The Rumour Commode IV

[Dark Knight]

Deco and Dinho were already huge stars set in their ways and didnt want to have to put in that much work that is why they had to go.

And do you think Pep could do what he did if he was at Bilbao? Him going to a different team you dont know how much money he will need unless you are going to give him 7-10 years to reform youth system.

And also have a Messi dropped in his lap.

Same messi that argentina and rjikaard had. People cant criticize messi for just performing with barca and then not give Pep credit for that. And as i said your example about bilbao and pep i say to you did sacchi achieve as much with parma as he did with milan? No.. does that mean that his milan work should be disregarded too as he had got maldini baresi van basten and gullit etc thrown into his lap?

 

[Ash]

I hate Barca as much as the next guy,but thats a load of bollocks.Spain have the best youth system in the whole world,the way they train players is matched by none currently.

Dont look at Barca only,look at the youth products that are coming every year from all the rest of the teams.Spanish players have been dominating Europe/the world and club competitions for quite sometime now.

Now do i think if Pep comes here we will have instant results in the youth dep?No,but its a damn good start to bring coaches from there who know the system.We should do what the rest of Europe did in the 90`s,i .e barrow everything they can from the Italians.

No offense...but that's a load of BS. Have you even seen Germany?

France aint half bad either

 

[Az.]

No offense...but that's a load of BS. Have you even seen Germany?

France aint half bad either

Yes i did,and there second.Spaniards are world champions,European Champions,and dominating the CL and Europa League.So yeah i would say its not BS at all.

 

[Dottore Joey]

Germany and France have really good youth System but at the moment Spain wins by mile.

The Whole Bilbao team are almost just Basques for example.

 

[Master Smurf]

Same messi that argentina and rjikaard had. People cant criticize messi for just performing with barca and then not give Pep credit for that. And as i said your example about bilbao and pep i say to you did sacchi achieve as much with parma as he did with milan? No.. does that mean that his milan work should be disregarded too as he had got maldini baresi van basten and gullit etc thrown into his lap?

How long did Rijkaard have him, how old was he????

The Argentina argument should also soon go away. I personally think he is currently playing fine for Argentina and had a good WC but ran into some keepers who played out of their mind vs Argentina.

I am not saying that Pep isnt good, I am just saying that all the stars aligned for him and that probably wont happen in another situation. You are making him out to be the Grand Puba of coaching.

For all the hate on Don Fabio - he has gone to different teams and won, Mourinho - same thing. Ferguson - built several teams at Utd and won. Lets just see Pep do more, possibly in a different setup before we annoint him.

And I think my argument still stands - if he comes here, do we have the talent out of the box to switch our style or will we have to invest a huge amount of time or money.

 

[Polotelli]

I don't care about other countries and their youth system, but in Italy it's just terrible

 

[Dark Knight]

.

 

[milanator]

But why care about it? The best will make it anyway, all others are of no use for us and for the squadra. maybe the best talents might get out better by doing the rocky way.

 

[Spielberg]

But why care about it? The best will make it anyway, all others are of no use for us and for the squadra. maybe the best talents might get out better by doing the rocky way.

A team isn'nt made up only by the best. You need good squad players, or just players who have and know how to use their few strengths. If we could develop our own players, millions would be saved on transfer fees and wages every year, and we could spend our money on the best players available. Instead, we have to buy everything.

 

[NVD'ACM]

Alaba >>> alba
:d

 

[USC]

Juventus will get a star Striker, 100%. We better get Tevez + 2 midfielders, or you can kiss the next 2 years goodbye

I don't think that they will get Cavani, but certainly there exists the possibility of them bringing in someone to elevate them.

Berlusconi is not your regulation sugar daddy tantrum-throwing owner. He is an intelligent man who understands football very well, perhaps better than several coaches and directors around.

He has been with the game for decades now, and very successful decades to boot.

If he had the instinct to hire Sacchi and Capello and Ancelotti, and give them the players required to produce good-looking football which won titles as well, I'm sure he'll continue doing that. Whether it be with Allegri or with someone else.

All of this assuming that he hasn't turned senile yet. If he has, then there's no guarantee on anything.

Disagreed.

He reminds me of al davis, in NFL.

At ONE point he understood football well. But his times passed. He thinks like he's in the 1980s with regards to football. Get star, build around them etc. etc.

Senatore used a similar analogy to the one that I was going to present. Silvio is utilizing the 1980's business model, both in football and general commerce. Because one was successful does NOT make you successful, if that makes sense to you.

It's the old adage that past performance does not predict future success. Right now, the market in football has changed, and Berlusconi is NOT adjusting. He has unrealistic expectations, that quite frankly, are commensurate with his political leanings.

The prime example was him paying the debt of the club. What was the interest rate on it? Debt = good when it costs less than the capital needed to finance something. I would much rather trim the wage bill, sell dead weight, run an efficient club, and leverage ourselves, not to the extreme but to the point of competition, and win.

 

[USC]

Re: the Pep situation.

He is only overrated because of the talent that he has. The thing is, though, that he brought in that talent has helped make them great. He has his system, buys players for that system and runs it cohesively. The reason that he has been successful is that they DON'T buy replacement level players. They buy players to fit into the style of play that has made them successful.

Now ask yourselves about Milan. What have they done recently? Have they built to a system? No, they've bought cheap deals and tried to make it work.

Cohesion = success.

Edit -

Why do you think AVB failed at Chelsea? He has a VERY unique style of play, one that did not suit the players that he was given. Sound familiar?

 

[milanator]

A team isn'nt made up only by the best. You need good squad players, or just players who have and know how to use their few strengths. If we could develop our own players, millions would be saved on transfer fees and wages every year, and we could spend our money on the best players available. Instead, we have to buy everything.

I think Bosman transfers are the better option for squadplayers, because you get players with more expirience, this can make up a lot for quality, and its not like we get zero squadplayers with the current way. Even our transferbusiness on squadplayers is decent and lowcost (Noce, Muntari, Yepes, Emmanuelson in an ideal Milan). We lack WC talents, but that has not that much to do with your youthsystem in my opinion, its a matter of luck and good scouting, but when you bring real worldbeater talents in, they will make it in any youthsystem.

I think this youthsystem debate is a much bigger issue for small and midtable clubs than for milan.

 

[JuanShoe]

I think Bosman transfers are the better option for squadplayers, because you get players with more expirience, this can make up a lot for quality, and its not like we get zero squadplayers with the current way. Even our transferbusiness on squadplayers is decent and lowcost (Noce, Muntari, Yepes, Emmanuelson in an ideal Milan). We lack WC talents, but that has not that much to do with your youthsystem in my opinion, its a matter of luck and good scouting, but when you bring real worldbeater talents in, they will make it in any youthsystem.

I think this youthsystem debate is a much bigger issue for small and midtable clubs than for milan.

Sorry but that's just nonsesne. How exactly do you expect Milan to conquer Europe without a youth system? Do you know something we don't? Because unless Berlu is going to go crazy and give Milan his fortune or there is a rich oil tycoon in the wing it isn't going to happen. The 4 semi finalist are either teams with fantastic youth set-ups (Barca and Bayern) or who have cost a fortune to assemble (Real and Chelsea)

 

[Master Smurf]

@JuanShoe - Actually all 4 spend big bucks but I take your point.

 

[VultureNut]

What do you think the chances of a clearout at Madrid this summer?

 

[Ash]

What do you think the chances of a clearout at Madrid this summer?

Something that wouldn't bother us, cauz we won't be able to afford any of them

OR

As was the case in 2009, sign the shit ones instead of the good ones

 

[Sage]

I personally will agree to whatever berlusconi decides, if he believes a new world class coach will help the team, I'm 100% behind him.


eagerly anticipating the summer market.

 

[milanator]

Sorry but that's just nonsesne. How exactly do you expect Milan to conquer Europe without a youth system? Do you know something we don't? Because unless Berlu is going to go crazy and give Milan his fortune or there is a rich oil tycoon in the wing it isn't going to happen. The 4 semi finalist are either teams with fantastic youth set-ups (Barca and Bayern) or who have cost a fortune to assemble (Real and Chelsea)

I never talked about no youthsystem, my point was that we wouldn´t benefit more than from our current one because the number of wc or very good talents is limited and they will make it even in our youth system.
We need only the highest quality, not quantity output, we have the name to sign good players on occassions, something smaller clubs don´t have.

You can´t conquer europe with youth, not even Barca is doing that, its important and crucial to have experience.

 

[Curupira]

I personally will agree to whatever berlusconi decides, if he believes a new world class coach will help the team, I'm 100% behind him.


eagerly anticipating the summer market.

Who are you and what did you do to Sage?

 

[idiavoli]

Re: the Pep situation.

He is only overrated because of the talent that he has. The thing is, though, that he brought in that talent has helped make them great. He has his system, buys players for that system and runs it cohesively. The reason that he has been successful is that they DON'T buy replacement level players. They buy players to fit into the style of play that has made them successful.

Now ask yourselves about Milan. What have they done recently? Have they built to a system? No, they've bought cheap deals and tried to make it work.

Precisely.

He had Eto'o, but wanted Ibra. They paid 45M + Eto'o for him.

He didn't like Ibra. They gave him away for practically free, then paid 40M for Sanchez.

They already had Xavi + Iniesta + Thiago in midfield. He wanted Cesc. They paid 40M for him.

Seriously, there are MANY coaches that could achieve similar levels of success with that kind of spending power. (Also many that could blow it all away and not get anywhere)

Ironically, look at the one cheap deal they went after... Afellay. How did that pan out?

 

[IKE]

Refferess mistakes

...



Aparently we are going to make some file with refs mistakes against us....



About this ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzvv92OFwmI&feature=youtu.be


5 mistakes...all big ones


..

 

[idiavoli]

We scored big with Ibra for so cheap. We scored big with Cassano (but so unlucky for his injury) and Mexes for free. Prince was a good utility signing. Robinho and Van Bommel were also good temporary solutions while we rebuilt towards a Scudetto.

But the rest aren't panning out if our goal is to be a world class team. Urby, Aquilani, Muntari, Nocerino, etc... They're all just BODIES we need because we don't have enough players because everyone else is injured or sucks... because they're old - Pippo/Seedorf/Ambro/Rino/Zammy/etc.

We've done amazingly well for our limited budget. If B is going to insist on running a lean shop, that's fine, but let's please be really smart about how we invest our limited funds. Buy quality players that we need... instead of buying a handful of average players that either suck or end up injured.

For example, sell Taiwo and Urby at 6M each and sign Kolarov or Criscito.
Save the 6M on Aqua and add 6M to sign Eriksen.
Save the 8M on Maxi, sell Robinho for 15M, add 2M and buy Jovetic.

 

[Senatore_M84]

We scored big with Ibra for so cheap. We scored big with Cassano (but so unlucky for his injury) and Mexes for free. Prince was a good utility signing. Robinho and Van Bommel were also good temporary solutions while we rebuilt towards a Scudetto.

But the rest aren't panning out if our goal is to be a world class team. Urby, Aquilani, Muntari, Nocerino, etc... They're all just BODIES we need because we don't have enough players because everyone else is injured or sucks... because they're old - Pippo/Seedorf/Ambro/Rino/Zammy/etc.

We've done amazingly well for our limited budget. If B is going to insist on running a lean shop, that's fine, but let's please be really smart about how we invest our limited funds. Buy quality players that we need... instead of buying a handful of average players that either suck or end up injured.

But even in getting these cheap solutions... their wages end up higher which run is into deficit.


So it's not always so straight forward.


Not to mention older players carry higher wages.

Signing Zambrotta was the height of bad business for example. Good player for us for a year or two, but he was still 31 and demanding high wages (which he earned for his name) and a long contract.

-


Galliani drives me insane w/ wages. Flamini is a prime example. Could have been sold 2 years ago for 10 mil. We could have bought a better fit replacement for the money, and had a player on 1/3 the wage

 

[Christian]

But even in getting these cheap solutions... their wages end up higher which run is into deficit.


So it's not always so straight forward.


Not to mention older players carry higher wages.

Signing Zambrotta was the height of bad business for example. Good player for us for a year or two, but he was still 31 and demanding high wages (which he earned for his name) and a long contract.

-


Galliani drives me insane w/ wages. Flamini is a prime example. Could have been sold 2 years ago for 10 mil. We could have bought a better fit replacement for the money, and had a player on 1/3 the wage

oh really? Speculation, speculation... if we could've done that we probably would have. It's like all the speculation that we could've signed 5 different top talents if only this and that player would've left, we really have no clue what's going on.

I do agree on Zambrotta though, that was bad buisness. Obviously free players/older players are gonna demand more wages, and in the last 5 years this has been terrible, terrible bussiness for us. But don't forget that there's a time, not so long ago, when this kind of approach made us top Europe... so it's really not so black and white as you make it seem.

 

[IL-Capitano]

Lots of valid points regarding building a squad. It seems to me the basis of success for spanish, german and french clubs revolves around finding the balance between a successfully run youth system, keeping your better players (ridding yourself of the less effective players) and most importantly getting in the WC players who raise the level of the team. Keeping all of this balanced requires serious Money and getting the right people, ask yourself if Barca and Real did not have the financial power would they be the same we all know the answer.

So your youth system properly run develops talent that you hope will make the grade in the first squad. It works a bit like cannon fodder they will go through a lot! of players, some players will make it others will be cut loose and find a career elsewhere. The ones who do make the grade will get playing time one of two ways by playing as a sub in games or getting the occasional start in the first team or if they are that good they break into the first team. As for ridding yourself of players who prove ineffectual its just how it is, if you can't contribute as needed.... need i say more.

Raising the game to Trophy winning level you need the WC players they make the difference but come at a cost and like it or not require investment. They also have to be the right WC players.

Now we all know too well Milan's recent transfer policy, it has had its positives but in equal measure it negatives. Money will make a big difference but is not always the answer to success. It is also about getting the right players what i am posting is obvious we all know this. It is for this reason the youth system, squad rotation/up-keep and transfer windows need to be much clearer and effective than they have been which means reviewing all the elements deciding what is working what is not working. Finding that balance though is very tricky. Think what you will of this post but for me Milan really need to think about where they want to be? what needs to happen to get there? and commit to it because if they don't.....!

 

[Senatore_M84]

oh really? Speculation, speculation... if we could've done that we probably would have. It's like all the speculation that we could've signed 5 different top talents if only this and that player would've left, we really have no clue what's going on.

I do agree on Zambrotta though, that was bad buisness. Obviously free players/older players are gonna demand more wages, and in the last 5 years this has been terrible, terrible bussiness for us. But don't forget that there's a time, not so long ago, when this kind of approach made us top Europe... so it's really not so black and white as you make it seem.

Tottenham interest in flamini was solid. Same with Lyon. We didn't want to sell him. I'm saying basically we made no effort to force him out, like we do with all players, which, while noble, is also galliani's achilles heel. Making tough decisions. but he likes Flamini as a person and he's ok player so whatever goes thru galliani's mind

Well it's not all free/older players. Some like MVB, Cafu took reasonable wages. What I'm saying is 'free' is never free. Their are tradeoffs.

 

[Ash]

Tottenham interest in flamini was solid. Same with Lyon. We didn't want to sell him. I'm saying basically we made no effort to force him out, like we do with all players, which, while noble, is also galliani's achilles heel. Making tough decisions. but he likes Flamini as a person and he's ok player so whatever goes thru galliani's mind

Well it's not all free/older players. Some like MVB, Cafu took reasonable wages. What I'm saying is 'free' is never free. Their are tradeoffs.

Should have sold Pirlo too when Chelsea came knocking

 

[Christian]

Tottenham interest in flamini was solid. Same with Lyon. We didn't want to sell him. I'm saying basically we made no effort to force him out, like we do with all players, which, while noble, is also galliani's achilles heel. Making tough decisions. but he likes Flamini as a person and he's ok player so whatever goes thru galliani's mind

Well it's not all free/older players. Some like MVB, Cafu took reasonable wages. What I'm saying is 'free' is never free. Their are tradeoffs.

I don't believe in the Tottenham/Lyon thing. Most because Flamini would've most likely been the top earner in either club, making a deal very complicated. Your second point is absolutly true though, and Flamini is the best example of it.

 

[Senatore_M84]

Should have sold Pirlo too when Chelsea came knocking

If the offer was decent and we could get a replacement, sure.

If you're not going to spend, and you're running a loss. Need to get creative, ie sell and buy.