3rd/4th place: Brazil - The Netherlands - Saturday 12/07/2014 22:00 CEST

[AC_Wesley]

BRAZIL VS THE NETHERLANDS

Brazil: Jefferson (Botafogo), Julio Cesar (Toronto), Victor (Atletico Mineiro), Dante (Bayern München), David Luiz (Chelsea), Henrique (Napoli), Thiago Silva (Paris Saint-Germain), Dani Alves (Barcelona), Maicon (AS Roma), Marcelo (Real Madrid), Maxwell (Paris Saint-Germain), Fernandinho (Manchester City), Hernanes (Internazionale), Luiz Gustavo (VfL Wolfsburg), Oscar (Chelsea), Paulinho (Tottenham Hotspur), Ramires (Chelsea), Willian (Chelsea), Bernard (Sjachtar Donetsk), Fred (Fluminense), Hulk (Zenit Sint-Petersburg), Jô (Atletico Mineiro) Neymar (Barcelona).

The Netherlands: Daley Blind (Ajax), Jasper Cillessen (Ajax), Jordy Clasie (Feyenoord), Memphis Depay (PSV), Leroy Fer (Norwich City), Jonathan De Guzman (Swansea City), Klaas Jan Huntelaar (Schalke 04), Daryl Janmaat (Feyenoord), Nigel de Jong (AC Milan), Terence Kongolo (Feyenoord), Tim Krul (Newcastle United), Dirk Kuijt (Fenerbahçe), Jeremain Lens (Dinamo Kiev), Bruno Martins Indi (Feyenoord), Robin van Persie (Manchester United), Arjen Robben (Bayern München), Wesley Sneijder (Galatasaray), Joël Veltman (Ajax), Paul Verhaegh (FC Augsburg), Ron Vlaar (Aston Villa), Michel Vorm (Swansea City), Stefan de Vrij (Feyenoord), Georginio Wijnaldum (PSV).

Official match page

 

[Jasper]

Rest de Jong, let Thiago Silva leave the tournament unbeaten

 

[derpu]

surely the true final



lol

 

[luke07]

tim krul to play as striker

 

[ezekiel2517]

tim krul to play as striker

David Luiz too

 

[Redman10]

I think the Brazilian are done mentally.

 

[ladro]

Never understood the point for 3rd place matches.

Although im excited for this one since i want to see fred in action one last time.

 

[joyrider]

Never understood the point for 3rd place matches.

Although im excited for this one since i want to see fred in action one last time.

ever heard of the bronz medal

 

[ladro]

Never until now.

http://www.theguardian.com/football...tearful-neymar-recalls-foul-wheelchair-brazil

Poor neymar. I wish him a nice bronze medal to feel proud off.

 

[leaf]

Never understood the point for 3rd place matches.

Although im excited for this one since i want to see fred in action one last time.

I think ppl need to STFU about Fred
The guy has been very very consistent
For instance did you know that Fred equalled Ronaldo's '02 consistency record?
There was only one match Ron had different to the rest (England)
The same goes for Fred (Cameroon). Fuck off haters

 

[Senatore_M84]

Fred's gonna fred. A pro's pro, who does some things really well, with certain limitations. You will never accuse him of being lazy or not giving his all. Those type of players I can never truly criticize.

It's not his fault Pato is a premadonna, Adriano is a drug addict.

It's not his fault Oscar is a child, Neymar is in many respects one too, an god knows how many big time u20 players over last 10 years flamed out drunk on their own hype.


If you wanna blame anyone for brazil's failure blame brazil FA. Look at way their top youth is treated v. Germany. Brazil still produces most talented players around age of 18 per anywhere in the world. Now some young talents will flame out ANYWHERE, it's just life, but brazil has done an awful job grooming and keeping them grounded. FA and club owners just see them as ATMs for sponsorships and sales

Neymar with all his hype and special treatment from 17 on is 10000% the exception. Most of the prized ones continue to follow route of ganso, pato etc.

 

[leaf]

Fred's gonna fred. A pro's pro, who does some things really well, with certain limitations. You will never accuse him of being lazy or not giving his all. Those type of players I can never truly criticize.

It's not his fault Pato is a premadonna, Adriano is a drug addict.

It's not his fault Oscar is a child, Neymar is in many respects one too, an god knows how many big time u20 players over last 10 years flamed out drunk on their own hype.


If you wanna blame anyone for brazil's failure blame brazil FA. Look at way their top youth is treated v. Germany. Brazil still produces most talented players around age of 18 per anywhere in the world. Now some young talents will flame out ANYWHERE, it's just life, but brazil has done an awful job grooming and keeping them grounded. FA and club owners just see them as ATMs for sponsorships and sales

Neymar with all his hype and special treatment from 17 on is 10000% the exception. Most of the prized ones continue to follow route of ganso, pato etc.

This is why a coach needs to have good man management skills as well as tactics (Scolari showed neither this campaign )

A good man manager will get the players considered "lazier" to perform better. They don't always have to be the "one of the guys" type like Ancelotti. They can be strict cunts like Mourinho and Capello (See Robinho under Capello).

You can be how hardworking you want there is absolutely no subsitute for natural talent. Harnessing that talent is also a talent. You can hate Pato all you want....I bet anything that he would have been INFINITELY better than Fred.

 

[Senatore_M84]

This is why a coach needs to have good man management skills as well as tactics (Scolari showed neither this campaign )

A good man manager will get the players considered "lazier" to perform better. They don't always have to be the "one of the guys" type like Ancelotti. They can be strict cunts like Mourinho and Capello (See Robinho under Capello).

You can be how hardworking you want there is absolutely no subsitute for natural talent. Harnessing that talent is also a talent. You can hate Pato all you want....I bet anything that he would have been INFINITELY better than Fred.

Two major problems with what you're saying....

1. Pato isn't perofmring in brazil and subject to same criticism he was in italy
2. International coaches don't have the time to work w/ players the way club ones do.

My issue wasn't attitude persay as much as all these premadonna talents don't develop or are content where they are. Same place they were at 18 which wouldnt beat germany anyway.

MY problem is mentality of them which differs from players of past.

BTW, Even ancelotti dropped dinho etc.

 

[leaf]

[/B]


Two major problems with what you're saying....

1. Pato isn't perofmring in brazil and subject to same criticism he was in italy
2. International coaches don't have the time to work w/ players the way club ones do.

My issue wasn't attitude persay as much as all these premadonna talents don't develop or are content where they are. Same place they were at 18 which wouldnt beat germany anyway.

MY problem is mentality of them which differs from players of past.

BTW, Even ancelotti dropped dinho etc.

There was a coach of Trinidad...professor Rene Simoes that said that he coached Ronaldinho as a child and he had the same mentality that eventually led to his fall from grace even as a child....but at the time he was able to show the boy the VALUE of hardwork and perfecting his skills. This comes back to what I'm saying about the manager.

If you get one to SHOW the players how successful they can be if they develop a bit more...then half your work is done. In a way what I'm saying is the other side of the same coin that you are using.

The problem is that money is getting to be such a problem for so many that previously had none before. They mistakenly think that because they can afford a Mercedes now that they've made it when they haven't done shit....but they're not LOST. They just need the right guidance.

A BIG reason behind Neymar's success and Adriano's fall is the influence of their family

 

[Rickaka]

You can be how hardworking you want there is absolutely no subsitute for natural talent. Harnessing that talent is also a talent.

Just like there is absolutely no substitute for hard work.

Klose.

 

[crazy4milan]

Although his surroundings can affect the a player, it is up to him to thrive. You can't expect it to be the coach's fault, there's different coaches, the player has to find his own motivations.

Natural talent is nothing if you don't put your effort; the problem with brazilian football is that it has become obsessed witih glorifying that "natural talent" (which is a terrible term, because it only focuses on having skills in the attacking side of football) ahead of hard working. You can have both. Dinho till before he got it all, yes relied a lot on his skills, but he worked his ass off to get there, he had the thrive, he wanted to win. Even more so the case with Ronaldo, specially after his knee injury, he still was out there proving he was the best. After achieving everything (or almost everything), they relied on their skills than hardworking, which were good enough to win some games, but eventually became more of a hidrance. But they did achieve their potential, and they weren't put at the top of the world TILL they have proven to very much be the best in the world.

The problem after those two is that Brazil created a couple or more of possibly WC forward talents, they were offered the world before they did anything of REAL relevance. They realized they could conquered everything without putting effort. The the world was at their hands without them being nothing but brazilian football players who at 17 were named best talents and were in top teams in Europe.

 

[leaf]

Just like there is absolutely no substitute for hard work.

Klose.

lel....one will become a footnote in football history and one will be remembered as Il Fenomeno

ppl still remember Maradonna and Pele even though Fontaine scored more in the world cup. Heck neither even won a CL.

Although his surroundings can affect the a player, it is up to him to thrive. You can't expect it to be the coach's fault, there's different coaches, the player has to find his own motivations.

Natural talent is nothing if you don't put your effort; the problem with brazilian football is that it has become obsessed witih glorifying that "natural talent" (which is a terrible term, because it only focuses on having skills in the attacking side of football) ahead of hard working. You can have both. Dinho till before he got it all, yes relied a lot on his skills, but he worked his ass off to get there, he had the thrive, he wanted to win. Even more so the case with Ronaldo, specially after his knee injury, he still was out there proving he was the best. After achieving everything (or almost everything), they relied on their skills than hardworking, which were good enough to win some games, but eventually became more of a hidrance. But they did achieve their potential, and they weren't put at the top of the world TILL they have proven to very much be the best in the world.

The problem after those two is that Brazil created a couple or more of possibly WC forward talents, they were offered the world before they did anything of REAL relevance. They realized they could conquered everything without putting effort. The the world was at their hands without them being nothing but brazilian football players who at 17 were named best talents and were in top teams in Europe.

 

[Benz_1803]

Pato
R9 and inzaghi combined...

 

[Senatore_M84]

There was a coach of Trinidad...professor Rene Simoes that said that he coached Ronaldinho as a child and he had the same mentality that eventually led to his fall from grace even as a child....but at the time he was able to show the boy the VALUE of hardwork and perfecting his skills. This comes back to what I'm saying about the manager.

If you get one to SHOW the players how successful they can be if they develop a bit more...then half your work is done. In a way what I'm saying is the other side of the same coin that you are using.

The problem is that money is getting to be such a problem for so many that previously had none before. They mistakenly think that because they can afford a Mercedes now that they've made it when they haven't done shit....but they're not LOST. They just need the right guidance.

A BIG reason behind Neymar's success and Adriano's fall is the influence of their family

of course this is a systemic global problem w/ athletics. You see it in NBA. for ever Lebron/Durant you have michael Beasley, Rashard Mccants etc.

My bigger point is, Brazil since Ronaldo hit global fame, has basically turned it's FA over to sponsors and do not act in best interest of the players. Only in interest of getting paid.

Neymar's an exception and from what i can see the type of kid who's motivated to be best regardless. And really those who reach it are that way. To a degree Dinho and Ronaldo were too. They hit top and just stopped carrying (In ronaldo's case the injuries have a toll to point where you start considering 'ive done it all, and do i wanna risk not being able to walk as an old man?' so i don't really blame them)


MY issue goes even beyond pato and ganso. It goes to the 100s of kids who star in u20 competition and are sold to eastern europe or whereever to really not be heard of again. My point is there's no reason Brazil shouldn't be like Germany, but the infrastructure is not there. Perhaps this embarassment will force them to do what germany did 10-12 years ago

 

[Senatore_M84]

lel....one will become a footnote in football history and one will be remembered as Il Fenomeno

ppl still remember Maradonna and Pele even though Fontaine scored more in the world cup. Heck neither even won a CL.

klose will be viewed as a legend in germany tho the same way say pippo is in italy but perhaps not beyond it (just picking random example)


as for your second point. I'm curious if that's down to era.

As we go further and UCL is such a global thing, i mean Cristiano will go down as an all time great with no international relevance.

 

[leaf]

of course this is a systemic global problem w/ athletics. You see it in NBA. for ever Lebron/Durant you have michael Beasley, Rashard Mccants etc.

My bigger point is, Brazil since Ronaldo hit global fame, has basically turned it's FA over to sponsors and do not act in best interest of the players. Only in interest of getting paid.

Neymar's an exception and from what i can see the type of kid who's motivated to be best regardless. And really those who reach it are that way. To a degree Dinho and Ronaldo were too. They hit top and just stopped carrying (In ronaldo's case the injuries have a toll to point where you start considering 'ive done it all, and do i wanna risk not being able to walk as an old man?' so i don't really blame them)


MY issue goes even beyond pato and ganso. It goes to the 100s of kids who star in u20 competition and are sold to eastern europe or whereever to really not be heard of again. My point is there's no reason Brazil shouldn't be like Germany, but the infrastructure is not there. Perhaps this embarassment will force them to do what germany did 10-12 years ago

Especially the bold part. The WASTE of talent and ability is sad

klose will be viewed as a legend in germany tho the same way say pippo is in italy but perhaps not beyond it (just picking random example)


as for your second point. I'm curious if that's down to era.

As we go further and UCL is such a global thing, i mean Cristiano will go down as an all time great with no international relevance.

As you rightly said...at MOST he will be a German legend (let's hope they remember him after Muller SLAUGHTERS his record ).

Ronaldo will always be a fantasy player that excited and entertained as well as performed. Ronaldo will be remembered for his iconic games (Manchester United, Beating Maldini, Shitting all over Nesta in the UEFA Cup, both world cup finals (the one he choked in AND the one he scored twice in)).

At the end of the day titles are important but a player's emotional connection with the fans reigns supreme. I'm not Italian but I'm hoping that they have more love for Maldini with his 0 World Cups and his heroics than for Materazzi or Grosso etc.

 

[Senatore_M84]

Especially the bold part. The WASTE of talent and ability is sad


As you rightly said...at MOST he will be a German legend (let's hope they remember him after Muller SLAUGHTERS his record ).

Ronaldo will always be a fantasy player that excited and entertained as well as performed. Ronaldo will be remembered for his iconic games (Manchester United, Beating Maldini, Shitting all over Nesta in the UEFA Cup, both world cup finals (the one he choked in AND the one he scored twice in)).

At the end of the day titles are important but a player's emotional connection with the fans reigns supreme. I'm not Italian but I'm hoping that they have more love for Maldini with his 0 World Cups and his heroics than for Materazzi or Grosso etc.

w/ regards to maldini, he's viewed among greatest defenders ever.

But i don't think he's viewed like beckenbaur globally which is fair. But in general, defenders do not get that 'love'. As for 2006, heck i almost forgot those two. Everyone will think to cannavaro, buffon, gattuso, pirlo for that team

 

[Sven]

Brazil need a change of paradigm in coaching. And for that to happen, the league need to be more open to foreign ideas. I would seriously consider a foreign coach for Seleção.

Just think about how many coaches Brazil exported lately... It's zero. Compare to Argentina with a lot less resources.

Also, foreign coaches here can't make simply cause no one accept change. There's a few coaches with modern ideas, but still not enough and Brazil is getting behind on that aspect.

Opening spot for non-Brazilian players from 3 to 5 was a good start. More need more.

 

[luke07]

all nike final

yet they play with brazuca

 

[luke07]

Jo starting

 

[jammin]

Sooo... no fucks to be given for this?

 

[necromancer]

Disappointing lineup by the Dutch. I had expected the likes of Depay to start.

 

[KujaIX]

Clearly outside the box.

Lul. Gave Silva a yellow because of it probably.

 

[jammin]

Yea Thiago Silva completely changes this defense.

 

[Casualista]

Outside the box but clear red.

Lulz where is this unsophisticated ref from.