milan's reaction. Our main issue at the moment is re-investment regardless of what the bottom lines say. And we haven't invested well enough for the short term or the long term. Case and point - Only Poli was the effective transfer but I believe we are definitely worse off as a team as opposed to last year, even when the injured players return. Our only hopes are Honda and Rami. Honda might bring a bit more stability in attack but we will still suffer the exact same problems in defense.

Now reinvestment does not seem to be happening in the short term which I believe we need the most if we are to have any hope in the future. This is because of our rival's spending (and spending well) that has forced our hand.

All the news of external investment, russian investment, and selling of club has not materialized. And it is safe to say that Milan is not on top of Berlusconi's financial agenda at the moment.

So considering these facts we are clearly, financially and human capital wise, in very big trouble right NOW.

Coming back to the analogy, the fire is already there. If the worst case scenarios take place (no ucl etc etc) that means we got burnt, not that fire is beginning then.

 

[necromancer]

So considering these facts we are clearly, financially and human capital wise, in very big trouble right NOW.

I don't see what else to reply to except this. You outlined some facts (rivals strengthened, Milan had a poor start, austerity), then some potential scenarios (rivals may win, Milan may continue poor performance) and then jump to this statement.

How are we in big trouble financially right NOW? Elucidate.

Unless you can establish this, your analogy continues to be tenuous.

 

[Casualista]

I don't see what else to reply to except this. You outlined some facts (rivals strengthened, Milan had a poor start, austerity), then some potential scenarios (rivals may win, Milan may continue poor performance) and then jump to this statement.

How are we in big trouble financially right NOW? Elucidate.

Unless you can establish this, your analogy continues to be tenuous.

Ok lets try not to speak past each other. I guess it is my mistake with semantics. Replace the word financial with 'reinvestment'.

There really is no point in having a good bottom line if it doesnt yield results and in football it has to be in terms of human capital (among other things). And we just havent reinvested enough in good human capital from our strong bottom line.

And the signs of not reinvesting those gains, which I am assuming is going elsewhere means we need to get in someone who can. And that means taking the jump. We just cannot delay anymore, our rivals have insured it.

 

[necromancer]

Ok lets try not to speak past each other. I guess it is my mistake with semantics. Replace the word financial with 'reinvestment'.

There really is no point in having a good bottom line if it doesnt yield results and in football it has to be in terms of human capital (among other things). And we just havent reinvested enough in good human capital from our strong bottom line.

And the signs of not reinvesting those gains, which I am assuming is going elsewhere means we need to get in someone who can. And that means taking the jump. We just cannot delay anymore, our rivals have insured it.

Agreed on the first part.

Disagreed on the second. It is an ongoing project and the way I look at it, we have reinvested and signed/unearthed some important players in year 1 (Mario, El Shaarawy, De Sciglio, NdJ, Montolivo), potentially a few more in year 2 (Poli, Honda, Rami? Saponara?), and we still need to get in 2-3 more key players. Once the HR needs are met (this could include a change in coach if that's needed), then give it a year to see how the performance is. If it doesn't work out, then and then only does the project fail and then you can bring up these questions.

We do have plenty of financial flexibility to be patient for these 2-3 years while the project is maturing.

 

[Casualista]

Agreed on the first part.

Disagreed on the second. It is an ongoing project and the way I look at it, we have reinvested and signed/unearthed some important players in year 1 (Mario, El Shaarawy, De Sciglio, NdJ, Montolivo), potentially a few more in year 2 (Poli, Honda, Rami? Saponara?), and we still need to get in 2-3 more key players. Once the HR needs are met (this could include a change in coach if that's needed), then give it a year to see how the performance is. If it doesn't work out, then and then only does the project fail and then you can bring up these questions.

We do have plenty of financial flexibility to be patient for these 2-3 years while the project is maturing.

The problem is that I don't see it as nearly enough given the context of our rivals. And on top of that I dont think the right man is at the helm to put together into a team the existing man power. The results will back me here. The lack of depth apart from names you mentioned also point to the fact that we are not prepared for a long drawn season.

Also if we had financial flexibility, I would have expected more spending, especially on the 2-3 key places you mention we need filling, rather than gambling our chances. The fact is, I dont think the money that we made is necessarily for Milan's use at the moment considering that we have potentially taken a far more riskier 30 million dollar gamble with our UCL spot and the tight spot Berlusconi is in in his personal life.

I havent raised any questions as such. I have given observations. And if we do end up not qualifying and in turn selling some of the important players you mentioned then I will see it as a fact that we ignored signs of change when we had to (right now). And the analogy would be proven correct.

 

[necromancer]

And if we do end up not qualifying and in turn selling some of the important players you mentioned then I will see it as a fact that we ignored signs of change when we had to (right now). And the analogy would be proven correct.

Yeah, that would be a good inference to make and your analogy would be closer in such a situation. If CL money goes and the squad is weakened (key players sold and money not reinvested in players like Roma/Napoli did) to keep us afloat, that's a clear sign that the project would have failed. Then I'd be inclined to agree with you that perhaps the time's right for serious external investment and a change in strategy considering the changed football environment. But only then.

 

[Jasper]

not reading any of this

 

[ladro]

Dont think milan is burning right now at least not financially. From a on field performance/table position point of view then yeah, milan is burned well to the ground.

Overall if i had to give an analogy for AC milan the sporting establishment/fininvest branch or whatever its called then i guess its something like be4 the big bang. Or at least be4 an alternative big big bang where there are all these fumes but there is variable that can make the world after the big bang full of life and prosperous or make it a horrible world full of trouble. That variable is qualifying for CL. The way silvio these days doesnt seem much interested in milan i really dont see him reacting well to a potential 30mil+ hole for the next fiscal year. Would probably mean more big player sales

The roster is decent now counting rami and honda. Get a decent goalie and a real coach and i can see this project being just as good as juves........well sadly without the stadium. If they do qualify for CL then theres hope. I guess we will have a good picture come january when the club will release its yearly report, the one with all the senatores, ibra and TSs wages completely written off and the table position will be alot more clear what can still be achieved this season.

 

[Casualista]

Only ambro's wages will be wiped

 

[ladro]

last years report included half year wages for for all the senatores and ibra, TS. i think anyway......

 

[Ashish]

not reading any of this

 

[Sorriso Sempre]

is this at 4.50 godfather iv???what a style

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOIIzD5wJFY

 

[USC]

President Silvio Berlusconi’s “tactical suggestions” were behind Milan’s 1-1 draw with Barcelona, claimed his daughter.

Last night the Rossoneri largely neutralised the Blaugrana in their Champions League encounter, moving to a 4-3-3 with no recognised strikers.

“My father is happy, as some of the tactical suggestions he gave to Massimiliano Allegri were received,” Barbara Berlusconi told ANSA news agency.

What an ego fucking maniac. I can see it now when Italy recovers: "Silvio Berlusconi loves Italy so much that he resigned as prime minister to wake up the country. It was a tough decision, but he made the ultimate sacrifice for country over personal glory."

 

[Jasper]

Thanks for the tactical advice

 

[Ash]

major cunt

 

[Congo Powers]

Thanks for the tactical advice

 

[Armin__m]

Stupid from Barbara to say that to the press, but it`s probably true. Even though he`s senile, he`s still more tacticly astute than Allegri..

 

[Senatore_M84]

Our fearless leader-

 

[Ender]

Stupid from Barbara to say that to the press, but it`s probably true. Even though he`s senile, he`s still more tacticly astute than Allegri..

So let me understand this correctly ... Berlusconi says to the coach "you're gonna play with 4-3-1-2" ... and then says " you know what, scratch that ... I changed idea... I think that you should use 4-3-3, even though I wanted 4-3-1-2 and you wanted to use 4-3-3"

In case someone forgot, Matri was bought exactly because we wanted a 4-3-1-2 and when Balotelli wasn't around, or didn't feel like playing we didn't have a "target penalty area man". In a 4-3-3 the problem is a lot less relevant, since when you play with balls through the wings, Allegri's focus has always been the box to box midfielders that drop inside the penalty area.