Clarence Seedorf Thread

[MilanMB]

he is disgustingly inconsistent.

On pure quality, he's a complete midfielder. And on his day, he's at least one of the top 3 midfielders in the world. The issue is that a) how often does that happen? And b) when he's off he's utter shit.

He just comes off a tad too selfish for my taste. I can't like a player who picks up his game only when it suits him. Sometimes on the pitch it looks as if he doesn't even care.

It was never a question of quality, but one of attitude. Seedorf's quality is insane. It's extremely rare to find a player with his intelligence, technique, and physical attributes. He's got the whole package.

+1

 

[MilanMB]

First of all you have to get it out of your head that players "love the shirt". There are hardly any bandieri left anymore. I don't see what's wrong with Ibrahimovic as football is his job, he gets paid to play for the club. Would you be called a mercenary if you left your job and took another one?

Yeah for sure Seedorf currently loves Milan as he's spent nearly 10 years with the club, but don't stretch it as far as "his love for the shirt is priceless", it's not like he used to sleep in Milan pyjamas as a kid. It's funny that you dislike Ibra and call him a mercenary, yet think that Seedorf is some kind of a die-hard Milan ultra. Didn't Seedorf play for Milano's weaker team as well?

Football's a job, players move clubs. No biggie. Anyway me saying he's selfish doesn't mean he doesn't care about Milan, it only means he cares about himself more, IMO. I could even use your words as a proof; "this guy's hunger for success has no limits" - this statement is 100% dead on and I agree with it, and that explains the tears after Spurs game as well. At the time it looked like he wasn't going to be offered a new contract so it was most likely his last hurrah at another Champions League. Remember what happened after that? Bam, bang-able form from Seedorf till the end of the season, helping Milan complete the Serie A job and earning a new contract in the process. Even though he was ranging from average to bad all the season until February. Moral of the story? He is extremely interested in accolades and trophies, but doesn't bother much with the week-in, week-out process. That's not meant to belittle him, but it's one of the reasons I have little affection towards him.

Remember the trophyless seasons, how was he performing during these years? It's just blatanly obvious to me that he raises his game against big opponents or when there's a trophy at stake. When the team is stuck in mediocricty or struggling he saves his energy, but when Milan are close to winning a trophy he puts on his A game. On the positive side, it's great that he's fired up to give Milan the edge vs strong opponents or at the last steps towards winning a trophy, but the rest of the season he's just mostly a burden on the other 10 players.

Anyway I don't see where this is going as you won't make me like him and I won't make you like him less. Despite that, I've enjoyed this debate. The truth is probably somewhere in between.

also +1

 

[Jivara]

Whatever

 

[Madridista]

Whats the disagreement here? I think the point of both camps is that he should be on the bench more often.

 

[Shevagool]

Some people dont get the thing with nice artwork, while other does.
Pirlo and Seedorf is pure art!



Just look at this. And he did it on purpose, dont say anything else.

Then we can discuss if he should be a starter this year or not but dont talk shit about a true Milan-legend! Thats really disrespectful.

 

[Madridista]

lets not involve Pirlo into this

 

[Dark Knight]

You have very good taste in footballers Jivara Clarence and Pirlo, Mozart and beethoven of football

Dont steal from my sig

 

[MilanMB]

Whats the disagreement here? I think the point of both camps is that he should be on the bench more often.

Nope.

IMO he should have been kicked out after the last CL win.

 

[luke07]

Nope.

IMO he should have been kicked out after the last CL win.

you are using kick term cause of his ass?

just guessing

 

[Charbel]

Nope.

IMO he should have been kicked out after the last CL win.

There's one thing money can't always buy, and that's a great atmosphere. Seedorf has helped A LOT @ Milanello, and that's one great reason to keep him in the team. I've read a lot of interviews in which players (ex-or present) say how much Clarence helped them @ Milan and all. That's a very important part of football, and it's not like he sucks. He's been pretty good bar a few games, which brings me to the next point. He needs to accept being a bench player, and help rest Aquilani every now and then.

 

[MilanMB]

There's one thing money can't always buy, and that's a great atmosphere. Seedorf has helped A LOT @ Milanello, and that's one great reason to keep him in the team. I've read a lot of interviews in which players (ex-or present) say how much Clarence helped them @ Milan and all. That's a very important part of football, and it's not like he sucks. He's been pretty good bar a few games, which brings me to the next point. He needs to accept being a bench player, and help rest Aquilani every now and then.

Yeah yeah, atmosphere bla bla. We've had like a zillion senatores the last years, and he's the worst of them on the pitch. I think we can spare him. This atmosphere thing is becoming like a broken record. I wonder how all other clubs manages without Seedorf or our other oldies... And just because he's good for the atmosphere, doesn't mean that the replacement won't be.

He's been pretty shit bar a few games. That's my take on it.

Read Fiero's posts. It's because of players like Seedorf, Milan only won 1 scudetto in 10 years. For a club like Milan, that's a disaster. If you can't bother showing up for an away game against Parma and any other small team at a sunday afternoon to bring home 3 important points then don't show up at all.

 

[Charbel]

Yeah yeah, atmosphere bla bla. We've had like a zillion senatores the last years, and he's the worst of them on the pitch. I think we can spare him. This atmosphere thing is becoming like a broken record. I wonder how all other clubs manages without Seedorf or our other oldies... And just because he's good for the atmosphere, doesn't mean that the replacement won't be.

He's been pretty shit bar a few games. That's my take on it.

Read Fiero's posts. It's because of players like Seedorf, Milan only won 1 scudetto in 10 years. For a club like Milan, that's a disaster. If you can't bother showing up for an away game against Parma and any other small team at a sunday afternoon to bring home 3 important points then don't show up at all.

We can spare him? Yep, if we are gonna keep Gennaro or Ambrosini - so go ahead and pick. It's definitely dumb to let the 3 of them leave, and extending for one is a MUST. I'm not saying there's no life after Clarence ( of course there is), but keeping him or one of the Senatores is a must. You don't rejuvenate by kicking all of your Senatores out, it's ridiculous.

When a player under-performs, and isn't punished for it, and he keeps under performing ....it's not his fault it's the coach's fault for keeping him in the squad. You need to shake the players every once in a while, that didn't happen with Clarence. This is like people hating on Antonini & co, it's not their fault Milan haven't found adequate replacements for the likes of Maldini ...and whenever they are in they give 100% - that's for sure.

So, you're telling me ...@ a cold night @ Stoke you'd prefer anyone other than Clarence? Bullocks.

 

[MilanMB]

We can spare him? Yep, if we are gonna keep Gennaro or Ambrosini - so go ahead and pick. It's definitely dumb to let the 3 of them leave, and extending for one is a MUST. I'm not saying there's no life after Clarence ( of course there is), but keeping him or one of the Senatores is a must. You don't rejuvenate by kicking all of your Senatores out, it's ridiculous.

When a player under-performs, and isn't punished for it, and he keeps under performing ....it's not his fault it's the coach's fault for keeping him in the squad. You need to shake the players every once in a while, that didn't happen with Clarence. This is like people hating on Antonini & co, it's not their fault Milan haven't found adequate replacements for the likes of Maldini ...and whenever they are in they give 100% - that's for sure.

So, you're telling me ...@ a cold night @ Stoke you'd prefer anyone other than Clarence? Bullocks.

What the fuck are you talking about, Charbel?

You're saying that even now you want us to phase them one by one? That would be OK 4-5 years ago. But now they all HAVE TO GET OUT. We need hungry replacements for these unmotivated bastards. I don't know what I will do if Ambro and Seedorf stays for another year. Even Gattuso should go.

I have mad respect for what Pirlo did. He said that he needed a change of air to get back to his best, and left. There's no difference between Pirlo and Ambro + Seedorf. They've been as unmotivated as him for the last 4-5 years.

But I'm not really bashing the players for staying. That's the clubs "fault".

I'm discussing the fact that Seedorf (and Ambro's) contribution on the field throughout the years is very overrated by Milan fans, especially Seedorf's.

 

[Australiano1980]

For sure.. some players are accommodated in the club.

 

[Sage]

Galliani says, " I don't judge a player by age, I judge him by talent" now if no one knew what happens at Milan, people would agree with that, but the fact that he would recruit a talented player even if he's 100 years old is what bothers every who is not a retirement home fan.

 

[Charbel]

What the fuck are you talking about, Charbel?

You're saying that even now you want us to phase them one by one? That would be OK 4-5 years ago. But now they all HAVE TO GET OUT. We need hungry replacements for these unmotivated bastards. I don't know what I will do if Ambro and Seedorf stays for another year. Even Gattuso should go.

I have mad respect for what Pirlo did. He said that he needed a change of air to get back to his best, and left. There's no difference between Pirlo and Ambro + Seedorf. They've been as unmotivated as him for the last 4-5 years.

But I'm not really bashing the players for staying. That's the clubs "fault".

I'm discussing the fact that Seedorf (and Ambro's) contribution on the field throughout the years is very overrated by Milan fans, especially Seedorf's.

Nope, what I'm saying is I want at least one of those to retire @ Milan. Knowing that won't be Seedorf most probably, I'd love if Gattuso stays.

Exactly, the club's fault.

Well, I've never really given Clarence credit for all that, so that won't be me [ and I know you don't mean me ] . Ambro? A few members only defend him on the forum, and even them would acknowledge that he's not the Ambro that was before.

 

[Dravidian]

What the fuck are you talking about, Charbel?

You're saying that even now you want us to phase them one by one? That would be OK 4-5 years ago. But now they all HAVE TO GET OUT. We need hungry replacements for these unmotivated bastards. I don't know what I will do if Ambro and Seedorf stays for another year. Even Gattuso should go.

I have mad respect for what Pirlo did. He said that he needed a change of air to get back to his best, and left. There's no difference between Pirlo and Ambro + Seedorf. They've been as unmotivated as him for the last 4-5 years.

But I'm not really bashing the players for staying. That's the clubs "fault".

I'm discussing the fact that Seedorf (and Ambro's) contribution on the field throughout the years is very overrated by Milan fans, especially Seedorf's.

As of now, Ambro doesn't even have a starting spot. He didn't even make any demands at the time of contract renewal. So I doubt he wil be that big a burden financially or team dynamics wise.

Dorf & Gatt may not agree to such terms as Ambro. Ideally, both should be inducted into the backroom staff.

Btw after Sheva left, until recently, Ambro was the only Milan player with a decent header - Maldini & Nesta had already started showing signs of aging in aerial battles. Ambro never really had a specific strength (not sure about his youth days though), but was decent in most departments. Though his tackling now leaves a lot to be desired. He mistimes them too often these day.

 

[Ash]

Nope, what I'm saying is I want at least one of those to retire @ Milan. Knowing that won't be Seedorf most probably, I'd love if Gattuso stays.

Exactly, the club's fault.

Well, I've never really given Clarence credit for all that, so that won't be me [ and I know you don't mean me ] . Ambro? A few members only defend him on the forum, and even them would acknowledge that he's not the Ambro that was before.

Fact is - NONE of them have any plans to retire whatsoever and it's killing us

They ALL want to stay at Milan as long as possible and play till they are 40 just like Pippo and Maldini.

Difference is - they are NOT them but don't seem to realize it. Even Pippo should have retired a while back....

It's nice and all to say that the senatores should retire at the club, but when they don't seem to want to retire, the club should continue to suffer?

Atleast guys like Zidane and Figo had the class to give up the game even when they were in form (atleast Zizou was). They knew that they reached their peak and continuing any longer would hurt their legendary status....

Seedorf on the other hand has already pretty much screwed up his legend at Milan by overstaying....

 

[Senatore_M84]

Seedorf on the other hand has already pretty much screwed up his legend at Milan by overstaying....

Seedorf's been better last 2 years than he was the previous 2. But that's not his fault (see below)

But Milan's problems have less to do with senatore and more to do with upper management/coaching.

All the senator's can still play a role (except maybe Pippo, he might be totally done), but it's in the context of a team. Players physically decline in their mid 30s. Cover less ground. If they are in a team which makes up for it, less of an issue.

ex.- Nesta and Silva. Nesta's still a class defender, but reality is, not as fast as he was at 26. Seedorf can claim same thing in midfield. When you play like 4 of them at once and in same quadrant of field, you got problems.

Heck look at Pirlo, he's not any different than he was at milan, but damn, they got such an active mobile team, his lack of mobility is not as big an issue as it is when he's in a 3 man with ambrosini and seedorf.

-

Basically what i'm saying is prudent management is the key.

Older players NEED to take smaller contracts or leave. Seedorf took a big pay cut, Pirlo left. It's ok to me that way. Pirlo couldn't really be given 3 years considering his physique and injuries piling up.

Second aspect is making sure we have players coming thru who are young. You didn't see man utd playing giggs, scholes together very often if ever last 3 years? Why? Because they'd get run over physically. Both could still play at highgest levels but reality is, they needed some compensating.


--

The club needs to make it clear... as they age they can expect a smaller role, and because of that, smaller contracts. If they don't accept it, they can leave like pirlo did. No problems there.

--
The same way you can't expect everyone to play till 40 like maldini.... you can't expect every player to be physically fit like he's in his mid 20s tilll he's 37 like Maldini. Maldini was a freak physically, he didn't show age until basically 37 years old, about 5 years past your normal player, but he was still good his last 3 years after that just like senators are now. If utilized correctly.

 

[Danilo JBG]

I think Seedorf is still an important squad member. He is too inconsistent, but I still see him as a must start at big games. If he's kept fresh, his age may not affect his game so much in single matches.

 

[Fiero]

There's one thing money can't always buy, and that's a great atmosphere. Seedorf has helped A LOT @ Milanello, and that's one great reason to keep him in the team. I've read a lot of interviews in which players (ex-or present) say how much Clarence helped them @ Milan and all. That's a very important part of football, and it's not like he sucks. He's been pretty good bar a few games, which brings me to the next point. He needs to accept being a bench player, and help rest Aquilani every now and then.

I agree with the point even though I think it's exaggerated. Experience and charisma are needed in the locker room and Seedorf has that in abundance, he's one smooth talker for sure. Just wanted to mention a funny anecdote from Ancelotti's book - When Seedorf first joined he had many problems with a lot of players in the team because he was acting like a 'know it all' guy telling them how to do stuff; Rui and Kaladze especially hated his guts.

Carletto said he couldn't fix it at first but by time they warmed up to him and then they realized he really was just trying to help. When Rui returned with Benfica Seedorf was joking with him etc.

I think it lasted more than a season IIRC.

 

[acm55]

grande goal

 

[Shevagool]

Maestro

 

[Blade of Faith]

 

[acm55]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1wfP9oHNZk

the goal

 

[squaresolid]

the pics:

 

[joyrider]

great goal, but aging badly, he should retire while he's till on top

 

[Interfanatic]

Seedorf: 'Tevez follows the money'
By Football Italia staff

Clarence Seedorf says Carlos Tevez “will go where they can promise him the most money,” so probably not Milan.

The striker agreed personal terms with the Rossoneri, but Paris Saint-Germain have moved ahead in the race by offering €30m to Manchester City.

“Looking back at his career, his agents and every move he has ever made, I think Tevez will go where they can promise him the most money,” Seedorf told Sky Sport Italia.

“Milan would be the first time in his life that he has chosen a club for his career rather than the money. We’ll see what happens.”

Meanwhile, Seedorf also commented on the handling offence that was not spotted by the referee in today’s 2-2 draw with Bologna.

“The referee was just 10 metres away. From the television footage, it looks like a penalty, but I know the ball struck me on the shoulder.”

He sounds very enthusiastic at the prospect of Tevez joining you. When a player of Seedorf's stature makes a statement like that surely it has to mean something...

 

[Ash]

He sounds very enthusiastic at the prospect of Tevez joining you. When a player of Seedorf's stature makes a statement like that surely it has to mean something...

ok

 

[Dottore Joey]

Jesus Holy mother of god, his ass...