Champions League Thread [2010-2011]

[Calum1903]

Man Utd. would need to start Nani, surely? It's a one-off game.

 

[acmilan4ever]

I don't think Scholes will play. He's not mobile enough and is too reckless in the tackle. Seeing how Barceloan crowd the ref he'd be booked within no time and eventually sent off.

Fletcher has missed a lot of football recently, I think it's been atleast two months, but he should be back at the weekend against Arsenal.

I think Valencia will start ahead of Nani because he's much better defensively. Valencia started away to Chelsea and away to Shalke so that tells me that Fergie thinks that aswell.

I'd actually prefer to see Valencia and Nani as opposed to Park and Nani, because Valencia has to play. He'd be very important tactically.

If we have Rooney in midfield like he was against Chelsea then his match up with Xavi would be awesome.

Agreed about Scholes and i think Fletcher will be one of the protagonists of your midfield so i hope for you hes fully ready for it.

I also agree about Valencia being better defensively but his pacey, direct attacking play can be used better if he came off the bench, just a thought.

Rooney i think would struggle against Barca in that role because 1) he likes to get the ball there and start the attacks, which he wont because they might not have enough of the ball and 2) in accordance to reason 1, if they dont have the ball than he can grow as frustrated as Scholes and dish out a bad tackle. I think you may need Park or Anderson to start there instead of Rooney and play him out wide on the left. I've seen him cross many times before from that side and Chica is a good header of the ball as well.

Nevertheless it will be an interesting final, just hope that both teams have fully fit and available squads.

 

[Sage]

The thing with Ibra and Villa is that one of them is the better player, the other one can adapt better. Villa is well suited for Barca's play, because he's willing to take on a "passive" role. Just like Henry started playing second fiddle when he moved to Barca and thus wasn't as good as in Arsenal, the same will happen to Villa. You won't see him in the same form he was in Valencia again.

The problem with Ibra in Barca was that he demanded to much attention on the pitch, he wasn't willing to be Messi's nr2 and I respect him for that. He did in Barca just what he's doing in Milan now, taking control of the game.

Ibra's transfer to Barca is really a mystery, why buy a CF when you're planning to play Messi as one?

messi wasnt playing as a CF last season when Ibra was playing, its only this season he moved to CF.

I like Villa alot, considering hes playing as a LW for the first time in his club career, hes doing pretty well, id imagine ibra would have flopped badly if he played as a LW.


in the CL, i would pick villa over ibra every single time.

 

[fredrik9]

The thing with Ibra and Villa is that one of them is the better player, the other one can adapt better. Villa is well suited for Barca's play, because he's willing to take on a "passive" role. Just like Henry started playing second fiddle when he moved to Barca and thus wasn't as good as in Arsenal, the same will happen to Villa. You won't see him in the same form he was in Valencia again.

The problem with Ibra in Barca was that he demanded to much attention on the pitch, he wasn't willing to be Messi's nr2 and I respect him for that. He did in Barca just what he's doing in Milan now, taking control of the game.

Ibra's transfer to Barca is really a mystery, why buy a CF when you're planning to play Messi as one?

Wise words. But let me just add that as Villa who has played all his life in Spain, AND the Spanish NT with 8/11 Barca players should have an easier learning curve than someone who never played the system, the country or the language.

 

[Sven]

Why does Guardiola allow his team to do this.

Doesnt he know its shameful for the game.

It's a bad example. I fear that kids will now start to simulate contact with the walking crowd on the streets and dive to the floor. It can be dangerous.

 

[Trillske]

Ibra's transfer to Barca is really a mystery, why buy a CF when you're planning to play Messi as one?

Not sure it was planned, Messi got more room the second half of the season. And performed so good in that role that the team was more and more built to fit him. Even though Messi was awesome the year before it as well, its easy to forget his development and role in the team is pretty new still.

It's a bad example. I fear that kids will now start to simulate contact with the walking crowd on the streets and dive to the floor. It can be dangerous.

Babys already do though. Much like the likes of Pedro, they often stop for a moment and take some time to figure out if its a good time to cry or not. And much like the likes of Pedro, they allways find it is.

messi wasnt playing as a CF last season when Ibra was playing, its only this season he moved to CF.

He was though, thats when Ibra started to have a really hard time. No coincidence. On Paper, Messi was midfield, hence the "false nr9". In reality, he was CF.

 

[Dinar]

 

[acmilan4ever]

Man Utd. would need to start Nani, surely? It's a one-off game.

I tend to agree and bring Valencia on in the second half. His direct attacking play could hurt Barca...

 

[Kalac#16]

Ibra's transfer to Barca is really a mystery, why buy a CF when you're planning to play Messi as one?

Because Madrid went signing Ronaldo and Kaka? Barca didn't want to be out done.

But really I don't think Guardiola knew what he was getting into with Ibra and you're crediting him for his inability to adapt?

 

[acmilan4ever]

15 - In 15 attempts, no team has ever qualified in the Champions League knockout stage after losing the first leg 0-2. Over

http://twitter.com/#!/optajoe

 

[Calum1903]

I tend to agree and bring Valencia on in the second half. His direct attacking play could hurt Barca...

I would start both, I think. Valencia's got everything I would want in a player to face Barcelona - pace, work rate, stamina and a real threat on the break.

 

[MilanMB]

messi wasnt playing as a CF last season when Ibra was playing, its only this season he moved to CF.

I like Villa alot, considering hes playing as a LW for the first time in his club career, hes doing pretty well, id imagine ibra would have flopped badly if he played as a LW.


in the CL, i would pick villa over ibra every single time.

I like Villa as well and he'd probably much more if he wasn't playing with Messi who never passes him the ball when he's in position

Ibra would never be able to play LW, hence Villa being the better player at adapting.

But like I said before, I think this is the Villa we're going to see for the rest of his career.

Not sure it was planned, Messi got more room the second half of the season. And performed so good in that role that the team where more and more built to fit him. Even though Messi was awesome the year before it as well, its easy to forget his development and role in the team is pretty new still.

I really think it was... he was cutting in from the left more and more lasr season.

 

[Ash]

Because Madrid went signing Ronaldo and Kaka? Barca didn't want to be out done.

But really I don't think Guardiola knew what he was getting into with Ibra and you're crediting him for his inability to adapt?

I think he felt that Barca need someone tall and physical in the box to put the balls in. What he didnt consider was that Ibra was the typical anti Barca player. He is just not the type of player you can play a fluid quick passing game with. Plus, Ibra likes to be a focal point in his team and as far as I can see, Barca dont play with a single player as a focal point.

That being said, I can see someone like Llorente doing well at Barca....

 

[Wild]

Cruyff first came up with the idea of Barcelona's 4-3-3 in which they try to dominate possession, this was the philosophy of the club and at the time Guardiola was playing the Xavi role in midfield.

Then came Rijkaard and played the 4-3-3 as well but with some changes. Yet he was the one who gave players like Iniesta and Messi their first chance with the first team.

Then came Guardiola and added his touches as well. What I meant was that Barcelona have been playing this way for years, but with a slightly different tactical systems. Yet the idea was the same. Even Cruyff and Guardiola said so.

What made it easier for Guardiola is that even the youth teams practice the same style of play, and that's why it was easy for him to integrate many youth team players into the first team. That's why he was even hired for the first team in the first place, because he coached the youth and could continue the "Barca philosophy" and take Cruyff's then Rijkaard's method to the next level.

They're just updated versions. So in a way Guardiola reaped a little bit some rewards from Rijkaard's and Cruyff's teams, especially Rijkaard who many people credit for planting the seeds for the current Barcelona. While on the other hand Mourinho has had to create a new side from scratch that has been underachieving since forever, and just got thumped 5-0 by Barcelona not too long ago, yet he made them compete with Barca and even beat them in the cup final.

I'd like to see Guardiola with a different team. And I think Mourinho and his team don't get enough praise. Barcelona's team took years to build yet Mourinho and his Real proved to be more than a match for them.

Cruyff didnt create a possession team.
He was more direct/attacking & used a total football tactic with Koeman as the focal point.
Milan schooled him with the possession game & raped Barca 4-0.
Rayk was a motivator than anything else so he shouldnt be mentioned next to Guard who introduced a new kind of football.
Playing piggy with teams denying them from playing was never used with such success.
Playing with no actual striker & no DMs in a time when ALL teams use two & three & still conceding few goals while scoring for fun is all due to Guard's brilliance.
He lost Eto'o which was a big mistake but he was able to go around it.
I also want Guard to change team but no matter what will happen he will always be remembered as a pioneer for introducing a new philosophy.
4-3-3 is actually irrelevant coz the formation mean shit next to tactics & positioning & how you approach the game.
Mou remain a better tactician which isnt a shame for Guard.
The latter didnt just build a team , he built a unique team that is only matched by Milan of the 90's.

 

[MilanMB]

Because Madrid went signing Ronaldo and Kaka? Barca didn't want to be out done.

But really I don't think Guardiola knew what he was getting into with Ibra and you're crediting him for his inability to adapt?

true true...

if Ibra was willing to adapt he wouldn't be playing in Milan now.

 

[acmilan4ever]

I would start both, I think. Valencia's got everything I would want in a player to face Barcelona - pace, work rate, stamina and a real threat on the break.

Problem is that that 4.4.2 wont do well against Barca imo, I think SAF will need to deploy a 3 man mid. I can see it being Park/Anderson..Carrick..Fletcher and then you've got Rooney, Chica [most potent weapon against the likes of Barca] and Nani/Valencia. I will be a tough choice for SAF but i think he will go with Valencia but im suggesting to keep him on the bench and unleash him in second half. He has a better chance of impact than Nani coming off the bench imo.

 

[manutd fan]

Man Utd. would need to start Nani, surely? It's a one-off game.

Nah, I don't think so. Valencia and Park on the wings.

Carrick shouldn't start, maybe even play Park central? He's hardly going to get out muscled

ot good enough with the ball. He's a headless chicken, but he can play in a 3 man midfield, but not as the creative player. He played there against Milan and had Pirlo in his pocket. We might see Rooney on the left with Par central, but Carrick would still play.

Agreed about Scholes and i think Fletcher will be one of the protagonists of your midfield so i hope for you hes fully ready for it.

I also agree about Valencia being better defensively but his pacey, direct attacking play can be used better if he came off the bench, just a thought.

Rooney i think would struggle against Barca in that role because 1) he likes to get the ball there and start the attacks, which he wont because they might not have enough of the ball and 2) in accordance to reason 1, if they dont have the ball than he can grow as frustrated as Scholes and dish out a bad tackle. I think you may need Park or Anderson to start there instead of Rooney and play him out wide on the left. I've seen him cross many times before from that side and Chica is a good header of the ball as well.

Nevertheless it will be an interesting final, just hope that both teams have fully fit and available squads.

I think playing Rooney on the left was one of the reasons we lost in 09. Apparently Barca were scared of United before the match. No one thought they'd win and you could tell they had nerves at the start of the match. We should have put Ronaldo on the right because they had Serginho at LB I think, and Rooney or Tevez up top.

Tactics against Barcelona are huge, so any suspensions would hurt us more than it would Barcelona, unless say we had O'Shea out whilst they were missing Xavi. In 09 us not Fletcher was must worse than Barca not having Abidal and Alvez. What's the weakness of having a weaker defence if your opponenets are never going to have the ball near your box?

Another idea could be to have Valencia through the middle with Nani and Park on the wings.

 

[Casualista]

Vila is most definitely better than zlatan. I would say their skill level is the same, he has a far superior work rate, better adaptation and one of the most important quality of all a great temperament. Somthing which zlatan lacks. U would rarely see vila disappearing or putting his shoulders down if things aren't going his way. 100% commitment.

 

[dev1L]

!

 

[DugiNesta]

This man is the best player in the world. And let's everybody kneel to him.

 

[Kalac#16]

Problem is that that 4.4.2 wont do well against Barca imo, I think SAF will need to deploy a 3 man mid. I can see it being Park/Anderson..Carrick..Fletcher and then you've got Rooney, Chica [most potent weapon against the likes of Barca] and Nani/Valencia. I will be a tough choice for SAF but i think he will go with Valencia but im suggesting to keep him on the bench and unleash him in second half. He has a better chance of impact than Nani coming off the bench imo.

I just wouldn't play Hernandez, Rooney is a shite winger. If he plays both Rooney will be basically a CM, it's the only way that can work.

 

[Calum1903]

Cruyff didnt create a possession team.
He was more direct/attacking & used a total football tactic with Koeman as the focal point.

I actually think Cruijff would disapprove of quite a lot of what this Barcelona side do. Did he not criticise van Gaal for telling his players to dribble less and pass more?

 

[vB9]

"Guardiola is a fantastic coach, but he won a Champions League which would shame me, with the Stamford Bridge scandal. This year, if he wins it, it will be the Bernabeu scandal."

Personally I think that quote is more shameful. More so when u see how he won with Inter.

 

[Sage]

cruyff is an annoying clueless arrogant son of a bitch

 

[Pedro]

cruyff is an annoying clueless arrogant son of a bitch

 

[Kalac#16]

cruyff is an annoying clueless arrogant son of a bitch

It seems all football's greats are, Pele, Maradona etc. Crap players make great managers.

 

[Fiero]

Cruyff didnt create a possession team.
He was more direct/attacking & used a total football tactic with Koeman as the focal point.
Milan schooled him with the possession game & raped Barca 4-0.
Rayk was a motivator than anything else so he shouldnt be mentioned next to Guard who introduced a new kind of football.
Playing piggy with teams denying them from playing was never used with such success.
Playing with no actual striker & no DMs in a time when ALL teams use two & three & still conceding few goals while scoring for fun is all due to Guard's brilliance.
He lost Eto'o which was a big mistake but he was able to go around it.
I also want Guard to change team but no matter what will happen he will always be remembered as a pioneer for introducing a new philosophy.
4-3-3 is actually irrelevant coz the formation mean shit next to tactics & positioning & how you approach the game.
Mou remain a better tactician which isnt a shame for Guard.
The latter didnt just build a team , he built a unique team that is only matched by Milan of the 90's.

Fair enough.

My point though was that Mourinho and his Real Madrid aren't given enough credit imo. Guardiola is in his 3rd season with this Barcelona, and before that coached the youth team for 2 years which included many players who are involved with the first team now like Busquetes, Pedro, etc...

He created an effective system that has won them shit load of games/trophies, yet Mourinho created a system after 29th November (the date of the 5-0) that is able to stop Barcelona or at least compete with them. And it wasn't a one off since they drew La Liga game with 10 men, they won the cup final, and today they lost after Pepe was red carded.

I'd respect Barcelona's achievements more if they didn't get them with the help of the ref. And I'd respect Barcelona's players/team/fans more if the players didn't dive and moan/surround the ref at every moment, while their fans (mostly gloryhunters) are arrogant as fuck. Also, they're very bad losers.

 

[Calum1903]

cruyff is an annoying clueless arrogant son of a bitch

Cruijff and Sacchi are both great minds who've suffered from the same syndrome since leaving the game. Shame.

 

[manutd fan]

Technically Mourinho is right.

Cruijff and Sacchi are both great minds who've suffered from the same syndrome since leaving the game. Shame.

Wenger has begun suffering from that same syndrome

 

[Pedro]

It seems all football's greats are, Pele, Maradona etc. Crap players make great managers.

Don't forget Franz Beckenbauer and Uli Hoeneß.