The Rumour Commode XLIV: Paragliding to Piolistine Crisis

Rigore to save your life: choose your player


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jawz10

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Conte used a 343 at Spurs, I don't think Conte coming here means Leao leaves.
I hope we play that formation regardless of who comes. We have perfect players for 3 at the back; Theo can play either wide in midfield or defense of that setup, Bennacer/Adli/Reindeers are perfect for double pivots inside of a four man midfield (although it would still be nice to have some steel there). The only question mark is Rafa and IMO the answer is he has to play as the striker with two SS/AM behind. Two of Adli, Pulisic, Chuk...CDK? A guy can dream.

---------------------------- Rafa
--------- Pulisic -------------- Adli/Chuk
Theo ------ Bennacer --- Reindeer ---- Musah
---- Tomori -------- Thiaw --------- Kalulu
------------------------ Maignan
 

papaberlu

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look, it has to be difficult as true long time milan supporters to want conte...he is juve.
is his style...3-5-2 outdated? can he adapt, does he have new idea's? will he cheat (he is juve)?
--or--is he just what is needed for the final maturation of theo, leo and other young players, so that we are better prepaired when the stadium is built?

i remember him as a hustler with some grit in the midfield...appreciating a DM would be a plus.
wonder his impression of adli?
I actually don't know where Adli would fit under Conte. Adli seems like a hard worker though so maybe Conte would like him

Reijnders, Musah, and RLC I see fitting in nicely

A strong DM and CF would be the #1 priority for a Conte arrival
 

Deep Fried Pizza & Chips

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So what theyre saying is Boban and Maldini to return in the summer with Mbappe as player/ director and Elon Musk's financial backing...

And we'll see the first ever AI and algorithm based coaching staff at a football club?
 

Jivara

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Conte will bring us best from Leao and Theo. We will be strong fuckers in Serie A
I'd like to imagine that he will teach Leao how to hold up play like a proper striker, to play with his back to goal. This is one of the trademarks of Conte teams and Lautaro was not good at it before Conte came in. If Leao can add that to his array of skills he will become a consistent +20 goal contributer per season.
 

Jivara

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I understand the appeal of a manager who puts a huge emphasis on fitness, physical prep, and bringing in staffers who prevent injuries--especially after the last four plus years of Pioli's track record in these areas.

However, I don't think our team lacks discipline, they lack organization. Our players are trying, they work hard, they try hard, but the lack of organization hurts us--in delicate moments in matches, to keep our shape, and when on the front foot to provide a direction to maximize their talents.
Yes you are right, it's not really a discipline issue, more an organizational problem
 

Omer

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I for one would think this as a disaster. Milan should not be some toy for the super rich.
Berlusconi suggesting formations and line-ups was a nightmare.

the beauty of current ownership is that they want to hire professionals to run the club, while they manage the money aspect.
this is why, i dont get the critism over signings of ownership, unless it is because of who ownership has hired as managers.

Man City has hired top professionals to run the club. It's nothing like Berlusconi management. Also PIF at Newcastle has done very well in a short amount of time for a club that just before was fighting relegation. Girona also owned by City group is 1st in Liga without crazy sending.

Where do you get this idea that the rich Arabs want to run the clubs as a toy? The sheikhs / princes aren't personally choosing players and formations! Their investment funds already have top notch professionals. And then when they buy a club, it's also run extremely professionally, more professionally than Cardinale runs Milan.

Cardinale / RB have just been good in progressing the stadium project. In other aspects they haven't really progressed the club from Elliott Milan.
 

Samaldinho

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I just wanted to ask, how's Pioli doing in the CL this year?

And we got lucky, REAL lucky lady year, that Napoli and Tottenham played into our hands... That wasn't a "Pioli masterclass".

Conte's issues are a worry, I'm not advocating his hiring, just playing devil's advocate...
It's not that long, but whatever, to keep things tidy as I'm pretty far back.
I don't think we got lucky last year in the CL.

Against Chelsea, we played with our usual horrific injury crisis, and the red card for Tomori was a laughable decision. However, we played well.

If Pioli had played his 424 against Spurs, we would have lost. If he played the 433 he used against Napoli, I think we would have beat them. The fact he used his "I'm scared now 343" was an accidentally good adjustment on his part, because Spurs under Conte were not going to push to attack us.

Napoli was no fluke. Napoli wanted to beat us. This was their best season and most people (not just here, around the world) were convinced Napoli would make short work of us. Some even spoke about Napoli being a candidate to win the CL and Napoli were roundly regarded as one of the strongest teams in the CL last year.

The tactics that Pioli chose against Napoli were the ones I wish he had used more often, but he refuses. His vision (lol) is this 424, 505 bullshit. That's what he wants to do, that's how he wants to play.

Pioli has the ability to utilize his team to its maximum, he just... refuses to, on ideological grounds. Last year, against Juve, in the first game, he deploys Pobega from the start as a CAM to just obliterate their attempts to counter and build play from the middle. We cruised to victory. Impressive setup, smart tactics.

Did we see that used again? Nope.

In the second leg at Juve, they are playing the same way, and while we won, 1-0, thanks to a masterful Giroud header, but did we use a similar tactic? Nope. Pioli used his 424 and we didn't play well at all.

That's the issue I have with Pioli the last two years. There is an obvious way to maximize the resources at his disposal, and it requires a major crisis (or multiple) for him to do the right thing. Or he does it, randomly, like against PSG or Napoli or Juve, but then... doesn't figure that he should use it more often. Hell, the best period of play was when we had a more solid CAM (Hakan) and his answer was to use an SS instead in that spot--even though post-Hakan, our best performances were with someone playing a more "midfieldery" CAM than an SS-style.
 

Raz

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j8MUlZ.gif


Goodbye Frodo and Gandalf's intellectually challenged cousin. You won't be missed
 
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Samaldinho

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Like we are going to go far in ucl anyway. First win multiple scudetti. Build a bloody team and then we can discuss about ucl.
We were in the CL semi-final last year. The idea that the CL is an impossibility is weird to me.

Chelsea won the CL with Edouard Mendy in goal, Timo Werner as their starting striker, Kai Havertz starting and scoring the game winner, and Azpi as one of their CBs... against Man City. Oh, and they subbed on Pulisic (who helped them get to the final with a super important goal)--the rest of their squad was nothing impressive. They had some amazing players, like Kante, Jorginho in great form, Thiago Silva. But like... so do we, we have really strong players in our squad, too.

Did they pay a lot of money for those players? Yes. Yes they did. But many of those players were laughably bad, and weren't worth it.

I dunno man. Conte's European record is pretty damning.
 

Samaldinho

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Leao always played better when we played in counter-attack, when he has space to run through player, we even saw what he can do when he took the ball last game and won a penalty with that run.

Conte plays in counter attack, if there is someone like Zirkze dropping back and open the game, Leao will have a lot of space and he will show his skills more that way.

One thing for sure Theo is going to be a beast as a wingback.

Conte has only Plan A if things go right way he is a great manager but when things turns the opposite direction then he creates a lot of drama, the only thing im afraid of him.
Our only established tactic is to play on the counter. We haven't seen Leao in full-flight while our team was at its best, as the fabled "lockdown era" was when Leao was still growing and young.

I would love to see Leao have the ball fed to him, on purpose, in front of him to run onto, like a through ball, rather than to his feet, where we ask him to produce something out of nothing.

Think of the 3-2 goal when we beat Inter. He's at a stand-still, and then scored that goal.
 

icculus71

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Man City has hired top professionals to run the club. It's nothing like Berlusconi management. Also PIF at Newcastle has done very well in a short amount of time for a club that just before was fighting relegation. Girona also owned by City group is 1st in Liga without crazy sending.

Where do you get this idea that the rich Arabs want to run the clubs as a toy? The sheikhs / princes aren't personally choosing players and formations! Their investment funds already have top notch professionals. And then when they buy a club, it's also run extremely professionally, more professionally than Cardinale runs Milan.

Cardinale / RB have just been good in progressing the stadium project. In other aspects they haven't really progressed the club from Elliott Milan.
good points and I am not talking from a nationality perspective. I do concerned over ownership that "think" they know best.
Also, I am not a fan of purchased teams...being from america, I hold nothing but contempt for teams like the NY Yankees.
PSG is a souless wasteland...
I appriciate the "earn it" attitude we currently have and am willing to wait to the tree to bare fruit.
pretty sure i am in minority on this, but i promise that fruit is sweeter.
 

Samaldinho

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I hope we play that formation regardless of who comes. We have perfect players for 3 at the back; Theo can play either wide in midfield or defense of that setup, Bennacer/Adli/Reindeers are perfect for double pivots inside of a four man midfield (although it would still be nice to have some steel there). The only question mark is Rafa and IMO the answer is he has to play as the striker with two SS/AM behind. Two of Adli, Pulisic, Chuk...CDK? A guy can dream.

---------------------------- Rafa
--------- Pulisic -------------- Adli/Chuk
Theo ------ Bennacer --- Reindeer ---- Musah
---- Tomori -------- Thiaw --------- Kalulu
------------------------ Maignan
I'm pretty ideologically against back three systems. I think it removes an additional player that you can use in attack. While there could be games where we use a back three, I'd rather our base shape be rooted in a back four. Pep's interpretation would required CBs who are more comfortable on the ball, and only Thiaw displays that comfort consistently.

I'm not sure I would want to see Rafa alone, up top. I also don't like Musah as a RWB and think Pulisic does better (for us) as a RW than as a LW.

Okafor has scored some important goals, but when he's played, sometimes he is invisible, he needs to get more involved. I think he should try to be a striker, he seems much more comfortable with his finishing, while he hasn't shown (yet) the ability to provide service as a winger. Okafor as a backup LW could be a good, but we need a striker more than anything.

I actually really like the 4231, where it's more-or-less a 433, but with our CAM being a midfielder when necessary--essentially how we played against Napoli last year. If Bennacer can reach his potential, I think we have a great player for our DM spot. Injuries are becoming increasingly a concern, unfortunately, but even if they weren't, we need a more natural DM for certain games (to close things out, etc)--but I don't think we lack steel, I think we lack organization.

A rotation between Bennacer, Tiji, Musah, Adli, RLC, and a DM in our three midfield spots would be great.

I think our squad is actually very strong, but we need a RB, a ST, a DM, and backup LB, backup RW.
 

Neruda

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To all the guys refusing to admit that Pioli is a fraud and saboteur - please, show me one, just one, coach from XXI century who fields WEEK AFTER WEEK, GAME AFTER GAME a squad with no defensive midfielder, with no midfielder with defensive-oriented instructions, with three midfielders instructed to dribble until they die, with no pressing at all.
It's a formation taken from times of Pele and Garrincha. It's not just outdated, it's ancient. It couldn't work and doesn't work at all.
And all of that is coming from a guy who gave us post-covid Milan. He isn't an idiot, he knows what worked with this team - and advertently decided to set up a formation completely different, it's like a yin to a yang which was our best football played with Hakan and Kessie.

You, Pioli's defenders, don't want to admit that he is a saboteur just because you can't digest the idea of having such a fraud in this club. You act like calciopoli has never happened, like there weren't any frauds or pests in this league, who acted entirely against ethics and good interest of their feigned employers.
There were referees who acted against league because of their personal interest, there were players who acted against their clubs because of their personal interes. There is a coach who acts against Milan because of his personal interest. Face it and admit it.
curious to know what pioli personal interests are ?
 

Alo88

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I understand the appeal of a manager who puts a huge emphasis on fitness, physical prep, and bringing in staffers who prevent injuries--especially after the last four plus years of Pioli's track record in these areas.

However, I don't think our team lacks discipline, they lack organization. Our players are trying, they work hard, they try hard, but the lack of organization hurts us--in delicate moments in matches, to keep our shape, and when on the front foot to provide a direction to maximize their talents.

There's been a new video on Pellegattis channel today where he had his weekly talk with former Serie A match analyst Luca Diddi.

It's again a super informative talk. It got even a little bit heated this time. The sauce of this 20ish minute video is basically this: What we lack is not organization per sé, it's balance. But with the current squad, balance is not possible, no matter the formation, system or organization.

During our Scudetto season, especially in the final stretch, Leao would be basically freed from all defensive duties. We could sustain that because in midfield, Kessie was covering and giving us balance in the midfield as well as Saelemaekers or Messias on the right wing. Usually, when retaining possession, Kessie would then move out wide on the left, Saele or Messias would cover the right flank, while Leao and Giroud would be the only ones staing upfront, forming kind of a very narrow 4-4-2.

Last year, we lost Kessie and didn't replace his characteristics. The only players left to give us balance were Saele and a Messias in poor form. We saw that system crumble already. This year it's even worse: We play Giroud, Leao, RLC, Pulisic, Adli and Reijnders at the same time. That's only sustainable if those players are as gifted as Barcelonas 2008-2012 squad (their players were so good at keeping ball possession while scoring goals they barely needed to worry about balance) or your squad is fit as fuck and able to run a lot. We saw that in the first few months of this season, we looked intimidating, but as soon as the fuel was empty, injuries hit us hard and since then the team hasn't physically recovered, thus resulting in us looking so inbalanced.

Now all of that isn't particularly new to folks here. The reason I'm quoting you is because you mentioned organization. Diddi was asked by Pellegatti how he'd solve our current problem if he was in Piolis shoes. He then said since Leao is not good at doing both phases (specifically mentioning that's not an excuse for him, it's just an explanation) by getting a player who can give us balance, whether it's a midfielder like Kessie and/or a maybe not so shiny, but functional winger like Saele and drop one of RLC, Puli, Adli or Reijnders. Pellegatti then replied no no, tell me what you'd do with this squad. Diddi then reluctantly replied the only thing we could try is to change the current module, but truth is even that wouldn't help much, the bitter truth is with this squad, there is no balance, and he can't figure out why Pioli not only doesn't seem willing to acknowledge that but he even publicly sais in his interviews that this is how he intentionally wanted his squad build.

Carlo, you're asking me how I'd make Spaghetti with tomato sauce, he said, the answer is there are no Spaghettis, I can't tell you how to make Spaghetti without Spaghettis.
 

Samaldinho

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If people want to talk about Conte's European performances, it's not just in the CL, look at how he did with Spurs in the Conference League. He lost to Mura with Spurs, and finished behind Vitesse and Rennes. Y'know, powerhouses. Or with his Inter side finishing bottom of the group to Real Madrid, Borussia Monchengladbach, and Shaktar Donetsk. Not only did I surprisingly spell Monchengladbach correctly the first try (but incorrectly this second time) but they finished 8th in the Bundesliga that year. Just in case you were wondering.

Allegri elevated Juve in Europe after taking over from Conte on short notice.

Also, why should Conte get the credit for Inter's success under Inzaghi? Success being almost winning the CL (a trophy very desirable to Juve and Inter fans). Why not give credit to Spaletti who gave Conte that base, if we're going to talk about foundations?

Why isn't the fact that teams have elevated after he leaves a sign of him underachieving rather than some sort of "foundational structure" that he sets? He's been at Juve, Chelsea, Inter, and Spurs--and yet he hasn't been able to go past "setting the foundations" stage?

He's won titles, no doubt. At Chelsea, they spent a lot, and didn't play in Europe and won the league. The following year, they got 5th. And he was fired. When he took over Juve, he did a good job, even if his first title was obviously stolen from Milan, he took the team from a pretty crappy place and brought them up. Good for him. That was over 10 years ago.

I'm not saying Conte is a horrible manager, in fact, short-term, he does a good job. But past the first year(ish) he complains, doesn't take responsibility, throws his players under the bus, throws clubs under the bus, everything to avoid accountability. He couldn't even finish out the season with Spurs--why is that not a bigger concern when discussing Conte?

He's done poorly in Europe too often, in too many different places, with teams that have almost routinely done better after he left.

So instead of trying to say he's "laid foundations" maybe he's done worse than he should have and other managers, like Allegri, like Inzaghi, like Ange are better than him and have gotten more from the squads than he has, rather than it being some sort of "foundation" that he's set. I feel like at this point it would look more like he's held teams back, more than anything.
 

Jivara

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I'm pretty ideologically against back three systems. I think it removes an additional player that you can use in attack. While there could be games where we use a back three, I'd rather our base shape be rooted in a back four. Pep's interpretation would required CBs who are more comfortable on the ball, and only Thiaw displays that comfort consistently.

I'm not sure I would want to see Rafa alone, up top. I also don't like Musah as a RWB and think Pulisic does better (for us) as a RW than as a LW.

Okafor has scored some important goals, but when he's played, sometimes he is invisible, he needs to get more involved. I think he should try to be a striker, he seems much more comfortable with his finishing, while he hasn't shown (yet) the ability to provide service as a winger. Okafor as a backup LW could be a good, but we need a striker more than anything.

I actually really like the 4231, where it's more-or-less a 433, but with our CAM being a midfielder when necessary--essentially how we played against Napoli last year. If Bennacer can reach his potential, I think we have a great player for our DM spot. Injuries are becoming increasingly a concern, unfortunately, but even if they weren't, we need a more natural DM for certain games (to close things out, etc)--but I don't think we lack steel, I think we lack organization.

A rotation between Bennacer, Tiji, Musah, Adli, RLC, and a DM in our three midfield spots would be great.

I think our squad is actually very strong, but we need a RB, a ST, a DM, and backup LB, backup RW.
Why back up RW? Did you lose faith in Chuk already? I think he will come good in the end
 

ACM14061988

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Suma said for sure in summer a CF, a CB and a couple of midfielders will arrive, the management too want to spend a lot but you do that in summer not in January, he also said no one is talking about him but Cuenca is a huge talent and next season he will help the first team. He also said the matter with Conte is not the wage but Milan has choosen to be a club that if we do well is thanks to everyone and if we do bad is fault of everyone
 
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